Fire Bloom .

[notin]

In the end , results are what matters. Try cashing a losing ticket at the track by explaining why it is your horse lost. It doesn't work.

 

So why do you think the 2019 losing ticket was cashable but the 2022 losing ticket was not?

 

The 2019 team did drop 24 games in the standings. Even the 2022 team didn’t do that…

[moonslav59]

I went with “could” because If Dombrowski wasn’t allowed to go higher - and he reportedly went pretty high - do people think Bloom was allowed to?

 

The word "would was fine," but so would the words "should have" (even if allowed to.)

[Old Red]

Baseball is not horse racing or a lottery ticket.

 

It's complex, and oversimplifying everything to wins and losses is a very narrow view.

 

Could DD have won a ring with the Sox with massive budget cuts to the 2019 team and just $40M to spend in 2020 and 2021 and just Houck as help from the farm?

 

You know that answer, but you cling to W-L records as all there is to a GM's report card.

 

WL record is a narrow view? Wow! WL record is what gets you to where you want to go, which is making it into the postseason unlike this year that it got you into the basement of the Div. WL record in the now to me is most important. Not what may happen two years from now. I think we’ve been down this road many times before, and I don’t believe anyone has changed their mine yet, or WL.

[dgalehouse]

Baseball is not horse racing or a lottery ticket.

 

It's complex, and oversimplifying everything to wins and losses is a very narrow view.

 

Could DD have won a ring with the Sox with massive budget cuts to the 2019 team and just $40M to spend in 2020 and 2021 and just Houck as help from the farm?

 

You know that answer, but you cling to W-L records as all there is to a GM's report card.

 

Winning or losing is what it is all about. It is literally why they play the games .

[moonslav59]

Winning or losing is what it is all about. It is literally why they play the games .

 

Of course, but is it the Gm's fault the Pirates suck?

 

Of course, not.

[moonslav59]

WL record is a narrow view? Wow! WL record is what gets you to where you want to go, which is making it into the postseason unlike this year that it got you into the basement of the Div. WL record in the now to me is most important. Not what may happen two years from now. I think we’ve been down this road many times before, and I don’t believe anyone has changed their mine yet, or WL.

 

Yes, most certainly, when evaluating a GM under the circumstances Bloom has been under, looking at only the W-L records is extremely narrow.

 

That's not saying wins and losses are meaningless. Not at all.

 

Yes, narrow as narrow can be when anyone uses just one criteria. How much narrower can it get?

 

[Old Red]

Yes, most certainly, when evaluating a GM under the circumstances Bloom has been under, looking at only the W-L records is extremely narrow.

 

That's not saying wins and losses are meaningless. Not at all.

 

Yes, narrow as narrow can be when anyone uses just one criteria. How much narrower can it get?

 

 

That’s a way to look at it, but to me WL record is the most important, and that’s how I choose to look at it. I get it that you are part of the Bloom cheering squad with the old Bloom, Bloom he’s our man, and if he can’t do it no one can, but as Lee Corso would say Not So Fast! Poor poor Bloom to be under what you call circumstances that he is under. It sounds like to me he’s not up to the job.

[mvp 78]

Last would could be "should."

 

Also, no Mookie trade- no Price savings either.

 

Doesn’t matter. Price is off the books now.

[Old Red]

Of course, but is it the Gm's fault the Pirates suck?

 

Of course, not.

 

Are you comparing Pittsburg, and the Pirates to Red Sox Nation, and the Red Sox?

[moonslav59]

Are you comparing Pittsburg, and the Pirates to Red Sox Nation, and the Red Sox?

 

No. I'm pointing out a case where the GM has nothing to do with wins and losses.

 

I said nothing about them being compared to the Sox.

[moonslav59]

Doesn’t matter. Price is off the books now.

 

We are talking about the restraints Bloom had in the 3 years with the Sox, and Price's contract was part of that.

 

No longer, is true- same with JD and Nate. The Sale deal is the only one left.

 

DD had his HRams and Pablos, so it's not totally unbalanced, but the budget cut from 2019 to 2020 was massive, and we have yet to come close to that $236M of 2019.

[Bellhorn04]

We are talking about the restraints Bloom had in the 3 years with the Sox, and Price's contract was part of that.

 

No longer, is true- same with JD and Nate. The Sale deal is the only one left.

 

DD had his HRams and Pablos, so it's not totally unbalanced, but the budget cut from 2019 to 2020 was massive, and we have yet to come close to that $236M of 2019.

 

The 2022 payroll was very close to $236M.

[Hugh2]

Winning or losing is what it is all about. It is literally why they play the games .

 

Yes, but the people who pay the bills are in it to turn a profit.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, but the people who pay the bills are in it to turn a profit.

 

Yeah, the reality is that in pro sports they play the games to entertain people and make money.

 

It's fans who do most of the caring about wins and losses.

[mvp 78]

Yes, but the people who pay the bills are in it to turn a profit.

 

Owners get about $110M just from tv rights before they even open the gates to the stadium. With NESN, the Sox haul in far more than that. The Sox are definitely not hurting for cash. If there weren't restrictions on going over the luxury tax, I think the Sox payroll would be much higher compared to other teams.

[moonslav59]

The 2022 payroll was very close to $236M.

 

$206M is "VERY" close?

 

It's basically a Mookie away.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, the reality is that in pro sports they play the games to entertain people and make money.

 

It's fans who do most of the caring about wins and losses.

 

And they probably didn't dump JD, Eovaldi and others at the deadline as they saw a negative impact on the cash flow in 2012 and 2014 when they did something similar. Maybe that's why they half assed it?

[moonslav59]

Owners get about $110M just from tv rights before they even open the gates to the stadium. With NESN, the Sox haul in far more than that. The Sox are definitely not hurting for cash. If there weren't restrictions on going over the luxury tax, I think the Sox payroll would be much higher compared to other teams.

 

We already have a much higher payroll compared to most other teams, but I agree. Paying a hefty tax plus all the draft and bonus pool penalties discourage the Sox from spending like LAD.

[Bellhorn04]

$206M is "VERY" close?

 

It's basically a Mookie away.

 

I thought we were talking payroll for tax purposes. That's what we usually go by.

 

Tax payrolls:

 

2019 243.6

2022 234.5

 

2022 is 3-4% lower.

[Bellhorn04]

And they probably didn't dump JD, Eovaldi and others at the deadline as they saw a negative impact on the cash flow in 2012 and 2014 when they did something similar. Maybe that's why they half assed it?

 

That's close enough to the truth. I still maintain they did the right thing not pulling the plug, because they thought getting Sale and other guys back might give them a shot at the playoffs. But I can understand the argument against that too.

[Hugh2]

Owners get about $110M just from tv rights before they even open the gates to the stadium. With NESN, the Sox haul in far more than that. The Sox are definitely not hurting for cash. If there weren't restrictions on going over the luxury tax, I think the Sox payroll would be much higher compared to other teams.

 

But they lose revenue sharing for staying above the tax line for extended periods of time, that's hundreds of millions a year.

 

They're not hurting for cash, because they don't do that. If any of us were on the other side, our mentality would change too.

[Hugh2]

That's close enough to the truth. I still maintain they did the right thing not pulling the plug, because they thought getting Sale and other guys back might give them a shot at the playoffs. But I can understand the argument against that too.

 

They kind of did the same thing in 2021, Sale was coming back after the deadline. They were also getting Story back, and Kike back as well. They went on a run in 2021....it worked. It didn't this time.

[mvp 78]

We already have a much higher payroll compared to most other teams, but I agree. Paying a hefty tax plus all the draft and bonus pool penalties discourage the Sox from spending like LAD.

 

I'm not talking about being in 6th place where they are now, but up where the Mets are.

[Bellhorn04]

They kind of did the same thing in 2021, Sale was coming back after the deadline. They were also getting Story back, and Kike back as well. They went on a run in 2021....it worked. It didn't this time.

 

That's the way I see it.

 

And the more teams they let in the playoffs, the more a .500 team at the deadline still has a shot.

[mvp 78]

That's close enough to the truth. I still maintain they did the right thing not pulling the plug, because they thought getting Sale and other guys back might give them a shot at the playoffs. But I can understand the argument against that too.

 

Well, I was obviously right because I wanted a fire sale even before the season started.

 

They shouldn't have been a below .500 team though.

[mvp 78]

That's the way I see it.

 

And the more teams they let in the playoffs, the more a .500 team at the deadline still has a shot.

 

Yuck.

[mvp 78]

They kind of did the same thing in 2021, Sale was coming back after the deadline. They were also getting Story back, and Kike back as well. They went on a run in 2021....it worked. It didn't this time.

 

In 2021, weren't they already in 1st place. In 2022, they were well out of contention.

[mvp 78]

But they lose revenue sharing for staying above the tax line for extended periods of time, that's hundreds of millions a year.

 

They're not hurting for cash, because they don't do that. If any of us were on the other side, our mentality would change too.

 

Yeah, that's why my last sentence was "If there weren't restrictions on going over the luxury tax, I think the Sox payroll would be much higher compared to other teams."

[Bellhorn04]

Yuck.

 

The ascent of mediocrity actually goes back a ways.

 

2000 champs: 87-74 reg season

2006 champs: 83-78 reg season

[Bellhorn04]

In 2021, weren't they already in 1st place. In 2022, they were well out of contention.

 

The 2022 team was 3 games out of a Wild Card spot at the deadline. It's not unreasonable to think you can make that up in 2 months with so many guys expected back from the IL.