Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think he ruined Song’s career. I go think he should have tried to complete a deal and simply optioned So g to the minors.

 

And maybe he did try. Or maybe it was a token, lackluster effort…

 

Speculate away. Anything goes here.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's what they are doing. He's on the shelf with a "shoulder strain". Kid will get rehabbed, spend the entire 30 days in the minors, come up and then go back on the shelf. This will be more a development year than anything else and he gets to collect a big league paycheck

[notin]

That's what they are doing. He's on the shelf with a "shoulder strain". Kid will get rehabbed, spend the entire 30 days in the minors, come up and then go back on the shelf. This will be more a development year than anything else and he gets to collect a big league paycheck

 

He still needs his 90 days. If the Phillies just keep rehabbing him and burying him on the IL, the Sox have a legitimate grievance…

[Hugh2]

That's what they are doing. He's on the shelf with a "shoulder strain". Kid will get rehabbed, spend the entire 30 days in the minors, come up and then go back on the shelf. This will be more a development year than anything else and he gets to collect a big league paycheck

 

What you’re describing is a legitimate grievance, and if investigated DD should be suspended for a year if he does that.

[Hugh2]

I'm still hoping to get Song back, but I think framing this as DD potentially ruining a young man's career is pretty silly. He took a shot, with little to lose. He did what HOBO's are supposed to do, try to make their team better. I don't think Song is being treated unethically. The rules are what they are. DD operated within them.

 

I don’t think it’s silly at all. He hasn’t pitched in 3 years, he also NEVER even came close to a starters load, or was consistently on a shoulder strengthening program. And he has NOT been in a strength and conditioning program for at least 3 years. He hasn’t pitched off a mound in three years.

 

If Song stayed in Boston he’d be in Fort Myers on a shoulder strengthening program and looking to start throwing off a mound in a couple months. When Philly got stuck in a position where they had to pitch him this year they threw him RIGHT on the mound and guess what????? He got injured. That’s an open and shut case. Their irresponsibility with him directly led to his injury.

 

 

The “rules what they are” is a poor argument too. The military reserve list is an antiquated system built for a time when you were losing Ted Williams to a world war. It wasn’t built to deal with guys developing like Song. No one has ever done what DD has done, and he did it and now the kid is injured.

 

I would say it is unethical, I’m thoroughly convinced of this, and in no way is good for his development.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think it’s silly at all. He hasn’t pitched in 3 years, he also NEVER even came close to a starters load, or was consistently on a shoulder strengthening program. And he has NOT been in a strength and conditioning program for at least 3 years. He has r pitched off a mound in three years.

 

If Song stayed in Boston he’s be in Fort Myers on a shoulder strengthening program and looking to start throwing off a mound in a couple months. When Philly got stuck in a position where they had to pitch him this year they threw him RIGHT on the mound and guess what????? He got injured. That’s an open and shut case. Their irresponsibility with him directly led to his injury.

 

 

The “rules what they are” is a poor argument too. The military reserve list is an antiquated system built for a time when you were losing Ted Williams to a world war. It wasn’t built to deal with guys developing like Song. No one has ever done what DD has done, and he did it and now the kid is injured.

 

I would say it is unethical, I’m thoroughly convinced of this, and in no way is good for his development.

 

Sounds as simple as 1-2-4.

 

[Hugh2]

But maybe he's right that a query could have been made.

 

I’m not sure what point is proven that something hypothetically could have been correct that is in fact, not correct. I suppose it’s not fact, but it should be obvious…..if they knew he was being released I don’t think they select him.

[notin]

I don’t think it’s silly at all. He hasn’t pitched in 3 years, he also NEVER even came close to a starters load, or was consistently on a shoulder strengthening program. And he has NOT been in a strength and conditioning program for at least 3 years. He hasn’t pitched off a mound in three years.

 

If Song stayed in Boston he’d be in Fort Myers on a shoulder strengthening program and looking to start throwing off a mound in a couple months. When Philly got stuck in a position where they had to pitch him this year they threw him RIGHT on the mound and guess what????? He got injured. That’s an open and shut case. Their irresponsibility with him directly led to his injury.

 

 

The “rules what they are” is a poor argument too. The military reserve list is an antiquated system built for a time when you were losing Ted Williams to a world war. It wasn’t built to deal with guys developing like Song. No one has ever done what DD has done, and he did it and now the kid is injured.

 

I would say it is unethical, I’m thoroughly convinced of this, and in no way is good for his development.

 

I think he also used the Rule 5 draft to the letter of the rule, but not the spirit of the rule. That draft was instituted to keep teams from burying players in the minors when they deserved a chance. Song absolutely did not fit that bill…

[moonslav59]

I think he also used the Rule 5 draft to the letter of the rule, but not the spirit of the rule. That draft was instituted to keep teams from burying players in the minors when they deserved a chance. Song absolutely did not fit that bill…

 

Maybe a rule should be added to the Rule 5 eligibility requirements that demands a certain amount of time actually spent in the minors- playing.

 

[Bellhorn04]

That's what they are doing. He's on the shelf with a "shoulder strain". Kid will get rehabbed, spend the entire 30 days in the minors, come up and then go back on the shelf. This will be more a development year than anything else and he gets to collect a big league paycheck

 

It's his lower back, Doc.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think it’s silly at all. He hasn’t pitched in 3 years, he also NEVER even came close to a starters load, or was consistently on a shoulder strengthening program. And he has NOT been in a strength and conditioning program for at least 3 years. He hasn’t pitched off a mound in three years.

 

If Song stayed in Boston he’d be in Fort Myers on a shoulder strengthening program and looking to start throwing off a mound in a couple months. When Philly got stuck in a position where they had to pitch him this year they threw him RIGHT on the mound and guess what????? He got injured. That’s an open and shut case. Their irresponsibility with him directly led to his injury.

 

 

The “rules what they are” is a poor argument too. The military reserve list is an antiquated system built for a time when you were losing Ted Williams to a world war. It wasn’t built to deal with guys developing like Song. No one has ever done what DD has done, and he did it and now the kid is injured.

 

I would say it is unethical, I’m thoroughly convinced of this, and in no way is good for his development.

 

You may be right, Hugh. But the kid could have strained his back whether he was with the Phillies or still with us. It's an unsurprising development.

 

The more we see of this the more obvious it is that the rule needs to be fixed.

[Hugh2]

You may be right, Hugh. But the kid could have strained his back whether he was with the Phillies or still with us. It's an unsurprising development.

 

The more we see of this the more obvious it is that the rule needs to be fixed.

 

Yeah he could have, or he could not of. It’s like jumping into and exercise program after being out of shape for a while, which has happened to me more than once in life. A few of those times I hurt myself, I hurt myself thinking i could pick up where I left off.

 

When I started off slow and built my way up, I didn’t get hurt. I don’t have a crystal ball, but I’d be willing to bet if I did, that following a proper shoulder strengthening program for a few months before throwing off a mound would have led to a healthy Song.

 

The Phillies didn’t do that, and the exact thing happened to him that a slow build up is suppose to prevent. That’s a bad look.

[Hugh2]

But I’m glad there seems to be some momentum for the rules needing to be fixed here. Perhaps, the curious case of Noah Song will be the things that pushes MLB to change the rules.

[Old Red]

On a positive side how about Bogey, and JD hitting their first HR of the season yesterday, and Evol, and Wacha winning their first starts going 5, and 6 respectively.

[Bellhorn04]

On a positive side how about Bogey, and JD hitting their first HR of the season yesterday, and Evol, and Wacha winning their first starts going 5, and 6 respectively.

 

Plenty to watch on the out of town scoreboard this year, that's for sure.

[moonslav59]

On a positive side how about Bogey, and JD hitting their first HR of the season yesterday, and Evol, and Wacha winning their first starts going 5, and 6 respectively.

 

It will be interesting to make the what-if comparison of keeping all or most of last year's players vs what we replaced them with.

 

The cost comp is more difficult, as we will always wonder about what we could have signed Bogey for, instead of what he ended up getting with SD, but here is the financial comp:

 

Lost Sox Players in $millions

 

25.4 x 11 Bogey

17.0 x 2 Nate

10.0 x 3 Vaz

10.0 x 1 JD

8.0 x 1 Hill

7.5 x 2 Strahm

6.5 x 4 Wacha

Total: 84.4M AAV

 

2023 FA Additions:

17.0 x 5 Yoshida (not counting posting fee)

16.0 x 2 Jansen

10.9 x 2 Turner

10.0 x 1 Kluber

7.0 x 1 Duvall

6.8 x 2 Martin

2.0 x 1 JRod

Total: $69.7M for 2023

 

It's too early to look at 2023 production, but some players on both lists are off to good starts.

[mvp 78]

It's his lower back, Doc.

 

He hadn't pitched off a mound in 3 years. It was crazy to just throw him out there the way they did and not start him off slowly with a throwing program. Right now, I'm sure everything hurts.

 

Yes, they reported it as a back issue.

[mvp 78]

You may be right, Hugh. But the kid could have strained his back whether he was with the Phillies or still with us. It's an unsurprising development.

 

The more we see of this the more obvious it is that the rule needs to be fixed.

 

LOL no. C'mon man...

[notin]

You may be right, Hugh. But the kid could have strained his back whether he was with the Phillies or still with us. It's an unsurprising development.

 

The more we see of this the more obvious it is that the rule needs to be fixed.

 

 

If Song stayed with Boston, his entire timetable would have been different. He was far, far more likely to get hurt ramping up for MLB this year…

[notin]

But I’m glad there seems to be some momentum for the rules needing to be fixed here. Perhaps, the curious case of Noah Song will be the things that pushes MLB to change the rules.

 

I think the momentum so far has lived and died on this forum…

[Bellhorn04]

If Song stayed with Boston, his entire timetable would have been different. He was far, far more likely to get hurt ramping up for MLB this year…

 

Yeah, true enough.

[mvp 78]

If Song stayed with Boston, his entire timetable would have been different. He was far, far more likely to get hurt ramping up for MLB this year…

 

He would have been in the FCL probably the whole year. Maybe fast track him in 2024?

 

It just shows that he wasn't really throwing meaningfully while he was with the Navy. It's a shame.

[moonslav59]

He would have been in the FCL probably the whole year. Maybe fast track him in 2024?

 

It just shows that he wasn't really throwing meaningfully while he was with the Navy. It's a shame.

 

Was his time in the Navy really so restrictive that he could not find time, or be granted short leaves to work on his game?

[notin]

He would have been in the FCL probably the whole year. Maybe fast track him in 2024?

 

It just shows that he wasn't really throwing meaningfully while he was with the Navy. It's a shame.

 

I will assume the Navy was more concerned with abilities other than his pitching. Silly Navy…

[Hugh2]

He would have been in the FCL probably the whole year. Maybe fast track him in 2024?

 

It just shows that he wasn't really throwing meaningfully while he was with the Navy. It's a shame.

 

I think in 2024 he splits time in low high a. Now he has two years of ramping up under his belt. 2025 becomes the year that if EVERYTHING breaks right maybe he's knocking on the door by season's end. YOu figure him to be a MLBer by 2026

[notin]

Was his time in the Navy really so restrictive that he could not find time, or be granted short leaves to work on his game?

 

He probably had to focus on learning to fly a plane, which is one activity that, if you do it wrong, can cause problems far more severe than a lower back strain…

[mvp 78]

I will assume the Navy was more concerned with abilities other than his pitching. Silly Navy…

 

Unbelievable!

[mvp 78]

He probably had to focus on learning to fly a plane, which is one activity that, if you do it wrong, can cause problems far more severe than a lower back strain…

 

He wasn't actually the one flying the plane though as he is too tall.

[mvp 78]

I think in 2024 he splits time in low high a. Now he has two years of ramping up under his belt. 2025 becomes the year that if EVERYTHING breaks right maybe he's knocking on the door by season's end. YOu figure him to be a MLBer by 2026

 

Hard to do it that way as 23, 24 and 25 would burn all his option years. You'd need to fast track him sooner than 2025.

[Bellhorn04]

Was his time in the Navy really so restrictive that he could not find time, or be granted short leaves to work on his game?

 

The way Song tells it, he really wasn't sure he'd ever play baseball again.