How much would you offer Devers?

[Bellhorn04]

The thing I'll always wonder is what Henry's limit was with Betts. I'm guessing it was $350 or $360, the same as he got from the Dodgers. It'll always be a mystery why those negotiations went nowhere.

[moonslav59]

The thing I'll always wonder is what Henry's limit was with Betts. I'm guessing it was $350 or $360, the same as he got from the Dodgers. It'll always be a mystery why those negotiations went nowhere.

 

I'm thinking Henry wanted to reset the tax for 1-3 years and felt a mega Betts deal would hamper acquiring a competitive team to play around the big 3. I don't think he wanted to go much above $300M. He might have also thought signing Betts meant saying good bye to Bogey and Devers, yet here we are talking aout that, anyway.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm thinking Henry wanted to reset the tax for 1-3 years and felt a mega Betts deal would hamper acquiring a competitive team to play around the big 3. I don't think he wanted to go much above $300M. He might have also thought signing Betts meant saying good bye to Bogey and Devers, yet here we are talking aout that, anyway.

 

Bogey's contract situation is a reminder that opt-outs RARELY work in favor of the team.

[mvp 78]

I'm thinking Henry wanted to reset the tax for 1-3 years and felt a mega Betts deal would hamper acquiring a competitive team to play around the big 3. I don't think he wanted to go much above $300M. He might have also thought signing Betts meant saying good bye to Bogey and Devers, yet here we are talking aout that, anyway.

 

Why did he need to reset for 3 years?

[mvp 78]

Bogey's contract situation is a reminder that opt-outs RARELY work in favor of the team.

 

Did the Sox have an opt out?

[notin]

Bogey's contract situation is a reminder that opt-outs RARELY work in favor of the team.

 

Disagree.

 

If not for the opt out, perhaps Bogaerts leavers after 2019 as a free agent instead of playing here for the last 2+ seasons at $20mill.

 

Without the opt out, it might have taken a lot more to sign Bogaerts. Perhaps more than the Sox we’re willing/able to spend…

[Old Red]

Disagree.

 

If not for the opt out, perhaps Bogaerts leavers after 2019 as a free agent instead of playing here for the last 2+ seasons at $20mill.

 

Without the opt out, it might have taken a lot more to sign Bogaerts. Perhaps more than the Sox we’re willing/able to spend…

 

Perhaps if the Red Sox had signed Bogey for 6/25 at the time with no opt outs it would have been a lot easier in the long run.

[bkzwhitestrican]

He'll probably get something along the lines of what Lindor got. I'd say 10 yr/$350M

[moonslav59]

Why did he need to reset for 3 years?

 

I said 1-3 years. Had we not did so well in 2021, we might have stayed under this year, too. IMO

[moonslav59]

Perhaps if the Red Sox had signed Bogey for 6/25 at the time with no opt outs it would have been a lot easier in the long run.

 

I’m not sure that would have been enough, but yes.

[redsoxrules]

He'll probably get something along the lines of what Lindor got. I'd say 10 yr/$350M

 

I wouldn't go that far. Lindor was a few years younger and had better career avg. Also better defender. At his age I'd say 250 max

[Bellhorn04]

Why did he need to reset for 3 years?

 

I will never believe they traded Betts just to reset. I think the main reason was to get something for him.

[Bellhorn04]

Disagree.

 

If not for the opt out, perhaps Bogaerts leavers after 2019 as a free agent instead of playing here for the last 2+ seasons at $20mill.

 

Without the opt out, it might have taken a lot more to sign Bogaerts. Perhaps more than the Sox we’re willing/able to spend…

 

Yes, the opt-out can certainly be a factor in signing the player, so from that perspective they can have value.

 

But down the road, they're not good for the team...

[Old Red]

I will never believe they traded Betts just to reset. I think the main reason was to get something for him.

 

If the contract offer was true by the Red Sox of $300M, and Mookie’s counter offer was $400M+ then I think at that point the Red Sox did not want to go any higher then the trade came into play. I’ve always had the opinion that Mookie was not going to resign in Boston anyways.

[Bellhorn04]

If the contract offer was true by the Red Sox of $300M, and Mookie’s counter offer was $400M+ then I think at that point the Red Sox did not want to go any higher then the trade came into play. I’ve always had the opinion that Mookie was not going to resign in Boston anyways.

 

Mookie went on record to say he came close to accepting an earlier extension offer, but his mother essentially talked him out of it...

[mvp 78]

Mookie went on record to say he came close to accepting an earlier extension offer, but his mother essentially talked him out of it...

 

Smart lady. She had her eyes on the prize.

[Old Red]

Mookie went on record to say he came close to accepting an earlier extension offer, but his mother essentially talked him out of it...

 

Did she want him to go to the Dodgers?

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't go that far. Lindor was a few years younger and had better career avg. Also better defender. At his age I'd say 250 max

 

I may be getting my math wrong (again), but Lindor was 27 when traded to the Mets. They extended him that April (2021), when he was 27.

 

Devers is 25. We could extend him now or at the end of the season at age 25. He turns 26 in October. He'll be 27 next October- the same age as Lindor, when he was extended.

[moonslav59]

I will never believe they traded Betts just to reset. I think the main reason was to get something for him.

 

I think both factors sealed the deal.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Lindor and Devers aren't good comparisons at all.

 

Lindor plays the more important position, and was the best all-around shortstop in baseball; not even any of last winter's Big Five SSs could match his three straight Top-10 MVP finishes, especially at ages 22-24. He also won two Gold Gloves.

 

A better comp is hot cornerman Anthony Rendon. But Devers still has a ways to go before he even matches Rendon's three Top-6 MVP finishes; Rafey has yet to break a Top-10...

[redsoxrules]

I may be getting my math wrong (again), but Lindor was 27 when traded to the Mets. They extended him that April (2021), when he was 27.

 

Devers is 25. We could extend him now or at the end of the season at age 25. He turns 26 in October. He'll be 27 next October- the same age as Lindor, when he was extended.

 

That comment was in reference to Bogey, not Devers

[moonslav59]

Lindor and Devers aren't good comparisons at all.

 

Lindor plays the more important position, and was the best all-around shortstop in baseball; not even any of last winter's Big Five SSs could match his three straight Top-10 MVP finishes, especially at ages 22-24. He also won two Gold Gloves.

 

A better comp is hot cornerman Anthony Rendon. But Devers still has a ways to go before he even matches Rendon's three Top-6 MVP finishes; Rafey has yet to break a Top-10...

 

Rendon did have a top 6 MVP year at age 24, but his others were at ages 27 & 29.

 

Devers started in the igs at age 20, and he came up through the system playing against pitchers much older than him. His break out year was at age 22 (2019) when he hit .916. Rendon's was at age 24, but his OPS was only .824. He then hit .765 the next 2 seasons combined at ages 25 & 26)

 

If you comp their corresponding age numbers (Ages 23-25):

 

.768 Rendon

.882 Devers

 

I know you mentioned Devers has "yet to break" the top 6, he's not yet 27. He has a .895 OPS since 2019.

 

It should be noted, Rendon was superb from ages 27-30 (.949 OPS), but he has dropped off the last 2 years: .724 from 2021 to 2022 (just 414 PAs). He's at .791 since 2020. At his age, that's amazing.

 

TOPS OPS since 2019

1.072 Trout

.981 Soto

.965 Tatis

.959 Harper

.943 Alvarez

.937 Judge

.937 Freeman

.928 Springer

.924 Acuna

.903 Betts

.900 Rendon

.898 Cruz

.895 Devers

 

He's a top 5 generational talent, and his defense is improving.

[moonslav59]

That comment was in reference to Bogey, not Devers

 

Ah. That makes sense.

 

I thought you were responding to BZ's comment on Devers getting $350M/10.

[notin]

Perhaps if the Red Sox had signed Bogey for 6/25 at the time with no opt outs it would have been a lot easier in the long run.

 

Probably. But as Bogaerts was one year from free agency at the time, I’m surprised he signed anything at all…

[Bellhorn04]

Probably. But as Bogaerts was one year from free agency at the time, I’m surprised he signed anything at all…

 

I guess $120 mill guaranteed with an opt-out after 3 years wasn't so bad.

[moonslav59]

Probably. But as Bogaerts was one year from free agency at the time, I’m surprised he signed anything at all…

 

I was, too, and I think it shows he wanted to stay here.

 

With the Story signing and the low ball offer, maybe not anymore.

 

Isn't there a thread on Bogey?

[dgalehouse]

The question is , are the Sox willing to get in a bidding war with teams like the Dodgers , Mets or maybe even the Yanks to sign Devers ? There has not been any indication that they are. It is a fact that the teams that spend big to obtain the best players are the teams that win. ( I do know that there are exceptions to this so please don't point that out to me. ) One other thing , the ever expanding playoff format certainly gives an opportunity for a less talented team to get hot or just lucky in the post season.

[Maxbialystock]

The question is , are the Sox willing to get in a bidding war with teams like the Dodgers , Mets or maybe even the Yanks to sign Devers ? There has not been any indication that they are. It is a fact that the teams that spend big to obtain the best players are the teams that win. ( I do know that there are exceptions to this so please don't point that out to me. ) One other thing , the ever expanding playoff format certainly gives an opportunity for a less talented team to get hot or just lucky in the post season.

 

The Sox have spent big and won the most WS--four--in MLB during the John Henry era. But I don't think they've indulged in bidding wars to keep players. Indeed, lots of players have left the Sox for bigger bucks elsewhere.

 

I completely disagree that spending big for one great player changes things because you need 9 good bats/fielders and about a thousand good arms to go all the way. The Phillies signed Bryce Harper for $330M and are no better with him than they were without him.

 

I do, however, recognize the "star power" of the best players. Fans want to see them play. Right now that certainly applies to Devers, who is terrific fun to watch despite that humungous wad of chewing tobacco. Bryce Harper, I hasten to add, has increased attendance for the Phillies, so paying him $330M may have been smart.

 

I do not think paying Devers $330M or $350M would be worth it, but that decision belongs to Bloom and JH.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Rendon did have a top 6 MVP year at age 24, but his others were at ages 27 & 29.

 

Devers started in the igs at age 20, and he came up through the system playing against pitchers much older than him. His break out year was at age 22 (2019) when he hit .916. Rendon's was at age 24, but his OPS was only .824. He then hit .765 the next 2 seasons combined at ages 25 & 26)

 

If you comp their corresponding age numbers (Ages 23-25):

 

.768 Rendon

.882 Devers

 

I know you mentioned Devers has "yet to break" the top 6, he's not yet 27. He has a .895 OPS since 2019.

 

It should be noted, Rendon was superb from ages 27-30 (.949 OPS), but he has dropped off the last 2 years: .724 from 2021 to 2022 (just 414 PAs). He's at .791 since 2020. At his age, that's amazing.

 

TOPS OPS since 2019

1.072 Trout

.981 Soto

.965 Tatis

.959 Harper

.943 Alvarez

.937 Judge

.937 Freeman

.928 Springer

.924 Acuna

.903 Betts

.900 Rendon

.898 Cruz

.895 Devers

 

He's a top 5 generational talent, and his defense is improving.

 

OPS just isn't the end-all, be-all magic stat for me when comparing ballplayers.

 

How about five of six years of at least 4.5 WAR for Rendon? Devers has had one.

 

Granted, Rafey will be younger when he signs his big free agent contract. But one could also argue that Rendon was more established by actual accomplishments.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox have spent big and won the most WS--four--in MLB during the John Henry era. But I don't think they've indulged in bidding wars to keep players. Indeed, lots of players have left the Sox for bigger bucks elsewhere.

 

Exactly. How can we knock Henry's modus operandi when we have the most titles since he bought the team?

 

We have 4, the Yankees have 1, the Dodgers have 1.