Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

The facts are these:

 

-They were 3 games out a Wild Card spot at the deadline.

-Players on the IL at the time but expected back included Sale, Story, Kike and possibly Paxton.

 

Obviously many of us felt the team was "going nowhere". But management of the Boston Red Sox doesn't have the luxury of thinking that way. They've got fans paying a lot of money to answer to.

 

Oh, I understand why they did what they did, but I don't have to agree, and didn't at the time, too.

 

They played it halfway, which almost never works. They did improve the 2023 and 2024 team, so I'm not pissed, but getting under the tax line should have happened- regardless.

[Bellhorn04]

Go look at the standings on August 1 and the teams that were ahead of us. The Yankees, Astros and Jays were the only teams that were more than 6 games over .500 and had a run differential of better than +28. The Rays were 54-48 with a differential of +18.

[Bellhorn04]

Oh, I understand why they did what they did, but I don't have to agree, and didn't at the time, too.

 

They played it halfway, which almost never works. They did improve the 2023 and 2024 team, so I'm not pissed, but getting under the tax line should have happened- regardless.

 

Hosmer, Pham and McGuire were all upgrades, arguably.

[moonslav59]

Go look at the standings on August 1 and the teams that were ahead of us. The Yankees, Astros and Jays were the only teams that were more than 6 games over .500 and had a run differential of better than +28. The Rays were 54-48 with a differential of +18.

 

We weren't 100% out of it, and there were hopes that players returning from injury might make the difference, but IMO, we were done weeks before the deadline. I felt it was over, even before July 22nd, when I started the 2024 thread, but I waited about as long as I could.

 

Had we traded JD and Nate, we'd have been under the tax line.

 

[moonslav59]

Hosmer, Pham and McGuire were all upgrades, arguably.

 

Yes. I said the trades improved us for 2023 and 2024- a rare feat by any GM.

 

McGuire > Vaz and has team control for 2 more years

 

Hosmer> Dalbec and is basically free for 2-3 more years.

 

Pham > Cordero and has a 2024 option.

 

Dumping Diekman's 2024 contract cost was a plus, too, for 2024.

 

Almonte and Chang have even done well in tiny sample sizes.

 

I like what Bloom did, except not cutting enough salary to get under the line.

 

Wait until 2025 and or 2026, and tell me you are happy we didn't get under the line in 2023.

[Bellhorn04]

We weren't 100% out of it, and there were hopes that players returning from injury might make the difference, but IMO, we were done weeks before the deadline. I felt it was over, even before July 22nd, when I started the 2024 thread, but I waited about as long as I could.

 

Had we traded JD and Nate, we'd have been under the tax line.

 

 

If they traded JD and Nate, they might as well have gone full fire sale.

[mvp 78]

Exactly. They were dead on arrival at the deadline and a Hosmer/Pham pickup was supposed to fix that? Really terrible general managing. Someone would have given up a top 100 prospect for Bogey, maybe two.

 

Unfortunately, that's not what FO/Ownership believed at the time.

[mvp 78]

If they traded JD and Nate, they might as well have gone full fire sale.

 

They should have IMO.

[moonslav59]

If they traded JD and Nate, they might as well have gone full fire sale.

 

Bogey has a no trade clause.

Kike was being brought back- maybe Wacha will, if not yes, they could have traded him, too.

Strahm, too.

 

Plawecki was not tradeable.

 

[notin]

The facts are these:

 

-They were 3 games out a Wild Card spot at the deadline.

-Players on the IL at the time but expected back included Sale, Story, Kike and possibly Paxton.

 

Obviously many of us felt the team was "going nowhere". But management of the Boston Red Sox doesn't have the luxury of thinking that way. They've got fans paying a lot of money to answer to.

 

Not only 3 games out but they likely anticipated Chris Sale coming back, or at least not being stupid enough to go bike riding…

[Bellhorn04]

Not only 3 games out but they likely anticipated Chris Sale coming back, or at least not being stupid enough to go bike riding…

 

Like I said, Sale plus Story and Kike and even Paxton, heh heh...

 

Wacha was on the shelf at the time, too.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

They should have IMO.

 

Did you feel 100% that way at the time?

[Bellhorn04]

Bogey has a no trade clause.

 

Sure he does. But he probably would have waived it if it was the right team.

[moonslav59]

Sure he does. But he probably would have waived it if it was the right team.

 

Agreed, and if he knew we were trading Nate, JD and maybe Wacha, Hill and Strahm, he'd have likely okay'd a deal.

[Old Red]

Agreed, and if he knew we were trading Nate, JD and maybe Wacha, Hill and Strahm, he'd have likely okay'd a deal.

 

I don’t think Bogey would have gone anywhere Unless he was pretty much sure that he would not be resigning in Boston.

[Old Red]

Yes. I said the trades improved us for 2023 and 2024- a rare feat by any GM.

 

McGuire > Vaz and has team control for 2 more years

 

Hosmer> Dalbec and is basically free for 2-3 more years.

 

Pham > Cordero and has a 2024 option.

 

Dumping Diekman's 2024 contract cost was a plus, too, for 2024.

 

Almonte and Chang have even done well in tiny sample sizes.

 

I like what Bloom did, except not cutting enough salary to get under the line.

 

Wait until 2025 and or 2026, and tell me you are happy we didn't get under the line in 2023.

 

I don’t think most of the average fan is even thinking about 2025, or 2026 let alone worrying about it, or 2023, or 2024 for that matter, and I don’t think Bloom is looking that far ahead either.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think Bogey would have gone anywhere Unless he was pretty much sure that he would not be resigning in Boston.

 

I would think, if they came to him and said we are trading 5 guys, so do you want to be traded, he might have said yes. Certainly he may have said no, and we'd still have been under the tax line.

 

They could also have said, "We aren't going higher than $150M/6, so if that helps you decide about staying or not, so be it.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think most of the average fan is even thinking about 2025, or 2026 let alone worrying about it, or 2023, or 2024 for that matter, and I don’t think Bloom is looking that far ahead either.

 

Yes, you've let us know that opinion, and I don't disagree, but Bloom, Cora and JH are certainly thinking far ahead.

 

In this case, he here and now won out, for the most part, although many fans were still pissed they didn't make some big trades, so I guess in that sense the long term won out.

[Old Red]

I would think, if they came to him and said we are trading 5 guys, so do you want to be traded, he might have said yes. Certainly he may have said no, and we'd still have been under the tax line.

 

They could also have said, "We aren't going higher than $150M/6, so if that helps you decide about staying or not, so be it.

I’ll stick to my original statement that he would have stayed as long as he thought there was a chance to resign.

[Old Red]

Yes, you've let us know that opinion, and I don't disagree, but Bloom, Cora and JH are certainly thinking far ahead.

 

In this case, he here and now won out, for the most part, although many fans were still pissed they didn't make some big trades, so I guess in that sense the long term won out.

How do you know that even JH is looking ahead to 2025, and beyond? I can’t see Cora, and certainly Bloom still being here at that point either.

[mvp 78]

Did you feel 100% that way at the time?

 

Yes, but I understood their argument. I just didn't agree with it. I wanted them to sell earlier in the season.

[Bellhorn04]

How do you know that even JH is looking ahead to 2025, and beyond? I can’t see Cora, and certainly Bloom still being here at that point either.

 

Sometimes, it all comes down to whether one is an optimist or a pessimist. As an optimist I hope they're all still here.

[Old Red]

Sometimes, it all comes down to whether one is an optimist or a pessimist. As an optimist I hope they're all still here.

 

If they are all still here in 2025, and beyond I would think that would mean some success in the meantime, so that would be a good thing. Even I would rather see Bloom, and the Red Sox succeed, than Bloom, and the Red Sox fail like this year, and be gone, because of it.

[Old Red]

Yes, but I understood their argument. I just didn't agree with it. I wanted them to sell earlier in the season.

 

To me you should never give up on a season, and still make the high paying customers at Fenway pay the big money to watch it.it’s never guaranteed the next year will be any better.

[moonslav59]

How do you know that even JH is looking ahead to 2025, and beyond? I can’t see Cora, and certainly Bloom still being here at that point either.

 

Really?

 

2025 is just one season ahead.

[Old Red]

Really?

 

2025 is just one season ahead.

 

I thought next year is only 2023.

[moonslav59]

To me you should never give up on a season, and still make the high paying customers at Fenway pay the big money to watch it.it’s never guaranteed the next year will be any better.

 

It's also never guaranteed that the team trading away players will do worse or be less exciting, then.

 

people bitched most at the Vaz deal, and McGuire has done better.

 

It's not hard to imagine anyone doing better than the post-deadline JD and Nate, either- same as speculating about us being better or worse, next year.

[mvp 78]

I thought next year is only 2023.

 

The lost seasons keep adding up.

[Old Red]

It's also never guaranteed that the team trading away players will do worse or be less exciting, then.

 

people bitched most at the Vaz deal, and McGuire has done better.

 

It's not hard to imagine anyone doing better than the post-deadline JD and Nate, either- same as speculating about us being better or worse, next year.

You don’t know what Vaz would have done if he would have stayed in Boston now do you? Vaz got a lot of big clutch hits in his career in Boston. We know Vaz wasn’t good enough for you, but at any rate to me not doing the fire sale at the deadline was the right thing to do at the time. It looks worse now, but nobody knew Raffy would go into a power outage also.

[mvp 78]

It's also never guaranteed that the team trading away players will do worse or be less exciting, then.

 

people bitched most at the Vaz deal, and McGuire has done better.

 

It's not hard to imagine anyone doing better than the post-deadline JD and Nate, either- same as speculating about us being better or worse, next year.

 

The Vaz trade was really weird. Overnight, he became a "team leader" who needed to be given a long term deal. How did he go from a defensively overrated guy who throws the ball around too much, but has a few big hits on his resumé to a modern day Sox Rushmore player? Baffling.