Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

This is the most likely scenario posted so far today.

 

I love Duran turning singles into doubles, but not those of opposing batters. Because of the latter, he's also not going to fetch a good young pitcher, unless he's part of a multi-player trade.

 

Let's say we can get a solid young pitcher with no injury history for one of these two packages, which do you choose?

 

Mayer, Drohan and Hickey

 

or

 

Rafaela, Wikelman, Perales and Romero

[Bellhorn04]

If Duvall and Turner leave (likely!), our primary RHH power bar is Story, followed by Urias…

 

Very grim.

[Randy Red Sox]

Let's say we can get a solid young pitcher with no injury history for one of these two packages, which do you choose?

 

Mayer, Drohan and Hickey

 

or

 

Rafaela, Wikelman, Perales and Romero

 

Neither of those. The first name in each group should be pretty much untouchable unless we are getting a young Pedro is return. Draft and develop our own like we are doing with Bello. 4 yrs of Chaim and we don’t have a single guy like that in the system

[Randy Red Sox]

I’d deal Duran for pitching. Free agent starting pitching is a poor investment…

 

 

We would need to include another good prospect with Duran to get a quality SP. he’s not really that young anymore

[moonslav59]

Neither of those. The first name in each group should be pretty much untouchable unless we are getting a young Pedro is return. Draft and develop our own like we are doing with Bello. 4 yrs of Chaim and we don’t have a single guy like that in the system

 

That could be a long wait, and you have not shown much patience with waiting.

 

BTW, how do you know we don't have another Bello in our system, right now?

 

In April 2024, Bello was barely ranked ahead of Groome, Mata and Walter. Despite being signed in 2017, he didn't crack the SPs top 20 list, in spring 2021 (9 other pitchers did), and Houck was ahead of him. It took Bello 4 seasons and 5 years to make it to AAA, yet you bash Bloom for not having any prospects ready in less than 4 years.

 

In spring 2020 he was 19th, behind Mata 3, Groome 4, Houck 8, Song 9, Ward 11, Zef 13, Also 14, Murphy 16. How can you be so sure Wikelman 9, Perales 7, E R-C 19 or Mata 18 can't improve and move up like Belo?

 

Granted, guys like Drohan, Murphy and Walter are long shots, but we have some other long shots showing some real promise, like

Gambrell

Monegro

I Coffey

Dobbins, Rogers, Bastardo, Liu, Paez

[moonslav59]

Neither of those. The first name in each group should be pretty much untouchable unless we are getting a young Pedro is return. Draft and develop our own like we are doing with Bello. 4 yrs of Chaim and we don’t have a single guy like that in the system

 

A young Pedro was not all that highly regarded.

[Maxbialystock]

Very grim.

 

Not grim at all. I've been reading talksox and learning a lot, and it's pretty clear hitting is vastly overrated. As long as we get some good defensive guys in, the Sox will be fine.

 

Defense is the name of the game and neither of those guys--Duvall, Turner-- are much good at it. We should also dump Duran and Casas who both have negative DWAR's.

[moonslav59]

We would need to include another good prospect with Duran to get a quality SP. he’s not really that young anymore

 

I think with Duran as the headliner, we'd have to add York, Perales and maybe Wikleman, too or someone like Hickey or Romero..

[moonslav59]

Not grim at all. I've been reading talksox and learning a lot, and it's pretty clear hitting is vastly overrated. As long as we get some good defensive guys in, the Sox will be fine.

 

Defense is the name of the game and neither of those guys are much good at it.

 

Max, nobody is saying hitting doesn't matter or that defense is more important. Some just think you are minimizing the impact our poor D has had on the team.

 

Inconsisten hitting and poor D have mattered more, for sure, but just average D, and we'd be tied with TOR or TEx. I'm convinced.

[mvp 78]

A young Pedro was not all that highly regarded.

 

Per his bbref page, he was ranked 10th by Baseball America before 1992.

[moonslav59]

Per his bbref page, he was ranked 10th by Baseball America before 1992.

 

I thought we were talking about what it would take to trade for a Young Pedro, like we did back in fall '97 (Armas Jr & Pavano were no slouches, for sure,

[Duran Is The Man]

A young Pedro was not all that highly regarded.

 

really? i remember watching him pitch in the minors and to me, it was very obvious he was going to be a star.

[moonslav59]

really? i remember watching him pitch in the minors and to me, it was very obvious he was going to be a star.

 

He did have some nasty stuff, but so did Houck and so do Mata, Perales, Wikelman and maybe Monegro.

 

It took him years to be ranked, though, and more years to be ranked top 10.

[dgalehouse]

The most disappointing guys were the ones who were hyped to be the " next Pedro " .

[moonslav59]

The most disappointing guys were the ones who were hyped to be the " next Pedro " .

 

Like who?

 

Owens? LOL.

Casey Kelly?

Espinoza was highly toutted.

[Randy Red Sox]

A young Pedro was not all that highly regarded.

 

Are you kidding me ?

[Randy Red Sox]

I think with Duran as the headliner, we'd have to add York, Perales and maybe Wikleman, too or someone like Hickey or Romero..

 

Yorke and Duran are not getting a TOP young SP. Yorke is a dime a dozen on the market.

[Randy Red Sox]

Like who?

 

Owens? LOL.

Casey Kelly?

Espinoza was highly toutted.

 

Owens was a total flop. Espinoza could have been a stud if not for TJ. Pedro was real high on him.. bottom line is no one’s is giving up a top pitching prospect without a HUGE return.

[moonslav59]

Are you kidding me ?

 

People said he was too skinny and small to ever be a durable SP'er, but he had a great season before the trade.

 

Armas and Pavano were both good prospects, but I'm not sure they were great prospects. I think Pavano was. I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong.

Edited September 1, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Owens was a total flop. Espinoza could have been a stud if not for TJ. Pedro was real high on him.. bottom line is no one’s is giving up a top pitching prospect without a HUGE return.

 

My point was asking what Sox pitcher was "hyped as the next Pedro."

 

BTW, I'm not suggesting we trade for a pitching prospect. I'm thinking someone proven and has 3-4 years fo team control. Maybe 2, if we can extend him.

 

Yes, that will take a "haul," too but Mayer is a good start to a package.

 

Duran and Perales or Wikelman might be a good start, too.

 

Rafaela and Yorke plus some second tiers...

 

You don't think that's not a good enough start? Add Hickey and Murphy/Walter...

 

The Castillo deal was costly, but SEA extended him: The Reds receives SS Edwin Arroyo, INF Noelvi Marte, RHP Levi Stoudt and RHP Andrew Moore. I think 2 were top 100.

 

There was a rumor we kicked the tire on Verlander, but he's not they type I'd trade top prospects for.

 

Civale might not have been an ace, but what did he cost? (I think he had 2-3 years or control, still.)

 

The Marlins traded Pablo Lopez, but not for prospects.

 

I'm sure someone knows better than I do, about some recent trades for SP'ers who were or quickly became solid #2s or aces.

 

 

[MADSTORK]

Yes, all you need to know about a prospect is looking at a boxscore! Great job!

 

wanking motion...

 

Lmao!

Your a joke!

It’s about overall statistics but I guess in your world stats don’t count

Read the post genius

[moonslav59]

Lmao!

Your a joke!

It’s about overall statistics but I guess in your world stats don’t count

Read the post genius

 

You mean like the overall stats of Berrios after the trade?

 

4.34 ERA

 

You know, your fantasy trade of Duran for him.

[notin]

Lmao!

Your a joke!

It’s about overall statistics but I guess in your world stats don’t count

Read the post genius

 

Actually most scouts don’t use stats for a variety of reasons…

[moonslav59]

Actually most scouts don’t use stats for a variety of reasons…

 

The funny thing is, MVP uses more advanced stats than just about anyone on this site.

[Randy Red Sox]

My point was asking what Sox pitcher was "hyped as the next Pedro."

 

BTW, I'm not suggesting we trade for a pitching prospect. I'm thinking someone proven and has 3-4 years fo team control. Maybe 2, if we can extend him.

 

Yes, that will take a "haul," too but Mayer is a good start to a package.

 

 

 

 

A number of points here. 1] i love Justin Verlander but the time to get him passed 3-4 years ago. 2} Mayer is UNTOUCHABLE. 3} Yorke is NOT a valuable trade chip. You can sign FA 2B's every offseason. Not saying he might not turn into a decent MLB player just saying that 2B are reasonably easy to acquire. 4} I don't see any impending FA SP that I would be in on. Blake Snell and Aaron Nola are probably the 2 best available but will want big $$ and likely long contracts and I stay WAY AWAY from that. 5} I just dont see teams trading away top young cost controlled SP tht the Sox need. A real pickle for your favourite GM.

 

Duran and Perales or Wikelman might be a good start, too.

 

Rafaela and Yorke plus some second tiers...

 

You don't think that's not a good enough start? Add Hickey and Murphy/Walter...

 

The Castillo deal was costly, but SEA extended him: The Reds receives SS Edwin Arroyo, INF Noelvi Marte, RHP Levi Stoudt and RHP Andrew Moore. I think 2 were top 100.

 

There was a rumor we kicked the tire on Verlander, but he's not they type I'd trade top prospects for.

 

Civale might not have been an ace, but what did he cost? (I think he had 2-3 years or control, still.)

 

The Marlins traded Pablo Lopez, but not for prospects.

 

I'm sure someone knows better than I do, about some recent trades for SP'ers who were or quickly became solid #2s or aces.

 

 

 

A number of points here. 1] i love Justin Verlander but the time to get him passed 3-4 years ago. 2} Mayer is UNTOUCHABLE. 3} Yorke is NOT a valuable trade chip. You can sign FA 2B's every offseason. Not saying he might not turn into a decent MLB player just saying that 2B are reasonably easy to acquire. 4} I don't see any impending FA SP that I would be in on. Blake Snell and Aaron Nola are probably the 2 best available but will want big $$ and likely long contracts and I stay WAY AWAY from that. 5} I just dont see teams trading away top young cost controlled SP tht the Sox need. A real pickle for your favourite GM.

[moonslav59]

A number of points here. 1] i love Justin Verlander but the time to get him passed 3-4 years ago. 2} Mayer is UNTOUCHABLE. 3} Yorke is NOT a valuable trade chip. You can sign FA 2B's every offseason. Not saying he might not turn into a decent MLB player just saying that 2B are reasonably easy to acquire. 4} I don't see any impending FA SP that I would be in on. Blake Snell and Aaron Nola are probably the 2 best available but will want big $$ and likely long contracts and I stay WAY AWAY from that. 5} I just dont see teams trading away top young cost controlled SP tht the Sox need. A real pickle for your favourite GM.

 

You didnt like Castillo or Lopez?

 

Who's favorite GM?

Edited September 1, 2023 by moonslav59

[Duran Is The Man]

Actually most scouts don’t use stats for a variety of reasons…

 

so....they use the "eye test"?

 

 

 

sorry, man, i just had to throw that out there.

[notin]

so....they use the "eye test"?

 

 

 

sorry, man, i just had to throw that out there.

 

 

Absolutely. That and a bunch of metrics.

 

Of course, they pay rarely (re: almost never) do the eye test by watching games on television…

[mvp 78]

Absolutely. That and a bunch of metrics.

 

Of course, they pay rarely (re: almost never) do the eye test by watching games on television…

 

Counting stats vs advanced stats vs performance metrics vs eye test

[mvp 78]

Lmao!

Your a joke!

It’s about overall statistics but I guess in your world stats don’t count

Read the post genius

 

If it was about overall statistics, Roman Anthony wouldn't have made it out of Salem you nob.