2022 Bullpen Thread

[notin]

Richards and Ottavino aren't "under the radar" guys.

 

 

But Andriese is?

[notin]

The under the radar guys that worked out:

Valdez - maybe? He stunk last year.

Whitlock

Sawamura

Robles

Rios

 

The under the radar guys that didn't work out:

Davis

Crawford

Andriese

Workman - return of

Brice

Weber

Brewer

Springs

Osich

Covey

Kickham

Stock

 

It's hard to rate the 2022 guys just yet. The list is loaded with the garbage pile from 2020. It remains to be seen if the 2022 looks like last year's pen or the year prior.

 

 

As down as I have been on Austin Davis, I’m not quite sure his league-average performance in 23 innings means he didn’t work out.

 

And Bloom didn’t acquire Brewer or Weber; Dombrowski did…

[moonslav59]

As down as I have been on Austin Davis, I’m not quite sure his league-average performance in 23 innings means he didn’t work out.

 

And Bloom didn’t acquire Brewer; Dombrowski did…

 

Does deciding to keep arb pitchers count as the new GM's choice?

[notin]

I agree. The Sox never led in the game. The offense was supposed to carry this team. It has not done so yet.

 

I just think the bullpen seems like an afterthought and I don't see the plan to fix it.

 

So far the pen has been average. Should fixing an average pen be a priority when the lineup is well below average?

 

I do think if the starters can start going deeper into games, the pen will improve accordingly. The one stat where the Sox bullpen does rank in the top ten is IP…

[notin]

Does deciding to keep arb pitchers count as the new GM's choice?

 

Not as an under the radar acquisition. Are we saying Bloom stealthily maintained the status quo?

[mvp 78]

But Andriese is?

 

Yes, Andriese was signed for 2.1M.

 

That's less than a quarter of what Richards and Ottavino were paid.

[mvp 78]

So far the pen has been average. Should fixing an average pen be a priority when the lineup is well below average?

 

I do think if the starters can start going deeper into games, the pen will improve accordingly. The one stat where the Sox bullpen does rank in the top ten is IP…

 

Are they average or above average?

[mvp 78]

Are they average or above average?

 

15th in fWAR, 12th in FIP, 23rd in LOB%, 26th in GB%.

[mvp 78]

15th in fWAR, 12th in FIP, 23rd in LOB%, 26th in GB%.

 

Last year: 9th in fWAR, 10th in FIP, 11th in LOB%, 4th in GB%.

 

That's an "above average" pen to me.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So far the pen has been average. Should fixing an average pen be a priority when the lineup is well below average?

 

I do think if the starters can start going deeper into games, the pen will improve accordingly. The one stat where the Sox bullpen does rank in the top ten is IP…

 

If we keep saying this, then the experts in the front office do, too. And yet, their winter plan -- except for not letting Eovaldi pitch to the bottom of the order a third time when he's still throwing 98 -- was Pivetta, who's been bad; Wacha, who's been great; Hill, who's been old; Paxton, who's been rehabbing; and Sale, who's been useless (and still might be after coming off the IL when there's a big series in Toronto).

 

Hopefully, the Sox let their best player -- Whitlock leads Boston in WAR -- stretch out that 6'5 frame and eat more relief innings as a starter asap...

[moonslav59]

Not as an under the radar acquisition. Are we saying Bloom stealthily maintained the status quo?

 

No, but ultimately, you have to choose between keeping someone under team control or acquire someone else.

 

A GM can't be blamed for not acquiring as many "under-the radar" RP'ers, if it was because he had more established ones to keep than the other situation being compared to.

 

That's why I was wondering what his success rate was with the Rays.

 

We all know they had good pens, but some was aided by pitching more innings, many times with a starter getting relief innings after an opener.

 

(I'm not doubting that Bloom did better with the pen when with the Rays, but there is a lot of context needed.)

[dgalehouse]

Simply put ; there are too many ham and eggers in the bullpen. Ham and eggers will do what ham and eggers do.

[mvp 78]

This was the first offseason that he could poach guys from the Rays. I didn't hear of him grabbing too many this offseason.

 

He needs to get in on the poaching train.

 

@KyleAGlaser

The Astros began the trend of teams cutting scouts and replacing them with video and data scouting.

 

After seeing how that approach turned out, the Astros have pivoted and are now hiring scouts at the fastest rate of any team in baseball.

[moonslav59]

Simply put ; there are too many ham and eggers in the bullpen. Ham and eggers will do what ham and eggers do.

 

Get fried?

[mvp 78]

Simply put ; there are too many ham and eggers in the bullpen. Ham and eggers will do what ham and eggers do.

 

Both are bad for my blood pressure.

[notin]

Yes, Andriese was signed for 2.1M.

 

That's less than a quarter of what Richards and Ottavino were paid.

 

He was also an established MLB relief pitcher. What is the definition of “under the radar”?

[mvp 78]

He was also an established MLB relief pitcher. What is the definition of “under the radar”?

 

Someone you'd ignore when they were signed. I don't think anyone expected much out of him that offseason. Him working with Whitlock more than made up for his salary though.

[notin]

Last year: 9th in fWAR, 10th in FIP, 11th in LOB%, 4th in GB%.

 

That's an "above average" pen to me.

 

This year, they’re like 13-16 in all those categories. I’d call them average.

 

Certainly I’d like them to excel, but if the biggest weakness is an average pen, you have a pretty good team…

[notin]

Someone you'd ignore when they were signed. I don't think anyone expected much out of him that offseason. Him working with Whitlock more than made up for his salary though.

 

Some of the Sox under-the-radar acquisitions - notably Diekman and Robles - have closing experience. Diekman has had a decent career as a largely ignored pitcher.

 

I like what I’ve seen from Strahm for the most part. This is inspire of the fact that I actually prefer not actually seeing the remarkably ugly Strahm…

[mvp 78]

This year, they’re like 13-16 in all those categories. I’d call them average.

 

Certainly I’d like them to excel, but if the biggest weakness is an average pen, you have a pretty good team…

 

Half.

 

15th in fWAR, 12th in FIP, 23rd in LOB%, 26th in GB%.

 

Average of those 4 is 19. 15/16 is midpoint.

 

It's still early, but they seem like an "average" pen to me. I wouldn't say above average though. Not yet anyway.

[notin]

Half.

 

15th in fWAR, 12th in FIP, 23rd in LOB%, 26th in GB%.

 

Average of those 4 is 19. 15/16 is midpoint.

 

It's still early, but they seem like an "average" pen to me. I wouldn't say above average though. Not yet anyway.

 

I didn’t look at GB% or LOB%, although both are very good metrics.

 

I also didn’t look at K% or K/BB…

[mvp 78]

Some of the Sox under-the-radar acquisitions - notably Diekman and Robles - have closing experience. Diekman has had a decent career as a largely ignored pitcher.

 

I like what I’ve seen from Strahm for the most part. This is inspire of the fact that I actually prefer not actually seeing the remarkably ugly Strahm…

 

https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1518982380165468160

 

Sox have used Diekman and Robles the most as their highest leverage closers. For some unknown reason, they keep putting Brasier in that position too.

 

Diekman's way too early 6.28 FIP portends for some correction though.

[mvp 78]

I didn’t look at GB% or LOB%, although both are very good metrics.

 

I also didn’t look at K% or K/BB…

 

Don't you go mooning up my post.

[moonslav59]

Game by Game Breakdown

 

Starters IP/ER vs Relievers IP/ER

 

SP- RP

L 5.0/3 - 5.0/1 (2 ghost runs allowed)

L 5.2/4 - 2.1/0

W 3.1/3 - 5.2/1

L 4.1/1 - 3.2/2

W 4.1/3 - 4.2/0

W 5.0/2 - 4.0/5

L 2.0/5 - 7.0/4

W 5.2/0 - 3.1/0

W 5.0/0 - 4.0/1

L 4.2/4 - 4.1/4

W 4.2/1 - 4.1/1

L 4.0/5 - 5.0/1

L 5.0/2 - 4.0/1

W 5.0/2- 4.0/0

L 4.0/0- 5.2/3

L 4.0/ 0- 4.0/5

L 7.0/2- 1.0/4

 

The pen has done better in 8 games.

The starters have done better in 7.

They did about the same in 2 games.

 

The pen as done okay to well in 11 games.

The starters have done okay to well in 10 games.

 

Updated. The starters are catching up.

[Kimmi]

The Sox bullpen is average. They rank in the middle of the pack using any metric you like - ERA, fWAR, FIP, xFIP.

 

The problem is still a lineup that hasn’t scored as many as 4 runs in a game for 8 straight games. That this average bullpen has more fWAR than the offense should speak volumes about where the trouble is, and one game doesn’t change this…

 

^^^ 100%

 

Especially since the offense was supposed to our strength.

[Kimmi]

I agree. The Sox never led in the game. The offense was supposed to carry this team. It has not done so yet.

 

I just think the bullpen seems like an afterthought and I don't see the plan to fix it.

 

I don't think the bullpen was an afterthought. I just think that Bloom has a different idea about building a bullpen than most posters here do.

[Old Red]

Diekman said he didn’t give 2 blankity blanks about being the closer after he struck out the side against the Yankees earlier in the season. I guess he really meant it.

[Tedballgame]

Robles should be the closer. Except for Story's error against TB, he hasn't given up much of anything in 20 some straight regular season appearances.

[notin]

Robles should be the closer. Except for Story's error against TB, he hasn't given up much of anything in 20 some straight regular season appearances.

 

Robles was brought in last night to face Bichette, Vlad, Kirk, etc.

 

If you relegate him to the ninth inning, who do you suggest faces these guys? Diekman had a lucky break with getting to face the 7-8-9 hitters and got beaten. But I don’t think you necessarily get a better result by letting Diekman face the heart of the order and save Robles for the bottom…

[notin]

I don't think the bullpen was an afterthought. I just think that Bloom has a different idea about building a bullpen than most posters here do.

 

It was clearly not an afterthought. Until Story was signed in March, the only new MLB players Blom signed were relievers…