2022 Bullpen Thread

[Behindenemylines]

Bullpen has been pleasantly surprising. The problem is short starts lead to over using pen and burnout.

[moonslav59]

Bullpen has been pleasantly surprising. The problem is short starts lead to over using pen and burnout.

 

Not with 10 men pens.

[harmony]

Bullpen has been pleasantly surprising. The problem is short starts lead to over using pen and burnout.

Through 10 games the Red Sox starters have averaged 4.5 innings per game and the bullpen 4.4 innings per game.

[notin]

Bullpen has been pleasantly surprising. The problem is short starts lead to over using pen and burnout.

 

That’s certainly influenced by an abbreviated spring training. MLB has tried to help teams in this regard with 2 extra roster spots (used almost exclusively for pitchers) for the first month, and also with the use of ghost runners…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That’s certainly influenced by an abbreviated spring training. MLB has tried to help teams in this regard with 2 extra roster spots (used almost exclusively for pitchers) for the first month, and also with the use of ghost runners…

 

Legend has it that after stadium lights go out, the ghost runners hover over the batter's box and take turns swinging at all the dead arms...

[notin]

Legend has it that after stadium lights go out, the ghost runners hover over the batter's box and take turns swinging at all the dead arms...

 

Not true. A lot of them wind up on the Phantom IL….

[Bellhorn04]

"Ghost runner" is more bad terminology. "Freebie runner" would be more accurate.

[notin]

"Ghost runner" is more bad terminology. "Freebie runner" would be more accurate.

 

Boo!

 

I like the term “Ghost Runner.” It gives a touch of the macabre. I would also accept Phantom Runner, and maybe even Shadow Runner.

 

But Freebie Runner sounds like it was coined by 6 year olds…

[notin]

In fact, I think “Ghost Runner” would make for a great baseball-themed coming of age movie.

 

Picture the trailer - a young Jarren Duran (played by Charlie Tahan) on the Worcester Red Sox breaks for second base. When halfway there he sees the ghost of the Stolen Base King himself!!

 

“Stop Jarren!”

 

“Rickey? Rickey Henderson? Did you die? I thought you were still alive!”

 

“Rickey’s alive. Rickey is just sick of watching other people break Rickey’s records!”

 

“But you were the greatest. Teach me!”

 

So Spirit Rickey (played by Morris Chestnut) and Jarren going on Training Montage where Rickey runs through walls while Jarren slams into them hard. And they do all kinds of weird exercises. Then they have another montage where they go and try on hats while the soundtrack blares “Semi-Charmed Life,” because no one who has ever used that song in a movie has listened to the lyrics.

 

Anyway, Rickey teaches Jarren to Use the Course, mostly for reasons related to copyrights. Jarren succeeds as goes to Fenway. In the last scene, just as Jarren is called up to the plate, we see Spirit Rickey in the stands, where he is joined by Real Rickey!! Jarren promptly fouls a pitch at them, which Spirit Rickey tries to catch, but it passes through his hands and strikes Real Rickey - killing him instantly. A Second Spirit Rickey emerges from the deceased body, thus spawning multiple opportunities for dual-ghost themed titles for the sequel.

 

Whaddaya think?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Boo!

 

I like the term “Ghost Runner.” It gives a touch of the macabre. I would also accept Phantom Runner, and maybe even Shadow Runner.

 

But Freebie Runner sounds like it was coined by 6 year olds…

 

It's incongruous to equate 6-year-olds with big leaguers, when the only tattoos that kids get are rub-on temporary stickers. Unlike the pros, youngsters don't yet have the education to research the chemicals going onto their skin, nor the pain threshold to receive multiple jabs for the permanent tats of their role models.

[mvp 78]

"Ghost runner" is more bad terminology. "Freebie runner" would be more accurate.

 

It's the Manfred Man.

[Bellhorn04]

It's the Manfred Man.

 

That's a winner.

[mvp 78]

That's a winner.

 

I didn't create it, but I will proselytize for it.

[Maxbialystock]

Bullpen has been pleasantly surprising. The problem is short starts lead to over using pen and burnout.

 

Stop it. I mean right now. This thread is absolutely, positively, and definitely not about any bullpen.

[moonslav59]

We've heard some criticism of Cora's pen moves over the first 11 games, but to me, the guy works wonders with these guys.

 

Our pen has saved our asses, thus far.

[a700hitter]

Speaking of Bullpens, I am watching the closer of the Rockies, Daniel Bard -- a guy whose career was ruined by the Red Sox. He was never Starting Pitcher material. Bobby V knew it and expressed doubts to him. But Ben indulged Bard's stubbornness and it wrecked his career. Glad to see that he recovered from that destruction.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Gotta give credit where it's due for the first-place Red Sox: Strahm, Diekman, Robles and Whitlock. All were unheralded pick-ups by Bloom, deftly used by Cora, and arguably the most valuable players on the team through the first dozen games.

 

Hopefully, if management has learned anything from the past few years, it will take steps soon to fortify this core before inevitable burn-out. Counting on meaningful contributions from Paxton and/or Sale, and thereby moving another starter to the bullpen is a longshot. Maybe some younger, flexible arms promoted from the farms can give a second-half boost...

[moonslav59]

Speaking of Bullpens, I am watching the closer of the Rockies, Daniel Bard -- a guy whose career was ruined by the Red Sox. He was never Starting Pitcher material. Bobby V knew it and expressed doubts to him. But Ben indulged Bard's stubbornness and it wrecked his career. Glad to see that he recovered from that destruction.

 

Like Bobby V is someone anyone should listen to.

 

Blind squirrel on this one.

 

Bard wanted to start, badly. It's as much on him as Sox management, things went south so quickly.

[moonslav59]

Gotta give credit where it's due for the first-place Red Sox: Strahm, Diekman, Robles and Whitlock. All were unheralded pick-ups by Bloom, deftly used by Cora, and arguably the most valuable players on the team through the first dozen games.

 

Hopefully, if management has learned anything from the past few years, it will take steps soon to fortify this core before inevitable burn-out. Counting on meaningful contributions from Paxton and/or Sale, and thereby moving another starter to the bullpen is a longshot. Maybe some younger, flexible arms promoted from the farms can give a second-half boost...

 

I think the 15 pitchers for the month of April will lessen the "burnout" factor, especially since Cora is using them all. Only the use of Whitlock concerns me, as this is pretty much uncharted territory since Bob Stanley.

[notin]

Like Bobby V is someone anyone should listen to.

 

Blind squirrel on this one.

 

Bard wanted to start, badly. It's as much on him as Sox management, things went south so quickly.

 

It did look like Bard was instrumental in the 2011 collapse as he posted a 6.95 ERA over the last 2 months of the season, but his FIP and .650 OPSA suggest he may have pitched better.

 

At any rate, the guy took a borderline unprecedented hiatus of 7 years between MLB games, pitching on very briefly in the minors for the Mets and Cardinals. That he was able to come back at all was pretty remarkable.

 

That he took so long to come back probably indicates more physical issues than anything else. Plenty of other closers had brief flirtations with the rotation that ended badly. But none needed 7 years to get back in the game.

 

He went to the rotation because he wanted to and because the Sox wouldn’t pay for starters, opting instead to deal for closers like Andy Bailey. He flopped miserably. But good for him for bouncing back.

 

And it’s really fun to think he has now outlasted former college teammate Andrew Miller in MLB…

[Bellhorn04]

Hardly anyone in history has had a more impressive comeback from the depths than Bard. Good for him.

[moonslav59]

Hardly anyone in history has had a more impressive comeback from the depths than Bard. Good for him.

 

Impressive that he came back or impressive with his performance?

 

1.22 WHIP w BOS 2009-2013

 

1.47 WHIP w COL 2020-2022

 

I'm not sure I'd count his 6 IP in 2022 (.083 WHIP) as "impressive." It was 1.52 his previous 2 years w COL.

[Bellhorn04]

Impressive that he came back or impressive with his performance?

 

1.22 WHIP w BOS 2009-2013

 

1.47 WHIP w COL 2020-2022

 

I'm not sure I'd count his 6 IP in 2022 (.083 WHIP) as "impressive." It was 1.52 his previous 2 years w COL.

 

Impressive that he was able to pitch in MLB again.

[moonslav59]

Impressive that he was able to pitch in MLB again.

 

Agreed. When I first saw his name in the box scores, I did a doubt take and checked if it was someone with the same name.

[Maxbialystock]

Speaking of Bullpens, I am watching the closer of the Rockies, Daniel Bard -- a guy whose career was ruined by the Red Sox. He was never Starting Pitcher material. Bobby V knew it and expressed doubts to him. But Ben indulged Bard's stubbornness and it wrecked his career. Glad to see that he recovered from that destruction.

 

Thanks for that. I agree the Sox screwed him up, but, as you say, Bard badly wanted to start.

 

He has the most astounding stat sheet I can remember seeing: 5 seasons (2009-13) with the Sox; 6 seasons (2014-2019) away from MLB; 3 seasons (2020-22) with the Rockies. Boston paid him a total of $2.9M and the Rockies have paid him, including $4.4 M this year, $7.3M.

 

His UNC classmate Andrew Miller pitched for 16 years and was paid a total of $81M. In Miller's final 3 years (2019-21) at St Louis he was paid $34M while accumulating a 3 year WAR of -.5.

[notin]

Impressive that he was able to pitch in MLB again.

 

Yeah that’s the point.

 

The list of players who went 7 years between MLB appearances is extremely short. Maybe just Bard and that Braves’ utility infielder from a couple years ago who went (I think) 11 years. But unlike Bard, that guy was a minor leaguer the whole time. Bard was completely out of organized baseball save a couple dozen minor league innings in 2016-17…

[moonslav59]

Minnie Minoso missed almost 2 seasons at ages 23-24, then was out of baseball for 11 years before returning at age 50, but he just got 8 PAs (1 hit).

 

He then came back 4 years later, at age 54 for 2 PAs.

 

Not sure this should really count, but it is interesting.

[redsoxrules]

Like Bobby V is someone anyone should listen to.

 

Blind squirrel on this one.

 

Bard wanted to start, badly. It's as much on him as Sox management, things went south so quickly.

 

I thought this was the other way around. That he wanted to be in the bullpen.

 

Either way I would leave Whitclock where he is. Don't fix what's not broken. Turning him into starter could be Bard 2.0.

[notin]

Minnie Minoso missed almost 2 seasons at ages 23-24, then was out of baseball for 11 years before returning at age 50, but he just got 8 PAs (1 hit).

 

He then came back 4 years later, at age 54 for 2 PAs.

 

Not sure this should really count, but it is interesting.

 

 

But Minoso would just reappear to play in more decades. That was straight up PR stuff and not a guy making a serious comeback or displaying any measure of persistence….

[moonslav59]

But Minoso would just reappear to play in more decades. That was straight up PR stuff and not a guy making a serious comeback or displaying any measure of persistence….

 

That's why I said I wasn't sure it should count.