How much would you offer Devers?

[redsoxrules]

Disagree. Devers had more extra base hits at age 22 than anyone in MLB history except Joe DiMaggio.

 

He needs to be signed this winter or he's gone. I heard on MLB radio that in the past dozen years, only one free agent "star" has re-signed with his own team: Cespides in 2016. The last guy before that was Matt Holliday in '09 (Stanton's mega was an extension).

 

Obviously as he had his best year at age 22.

 

He had 90 extra base hits that season. He hasn't sniff that since

[mvp 78]

Obviously as he had his best year at age 22.

 

He had 90 extra base hits that season. He hasn't sniff that since

 

So is that his ceiling? Not what he did in 2022 or 2021?

[Hugh2]

Imagine being the one guy against signing a 26 year old Rafael Devers

[redsoxrules]

Can anyone show me a list of total WAR since 2018 by MLB players. I can't seem to find a chart that I can play with that. I'm curious where Devers stands in this list

[redsoxrules]

Imagine being the one guy against signing a 26 year old Rafael Devers

 

I'm not against it. I'm just saying he's not a 300 Mil player from what I've seen from him so far

[redsoxrules]

So is that his ceiling? Not what he did in 2022 or 2021?

 

That was his best year for extra base hits

[moonslav59]

Can anyone show me a list of total WAR since 2018 by MLB players. I can't seem to find a chart that I can play with that. I'm curious where Devers stands in this list

 

Devers is 25th:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

He's 28th since 2020.

 

Since 2021

 

13. Bogey 10.4

14. Betts 10.4

22. Devers 9.1

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Can anyone show me a list of total WAR since 2018 by MLB players. I can't seem to find a chart that I can play with that. I'm curious where Devers stands in this list

 

He made the Top 40 -- Mookie is 1st, Judge 2nd, Trout 3rd... I can't seem to duplicate the chart I found, but the only younger players than Devers with more WAR are Soto and Acuna.

 

(bb-ref, since 2018)

[redsoxrules]

I find different site has different WAR numbers. So what one to believe? That's one reason I don't like advance metrics. It's not even accurate amongst the different site

[mvp 78]

Can anyone show me a list of total WAR since 2018 by MLB players. I can't seem to find a chart that I can play with that. I'm curious where Devers stands in this list

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2018-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=22,d

 

You can go to the Leaders section on FanGraphs and chose multiple seasons. I'm not sure how to do it on BRef.

[mvp 78]

I find different site has different WAR numbers. So what one to believe? That's one reason I don't like advance metrics. It's not even accurate amongst the different site

 

There's just two. I think Topps uses bWAR on the back of their cards, but I find that site less intuitive to use so I just use FanGraphs now. Neither system is infallible.

[mvp 78]

Per FanGraphs:

Betts is 1st

Xander is 14th

Devers is 25th

 

Harper was 24th and Stanton was 99th.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That was his best year for extra base hits

 

XBH since 2018:

1. Ramirez

2. Betts

3. Arenado

4. Freeman

5. Devers... tied with JD

 

... everyone in the top 25 is 28 or older except Raffy.

[redsoxrules]

Devers is 25th:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

He's 28th since 2020.

 

Since 2021

 

13. Bogey 10.4

14. Betts 10.4

22. Devers 9.1

 

 

Interesting list. How many of these 25 players have a 300+ Million contract that's above him in this list? Don't get me wrong. It's good production to be number 25 since 2018 but based on who is above him is he really a 300 million dollar man? Matt Chapman is above him in this list. Just goes to show you how defense can make an impact. Something Devers lacks of.

 

I want him to stay on the team but there's got to be a limit and IMO it should be below 300.

He's going to be a DH sometime down the road. So you have to factor that in.

[mvp 78]

Interesting list. How many of these 25 players have a 300+ Million contract that's above him in this list? Don't get me wrong. It's good production to be number 25 since 2018 but based on who is above him is he really a 300 million dollar man? Matt Chapman is above him in this list. Just goes to show you how defense can make an impact. Something Devers lacks of.

 

I want him to stay on the team but there's got to be a limit and IMO it should be below 300.

He's going to be a DH sometime down the road. So you have to factor that in.

 

1. Betts

2. Trout

3. Judge soon to be

5. Lindor

7. Turner soon to be?

10. Machado

24. Harper

37. Seager

99. Stanton

[vjcsmoke]

Give Devers what it takes. He's clearly our best player right now. Or will the Red Sox dump yet another STAR homegrown talent for pennies on the dollars?

 

Hey Bloom, why don't you trade a perennial all-star for a replacement level chump again? Sounds like Bloom's MO. He traded away Mookie Betts for Verdugo and a pupu platter of prospects who haven't panned out. Wow he's really smelling like roses with that move! What masterstroke will he come up next to DUMP more talent from the Red Sox? I wasn't aware a GM's goal should be to make a team end up with less talent than they started with when he first took over!

[vjcsmoke]

Devers is 25th:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

He's 28th since 2020.

 

Since 2021

 

13. Bogey 10.4

14. Betts 10.4

22. Devers 9.1

 

 

Get ready to say goodbye to all THREE of those if Bloom continues his usual MO.

 

Let's keep DUMPING players who produce 9-10 WAR per season. It's been a real WINNING strategy so far, Mr. Bloom!! SMH

[moonslav59]

Get ready to say goodbye to all THREE of those if Bloom continues his usual MO.

 

Let's keep DUMPING players who produce 9-10 WAR per season. It's been a real WINNING strategy so far, Mr. Bloom!! SMH

 

You really think Bloom chose to "dump" Betts?

 

He was told what to do.

 

Bogey is not worth what he'll get. Kudos to Bloom for not grossly overpaying Bogey. If we lose Bogey of a couple million, then I'm jumping on your bandwagon.

 

Devers Forevers is my motto.

[mvp 78]

Give Devers what it takes. He's clearly our best player right now. Or will the Red Sox dump yet another STAR homegrown talent for pennies on the dollars?

 

Hey Bloom, why don't you trade a perennial all-star for a replacement level chump again? Sounds like Bloom's MO. He traded away Mookie Betts for Verdugo and a pupu platter of prospects who haven't panned out. Wow he's really smelling like roses with that move! What masterstroke will he come up next to DUMP more talent from the Red Sox? I wasn't aware a GM's goal should be to make a team end up with less talent than they started with when he first took over!

 

They will most likely just offer a QO next offseason and get a comp pick after trying to be competitive this season.

[mvp 78]

Get ready to say goodbye to all THREE of those if Bloom continues his usual MO.

 

Let's keep DUMPING players who produce 9-10 WAR per season. It's been a real WINNING strategy so far, Mr. Bloom!! SMH

 

To me, I'll give him the rest of the offseason to figure it out. If the Sox struggle this year, he needs to go no matter what. Even if the Sox farm system is #1 (it isn't), the MLB team needs to be relatively competitive.

[mvp 78]

You really think Bloom chose to "dump" Betts?

 

He was told what to do.

 

Bogey is not worth what he'll get. Kudos to Bloom for not grossly overpaying Bogey. If we lose Bogey of a couple million, then I'm jumping on your bandwagon.

 

Devers Forevers is my motto.

 

We assume he was told, we really have no idea. Hard to parse out who in particular was at fault. At some point, it's JH, Bloom, BOH, Sam, everyone...

[notin]

You really think Bloom chose to "dump" Betts?

 

He was told what to do.

 

Bogey is not worth what he'll get. Kudos to Bloom for not grossly overpaying Bogey. If we lose Bogey of a couple million, then I'm jumping on your bandwagon.

 

Devers Forevers is my motto.

 

The Sox lost Betts when Dombrowski signed Sale.

 

Bogaerts is a tough call for me, since the bat plays, but the glove doesn’t, and the player refuses to change positions (so far). If some team gives Bogaerts $216mill over 8, the Sox probably dodged a bullet…

Edited December 5, 2022 by notin

[mvp 78]

I think 27x6 is a fair deal, Sox should stretch to 27x7 to match, but 27x8 they should pass on. I'm trying not to get too worked up until a final number comes out.

[moonslav59]

To me, I'll give him the rest of the offseason to figure it out. If the Sox struggle this year, he needs to go no matter what. Even if the Sox farm system is #1 (it isn't), the MLB team needs to be relatively competitive.

 

I'm pretty sure they all sat down to come to a consensus, but I think the starting point was that a massive budget cut had to happen. They probably worked our scenarios where they kept Betts and somehow dumped Price and maybe someone else, or cut the pre-2020 winter spending budget in half or more, but I seriously doubt Bloom made the final call. He may have been on the side of trading Betts rather than not filling 5-6 holes with a tighter winter spending budget than he already had.

 

Remember the 2020 roster and how thinly spread the $40M he had to spend created a pretty weak team.

 

Now, one could easily say, in hindsight, I'd rather have Betts at $29M budget cost than $10M Richards, $6M Perez and then trade Beni ($3.5M), Pillar ($4.2M)and a couple other guys over the winter, instead of that deadline, but we stayed under in 2021, too, so who don't we sign before that season?

 

I just think it is plain wrong to blame Bloom for the Betts trade.

[moonslav59]

I think 27x6 is a fair deal, Sox should stretch to 27x7 to match, but 27x8 they should pass on. I'm trying not to get too worked up until a final number comes out.

 

Sounds about right, but I think the AAV should drop, at least slightly, for every year added, even if just $27M x 6, $26.5M x 7 or $25.75M x 8.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox lost Betts when Dombrowski signed Sale.

 

Dombrowski signed Sale when they couldn't sign Betts at the price they wanted.

 

That makes 1000% more sense.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Dombrowski signed Sale when they couldn't sign Betts at the price they wanted.

 

That makes 1000% more sense.

 

I have to agree. Mookie was the star of that Dombrowski run, and Dave was smart enough to make extending him through his prime the priority.

[moonslav59]

Dombrowski signed Sale when they couldn't sign Betts at the price they wanted.

 

That makes 1000% more sense.

 

And even if these choices were flipped, it's not on Bloom.

 

Bloom was handed Sale, Betts, Bogey, Nate and JD's contracts (also Pedey and Castillo's non tax budget $14.2M) and told to cut the budget. No way will I ever believe he chose to cut the budget or had a choice to spend significantly more.

[mvp 78]

Remember the 2020 roster and how thinly spread the $40M he had to spend created a pretty weak team.

 

3 Peraza

23 JD

11 JBJ

6 Perez

 

40M

 

30 Sale (YUCK)

13 Pedroia (DOUBLE YUCK)

 

80M in toilet water.

[mvp 78]

I just think it is plain wrong to blame Bloom for the Betts trade.

 

You can blame him for the return.