Fire Bloom .

[dgalehouse]

Bloom has a philosophy for constructing a bullpen. It is not unusual. It is straight out of the analytics handbook. That is , relievers are hit or miss. Don't spend money on the bullpen. Piece it together. Sometimes that works. Obviously, it is not working for the Sox. I have said it for a long time. In today's game , the bullpen is so vital. If you don't have a good one , you are in trouble. We can only hope that this becomes a priority this off season.

[mvp 78]

Bloom has a philosophy for constructing a bullpen. It is not unusual. It is straight out of the analytics handbook. That is , relievers are hit or miss. Don't spend money on the bullpen. Piece it together. Sometimes that works. Obviously, it is not working for the Sox. I have said it for a long time. In today's game , the bullpen is so vital. If you don't have a good one , you are in trouble. We can only hope that this becomes a priority this off season.

 

The Sox made it to the ALCS in 2021, but how did his reliever strategy work then?

 

8th in fWAR

12th in xFIP

12th in ERA (for some of our friends on here)

11th in LOB%

 

The pen is much, much worse in 2022. They are 29th in Left on Base% in 2022 and it feels like it.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sox made it to the ALCS in 2021, but how did his reliever strategy work then?

 

8th in fWAR

12th in xFIP

12th in ERA (for some of our friends on here)

11th in LOB%

 

The pen is much, much worse in 2022. They are 29th in Left on Base% in 2022 and it feels like it.

 

They don't have the minor league talent to support a pen. They didn't add anything of use. A good pen is not just a good pen on opening day, it's a good pen with incredible depth due to the failure rate and injury rate of relievers

[Old Red]

The Sox made it to the ALCS in 2021, but how did his reliever strategy work then?

 

8th in fWAR

12th in xFIP

12th in ERA (for some of our friends on here)

11th in LOB%

 

The pen is much, much worse in 2022. They are 29th in Left on Base% in 2022 and it feels like it.

 

Barnes was a good closer the early part of 2021, and Whitlock was pretty much lockdown, but not the same in 2022, so that’s 2 differences.

[mvp 78]

They don't have the minor league talent to support a pen. They didn't add anything of use. A good pen is not just a good pen on opening day, it's a good pen with incredible depth due to the failure rate and injury rate of relievers

 

Most rankings have the Sox about 10th or 11th best farm, so I guess most pens are just horrible then. Pack it up everyone.

 

For the first time in a long time the Sox were actually able to bring up younger pitchers (Winckowski, Crawford, Bello) and there are others on the horizon that could bolster the pen next season (Mata, Bazardo, Murphy, German, Politi). There are even some longer shots like Thaddeus Ward who has pitched well since coming back from TJS and Ryan Zeferjahn who has been much better since converting to relief and reducing his pitch mix.

 

You could have posted this a few years ago and been right on the money, but I think you're a little off base at the moment.

[moonslav59]

They don't have the minor league talent to support a pen. They didn't add anything of use. A good pen is not just a good pen on opening day, it's a good pen with incredible depth due to the failure rate and injury rate of relievers

 

They added Strahm, Schreiber and used past additions, Whitlock, Wink and a few others as well.

 

The farm also contributed Crawford and others.

 

It didn't work well, this year. Many of the same names that did okay, last year, sucked, this year.

 

The Diekman signing was awful, although we did salvage that signing by trading him and his contract for McGuire.

[mvp 78]

Barnes was a good closer the early part of 2021, and Whitlock was pretty much lockdown, but not the same in 2022, so that’s 2 differences.

2021 relievers:

Josh Taylor 1.0 fWAR (a real cog that was missing from this pen)

Garrett Richards 0.6 fWAR (relief only numbers, at the end of the year he really provided a big surge to the pen)

Adam Ottavino 0.6 fWAR (This is basically Strahm now)

Hansel Robles 0.4 fWAR (partial season, as much value as Houck or Brasier provided all year)

 

This year's pen was just Schreiber, Whitlock and Strahm with the later two having lost significant time due to injury. Last year's pen had anywhere from 5-6 guys they could go to especially down the stretch when Robles and Richards were throwing well. Valdez and Andriese were the only regulars with ugly ERA's (some of the FIP's did show that a few of the guys were a bit lucky last year).

[mvp 78]

They added Strahm, Schreiber and used past additions, Whitlock, Wink and a few others as well.

 

The farm also contributed Crawford and others.

 

It didn't work well, this year. Many of the same names that did okay, last year, sucked, this year.

 

The Diekman signing was awful, although we did salvage that signing by trading him and his contract for McGuire.

 

What if I told you that Schreiber pitched for the 2021 Red Sox. Would you believe me?

[moonslav59]

What if I told you that Schreiber pitched for the 2021 Red Sox. Would you believe me?

 

Yes. I was wondering who would catch that.

 

It took a while.

[moonslav59]

2021 relievers:

Josh Taylor 1.0 fWAR (a real cog that was missing from this pen)

Garrett Richards 0.6 fWAR (relief only numbers, at the end of the year he really provided a big surge to the pen)

Adam Ottavino 0.6 fWAR (This is basically Strahm now)

Hansel Robles 0.4 fWAR (partial season, as much value as Houck or Brasier provided all year)

 

This year's pen was just Schreiber, Whitlock and Strahm with the later two having lost significant time due to injury. Last year's pen had anywhere from 5-6 guys they could go to especially down the stretch when Robles and Richards were throwing well. Valdez and Andriese were the only regulars with ugly ERA's (some of the FIP's did show that a few of the guys were a bit lucky last year).

 

Plus, Whitlock lost time in the pen due to being used as a starter.

 

I think Houck has to be mentioned, too, and he was a starter and on the IL, too.

[Bobe2]

Well Blooms at it again he was on the Greg Hill show 93.7 weei and he’s already walking back what he told Kiki about next year being a better team, he says he has no control over that, someone should let this guy know what’s in his job description, granted he doesn’t have control over injuries, but the roster, free agent signings, draft picks, resigning players, wire pickups are all his. You can’t get any more vanilla than this guy he doesn’t walk the walk or talk the talk. So Sox fans, I really hate to say this, don’t get excited, just wait till next year

[Old Red]

Well Blooms at it again he was on the Greg Hill show 93.7 weei and he’s already walking back what he told Kiki about next year being a better team, he says he has no control over that, someone should let this guy know what’s in his job description, granted he doesn’t have control over injuries, but the roster, free agent signings, draft picks, resigning players, wire pickups are all his. You can’t get any more vanilla than this guy he doesn’t walk the walk or talk the talk. So Sox fans, I really hate to say this, don’t get excited, just wait till next year

 

Or the year after, or the year after that would be fine with some on here.

[Bobe2]

Or the year after, or the year after that would be fine with some on here.

 

There seems to be a lot of armchair GMs and not many real Sox fans here

Edited September 14, 2022 by Bobe2

[Bellhorn04]

There seems to be a lot of armchair GMs and not many real Sox fans here

 

That's BS. Playing armchair GM is part of every sports chat board. Says nothing about one's fandom.

[Old Red]

That's BS. Playing armchair GM is part of every sports chat board. Says nothing about one's fandom.

 

It’s many fans just looking at things in a different way. Some just worry about what’s going on today with todays game, and some go much deeper, and worry if JH has to pay a tax, and what the tail end of the 40 man roster looks like, and all the jobs, and responsibilities that Bloom has. The old different strokes for different folks, and what wets your whistle. I see both sides.

[jacksonianmarch]

Most rankings have the Sox about 10th or 11th best farm, so I guess most pens are just horrible then. Pack it up everyone.

 

For the first time in a long time the Sox were actually able to bring up younger pitchers (Winckowski, Crawford, Bello) and there are others on the horizon that could bolster the pen next season (Mata, Bazardo, Murphy, German, Politi). There are even some longer shots like Thaddeus Ward who has pitched well since coming back from TJS and Ryan Zeferjahn who has been much better since converting to relief and reducing his pitch mix.

 

You could have posted this a few years ago and been right on the money, but I think you're a little off base at the moment.

 

Your minor league system is top heavy. You have 2 high level prospects in Casas and Mayer. That usually rockets you up. But the sox farm did not have a good year. Also, the sox pitching prospects are thin as an anorexic teenager. You and I both know it. Beyond Mata and Bello, there really isn't an arm there that gives you an inkling they can pitch in the bigs.

[Bobe2]

That's BS. Playing armchair GM is part of every sports chat board. Says nothing about one's fandom.

 

Sure it is, but you all say the same thing, get original have your own thoughts be entertaining instead of blah blah blah, and saying the same things over and over and over again, stop trying to intimidate others with endless numbers and useless facts and figures, like you said it’s a chat board not GMs in training

[moonslav59]

Your minor league system is top heavy. You have 2 high level prospects in Casas and Mayer. That usually rockets you up. But the sox farm did not have a good year. Also, the sox pitching prospects are thin as an anorexic teenager. You and I both know it. Beyond Mata and Bello, there really isn't an arm there that gives you an inkling they can pitch in the bigs.

 

Have you really researched Sox prospects all that much?

 

No "inkling they can pitch in the bigs." That's a pretty low bar you set to go on and neglect all pitchers beyond Bello & Mata. Now, what I'm about to say may not mean much, because our pitching prospects have been so scarce and underwhelming for many years, but this farm system has more quality and quantity of promising pitchers in a long time.

 

We've already seen Crawford show signs he can "pitch in the bigs." Wink and Seabold, not so much, but the book is not closed on them, just yet.

 

Beyond those that have pitched in the bigs and Mata, we have plenty of hopefuls, and I'm not talking long shots to "make the bigs."

 

Frank German: .495 OPS Against in AA/AAA (63K in 49 IP) 0.90 WHIP

He could easily be a very good set-up man or maybe even a decent c loser.

 

Brandon Walter: .585 OPS Against (75 Ks and 7 BB in 58 IP in AA/AAA)

 

Wikelman Gonzalez: .623 OPSA (121 Ks in 98 IP at A-/A+)

 

Chris Murphy: .665 OPSA (136K in 134 IP AA/AAA) 1.24 WHIP

 

Thaddeus Ward: .601 OPSA (66 Ks in 51 IP on 4 teams-rehabbing)

 

Farther away or a longer shot:

Luis Perales: .523 (50Ks in 36 IP at FCL/A-)

Shane Drohan: .690 (157K in 130 IP) 1.26 in A+/AA)

Tyler Uberstine: .657 (101 K in 92 IP at A-/A+)

AJ Politi: .602 (74K in 64 IP in AA/AAA)

Jacob Wallace: .670 (74 Ks in 55 IP at AA)

Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz: .561 (42 in 38 IP at FCL/A-)

Jedixson Paez: .523 (50Ks in 36 IP at FCL/A-)

Juan Encarnacion: .642 (129K in 113 IP A-/A+)

Luis de la Rosa: .626 (58Ks in 49 IP (FCL/A-)

 

Others: Noah Song, Victor Santos, Ryan Fernandez, Angel Bastardo, Noah Dean, Luis Guerrero, Reidis Sena

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

There seems to be a lot of armchair GMs and not many real Sox fans here

 

I thank you for the positive attitude you have always shown towards the team you root for.

[moonslav59]

Sure it is, but you all say the same thing, get original have your own thoughts be entertaining instead of blah blah blah, and saying the same things over and over and over again, stop trying to intimidate others with endless numbers and useless facts and figures, like you said it’s a chat board not GMs in training

 

Bell "trying to intimidate others?"

 

Get real.

[Bobe2]

Bell "trying to intimidate others?"

 

Get real.

I wasn’t zeroing in on him, he just happened to be the person that I responded to I would have said the same to whoever replied

[moonslav59]

I wasn’t zeroing in on him, he just happened to be the person that I responded to I would have said the same to whoever replied

 

I love your originality. No blah, blah, blah from you.

[Bobe2]

Have you really researched Sox prospects all that much?

 

No "inkling they can pitch in the bigs." That's a pretty low bar you set to go on and neglect all pitchers beyond Bello & Mata. Now, what I'm about to say may not mean much, because our pitching prospects have been so scarce and underwhelming for many years, but this farm system has more quality and quantity of promising pitchers in a long time.

 

We've already seen Crawford show signs he can "pitch in the bigs." Wink and Seabold, not so much, but the book is not closed on them, just yet.

 

Beyond those that have pitched in the bigs and Mata, we have plenty of hopefuls, and I'm not talking long shots to "make the bigs."

 

Frank German: .495 OPS Against in AA/AAA (63K in 49 IP) 0.90 WHIP

He could easily be a very good set-up man or maybe even a decent c loser.

 

Brandon Walter: .585 OPS Against (75 Ks and 7 BB in 58 IP in AA/AAA)

 

Wikelman Gonzalez: .623 OPSA (121 Ks in 98 IP at A-/A+)

 

Chris Murphy: .665 OPSA (136K in 134 IP AA/AAA) 1.24 WHIP

 

Thaddeus Ward: .601 OPSA (66 Ks in 51 IP on 4 teams-rehabbing)

 

Farther away or a longer shot:

Luis Perales: .523 (50Ks in 36 IP at FCL/A-)

Shane Drohan: .690 (157K in 130 IP) 1.26 in A+/AA)

Tyler Uberstine: .657 (101 K in 92 IP at A-/A+)

AJ Politi: .602 (74K in 64 IP in AA/AAA)

Jacob Wallace: .670 (74 Ks in 55 IP at AA)

Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz: .561 (42 in 38 IP at FCL/A-)

Jedixson Paez: .523 (50Ks in 36 IP at FCL/A-)

Juan Encarnacion: .642 (129K in 113 IP A-/A+)

Luis de la Rosa: .626 (58Ks in 49 IP (FCL/A-)

 

Others: Victor Santos, Ryan Fernandez, Angel Bastardo, Noah Dean, Luis Guerrero, Reidis Sena

 

 

Case in point

[a700hitter]

Over The Monster. Why did Familia pitch last night? Excellent article to read, or listen to.

We will not have to see him pitch any more. That is a positive.

[Red Foreman]

Bloom was brought in to trade Mookie and clear salary space. That has been accomplished at all costs. Thanks Chaim. Now it is time to bring in someone with an ounce of talent evaluation skill. Payroll out and garbage in doesn't equal championships.

[notin]

Have you really researched Sox prospects all that much?

 

No "inkling they can pitch in the bigs." That's a pretty low bar you set to go on and neglect all pitchers beyond Bello & Mata. Now, what I'm about to say may not mean much, because our pitching prospects have been so scarce and underwhelming for many years, but this farm system has more quality and quantity of promising pitchers in a long time.

 

We've already seen Crawford show signs he can "pitch in the bigs." Wink and Seabold, not so much, but the book is not closed on them, just yet.

 

Beyond those that have pitched in the bigs and Mata, we have plenty of hopefuls, and I'm not talking long shots to "make the bigs."

 

Frank German: .495 OPS Against in AA/AAA (63K in 49 IP) 0.90 WHIP

He could easily be a very good set-up man or maybe even a decent c loser.

 

Brandon Walter: .585 OPS Against (75 Ks and 7 BB in 58 IP in AA/AAA)

 

Wikelman Gonzalez: .623 OPSA (121 Ks in 98 IP at A-/A+)

 

Chris Murphy: .665 OPSA (136K in 134 IP AA/AAA) 1.24 WHIP

 

Thaddeus Ward: .601 OPSA (66 Ks in 51 IP on 4 teams-rehabbing)

 

Farther away or a longer shot:

Luis Perales: .523 (50Ks in 36 IP at FCL/A-)

Shane Drohan: .690 (157K in 130 IP) 1.26 in A+/AA)

Tyler Uberstine: .657 (101 K in 92 IP at A-/A+)

AJ Politi: .602 (74K in 64 IP in AA/AAA)

Jacob Wallace: .670 (74 Ks in 55 IP at AA)

Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz: .561 (42 in 38 IP at FCL/A-)

Jedixson Paez: .523 (50Ks in 36 IP at FCL/A-)

Juan Encarnacion: .642 (129K in 113 IP A-/A+)

Luis de la Rosa: .626 (58Ks in 49 IP (FCL/A-)

 

Others: Victor Santos, Ryan Fernandez, Angel Bastardo, Noah Dean, Luis Guerrero, Reidis Sena

 

 

Noah Song, too…

[notin]

It’s many fans just looking at things in a different way. Some just worry about what’s going on today with todays game, and some go much deeper, and worry if JH has to pay a tax, and what the tail end of the 40 man roster looks like, and all the jobs, and responsibilities that Bloom has. The old different strokes for different folks, and what wets your whistle. I see both sides.

 

No one worries if Henry has to pay a tax. Some folks just acknowledge he won’t always do it, and history has backed them up on this repeatedly…

[notin]

Bloom has a philosophy for constructing a bullpen. It is not unusual. It is straight out of the analytics handbook. That is , relievers are hit or miss. Don't spend money on the bullpen. Piece it together. Sometimes that works. Obviously, it is not working for the Sox. I have said it for a long time. In today's game , the bullpen is so vital. If you don't have a good one , you are in trouble. We can only hope that this becomes a priority this off season.

 

 

That’s actually NOT the analytics approach. In fact, that’s the approach of Old School GMs.

[Bobe2]

No one worries if Henry has to pay a tax. Some folks just acknowledge he won’t always do it, and history has backed them up on this repeatedly…

 

The Sox have been over the luxury tax 11 times for a grand total tax of around $50 million, in comparison the Dodgers tax for last year alone was $40 million, on a $340 million payroll,

[jacksonianmarch]

Have you really researched Sox prospects all that much?

 

No "inkling they can pitch in the bigs." That's a pretty low bar you set to go on and neglect all pitchers beyond Bello & Mata. Now, what I'm about to say may not mean much, because our pitching prospects have been so scarce and underwhelming for many years, but this farm system has more quality and quantity of promising pitchers in a long time.

 

We've already seen Crawford show signs he can "pitch in the bigs." Wink and Seabold, not so much, but the book is not closed on them, just yet.

 

Beyond those that have pitched in the bigs and Mata, we have plenty of hopefuls, and I'm not talking long shots to "make the bigs."

 

Frank German: .495 OPS Against in AA/AAA (63K in 49 IP) 0.90 WHIP

He could easily be a very good set-up man or maybe even a decent c loser.

 

Brandon Walter: .585 OPS Against (75 Ks and 7 BB in 58 IP in AA/AAA)

 

Wikelman Gonzalez: .623 OPSA (121 Ks in 98 IP at A-/A+)

 

Chris Murphy: .665 OPSA (136K in 134 IP AA/AAA) 1.24 WHIP

 

Thaddeus Ward: .601 OPSA (66 Ks in 51 IP on 4 teams-rehabbing)

 

Farther away or a longer shot:

Luis Perales: .523 (50Ks in 36 IP at FCL/A-)

Shane Drohan: .690 (157K in 130 IP) 1.26 in A+/AA)

Tyler Uberstine: .657 (101 K in 92 IP at A-/A+)

AJ Politi: .602 (74K in 64 IP in AA/AAA)

Jacob Wallace: .670 (74 Ks in 55 IP at AA)

Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz: .561 (42 in 38 IP at FCL/A-)

Jedixson Paez: .523 (50Ks in 36 IP at FCL/A-)

Juan Encarnacion: .642 (129K in 113 IP A-/A+)

Luis de la Rosa: .626 (58Ks in 49 IP (FCL/A-)

 

Others: Victor Santos, Ryan Fernandez, Angel Bastardo, Noah Dean, Luis Guerrero, Reidis Sena

 

 

I stand by my comment.