2022 Bullpen Thread

[Larry Cook]

That would be very surprising, but with Bogey's no-trade clause, they'd need him to okay a trade, either way, and maybe this posturing made that an easier aspect of the idea.

 

Hasn’t boras had his client waive this previously?

[moonslav59]

Hasn’t boras had his client waive this previously?

 

Yes, and other agents and players have done it often.

[Larry Cook]

Yes, and other agents and players have done it often.

 

I smell a huge opportunity for hang’em Chaim to get us back under the cap and keep restocking the farm.

[notin]

Hasn’t boras had his client waive this previously?

 

Boras has no say in whether or not any client waives a No Trade Clause. Even if Boras advised against it, Bogaerts could waive it and all Scott could do is read about it on Yahoo sports…

[Bellhorn04]

The way everyone is talking it sounds like everyone is expecting the Red Sox to be out of playoff contention, so might as well trade everyone. Well if that’s the case then let’s do it right, and trade Raffy too. 9 games into the season, and all the trade talk already. WOW! And then of course everyone is just assuming Bogey will wave his NO TRADE. That is a lot of assumptions. Once again Wow! Glad the Celtics are on, because there ain’t no sense watching this team anymore.

 

I'm with you on this one, Old Red. I don't understand guys getting excited about trading Bogey. Last year we went through the same thing for a while with guys who wanted to trade Barnes.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm with you on this one, Old Red. I don't understand guys getting excited about trading Bogey. Last year we went through the same thing for a while with guys who wanted to trade Barnes.

 

Look at it more as a split fandom over tradition and new philosophy. Everyone wants their team to win, but most will admit a big part of being a fan is rooting for and identifying with favorite players. And it's not just old guys, but even younger fans growing up after the end of the reserve clause...

 

Though many posters favor Bloom's fiscally-sound approach, it's not blasphemy for others to view it as sometimes cutthroat. Few posters actually want to trade Bogaerts, but most will understand decisions made in the best interests of the ballclub. I don't think Barnes inconsistent history had quite as many worried about his status last summer...

[Bellhorn04]

Look at it more as a split fandom over tradition and new philosophy. Everyone wants their team to win, but most will admit a big part of being a fan is rooting for and identifying with favorite players. And it's not just old guys, but even younger fans growing up after the end of the reserve clause...

 

Though many posters favor Bloom's fiscally-sound approach, it's not blasphemy for others to view it as sometimes cutthroat. Few posters actually want to trade Bogaerts, but most will understand decisions made in the best interests of the ballclub. I don't think Barnes inconsistent history had quite as many worried about his status last summer...

 

I firmly subscribe to the principle that you don't trade good players when you're still in the hunt. The one exception we've seen was Nomar, but as I said, that was actually intended to upgrade the 2004 team's chances to win a ring.

 

The talk about trading Barnes last year started when he was really going good.

[notin]

I firmly subscribe to the principle that you don't trade good players when you're still in the hunt. The one exception we've seen was Nomar, but as I said, that was actually intended to upgrade the 2004 team's chances to win a ring.

 

The talk about trading Barnes last year started when he was really going good.

 

And if the Sox can trade Bogaerts and it leads to a ring, I’m all for it. Aren’t you?

 

I don’t expect him to get dealt. And I’d be surprised if he was and the Sox won it all…

[sk7326]

Hasn’t boras had his client waive this previously?

 

Yes ... a no-trade clause is really a "don't trade me without paying for it"

[Bellhorn04]

And if the Sox can trade Bogaerts and it leads to a ring, I’m all for it. Aren’t you?

 

That's an incalculable if. Bogaerts is nothing like 2004 Nomar.

 

So no, simply put.

[sk7326]

Boras has no say in whether or not any client waives a No Trade Clause. Even if Boras advised against it, Bogaerts could waive it and all Scott could do is read about it on Yahoo sports…

 

People don't hire Boras because they dislike his advice.

[notin]

People don't hire Boras because they dislike his advice.

 

True. Which does make Bogaerts’ opt out inevitable.

 

But at the end of the day, all decisions are in the hands of Bogaerts. The original question was whether or not Boras has had his clients waive NTC’s. And he can’t have them do it or not do it. He’s an adviser and a negotiator and, to Bogaerts anyway, an employee. What he is not is a decision maker…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That's an incalculable if. Bogaerts is nothing like 2004 Nomar.

 

So no, simply put.

 

Not as a Red Sox ambassador; Nomar always looked and sounded like he was annoyed having to deal with the press, while Bogey comes off as a friendly guy, happy to be a pro player in Boston.

 

But Nomar pouting about his contract situation became a drag in '04, as much as his diminished range at shortstop. Xander seems to be above such distractions... thus far.

[notin]

That's an incalculable if. Bogaerts is nothing like 2004 Nomar.

 

So no, simply put.

 

 

Based on what?

 

Stories written by people you don’t know about other people you don’t know?

 

Nomar was the better hitter and the better fielder. And like X, he wanted to be paid accordingly with his peers….

[mvp 78]

Based on what?

 

Stories written by people you don’t know about other people you don’t know?

 

Nomar was the better hitter and the better fielder. And like X, he wanted to be paid accordingly with his peers….

 

After the SI cover, he was never the same player again. Xander is a better fielder and hitter in 2022 than Nomar was in 2004.

[sk7326]

True. Which does make Bogaerts’ opt out inevitable.

 

But at the end of the day, all decisions are in the hands of Bogaerts. The original question was whether or not Boras has had his clients waive NTC’s. And he can’t have them do it or not do it. He’s an adviser and a negotiator and, to Bogaerts anyway, an employee. What he is not is a decision maker…

 

I think it's possible - but you don't waive NTCs for nothing, and no reason for Bogaerts to be the first. It's going to be to go somewhere he wants to be - or it's going to require giving Bogaerts more money. Either way, the Red Sox are on a 90-win pace and in a position to make the tournament and nobody is/should be dealing Bogaerts under those circumstances.

[notin]

After the SI cover, he was never the same player again. Xander is a better fielder and hitter in 2022 than Nomar was in 2004.

 

It’s a bit early, but Nomar’s OPS in 2004 of .867 with Boston does tell a different story. It’s probably close to where X might be, but right now he isn’t there yet…

[Old Red]

Based on what?

 

Stories written by people you don’t know about other people you don’t know?

 

Nomar was the better hitter and the better fielder. And like X, he wanted to be paid accordingly with his peers….

 

Some players have a shelf life in Boston, and Normar was at that point. I remember Nomar sitting in the dugout in Yankee Stadium sulking while Jeter was diving into the stands headfirst going after a foul ball. Bogey, and Nomar is nowhere near a good comparison, and Bogey has plenty of shelf life left.

[Bellhorn04]

Based on what?

 

Stories written by people you don’t know about other people you don’t know?

 

Nomar was the better hitter and the better fielder. And like X, he wanted to be paid accordingly with his peers….

 

Maybe you need a refresher on why Nomar was traded.

[mvp 78]

It’s a bit early, but Nomar’s OPS in 2004 of .867 with Boston does tell a different story. It’s probably close to where X might be, but right now he isn’t there yet…

 

118 OPS+ and 121 WRC+ for Nomar with Sox in 2004

131 OPS+ and 127 WRC+ for Xander in 2022

[mvp 78]

Some players have a shelf life in Boston, and Normar was at that point. I remember Nomar sitting in the dugout in Yankee Stadium sulking while Jeter was diving into the stands headfirst going after a foul ball. Bogey, and Nomar is nowhere near a good comparison, and Bogey has plenty of shelf life left.

 

It really started off with him making a mess in his diaper in Spring Training that year.

[notin]

118 OPS+ and 121 WRC+ for Nomar with Sox in 2004

131 OPS+ and 127 WRC+ for Xander in 2022

 

Xander’s OPS+ after less than a dozen games might not be as relevant. Let’s see where he is after 80 games. That a .785 is 31% above league average might be more attributable to a lack of spring training…

[notin]

Some players have a shelf life in Boston, and Normar was at that point. I remember Nomar sitting in the dugout in Yankee Stadium sulking while Jeter was diving into the stands headfirst going after a foul ball. Bogey, and Nomar is nowhere near a good comparison, and Bogey has plenty of shelf life left.

 

 

I also remember there were issues with his contract and the Sox offered Nomar 4 years/ $60 mill while the Yankees offered Jeter 10 years / $189mill.

 

It’s odd that in 2004 we just blame the player for the sun-market contract but in 2022 we blame management….

[notin]

I think it's possible - but you don't waive NTCs for nothing, and no reason for Bogaerts to be the first. It's going to be to go somewhere he wants to be - or it's going to require giving Bogaerts more money. Either way, the Red Sox are on a 90-win pace and in a position to make the tournament and nobody is/should be dealing Bogaerts under those circumstances.

 

 

I think the only way the Sox trade Bogaerts is if they fall out of it. Unless they work out a deal between now and the trade deadline.

 

And if they do fall out of it, Bogaerts has no team options to incentivize him to waive his NTC. It will just come down to whether or not he wants to move on to a contender or play out the string in Boston…

[mvp 78]

Xander’s OPS+ after less than a dozen games might not be as relevant. Let’s see where he is after 80 games. That a .785 is 31% above league average might be more attributable to a lack of spring training…

 

Since 2018, his lowest OPS+ was 126, which is still higher than Nomar's 121.

[notin]

Maybe you need a refresher on why Nomar was traded.

 

He was upset with the contract extension offer made by Boston. That actually sounds similar…

[mvp 78]

I think the only way the Sox trade Bogaerts is if they fall out of it. Unless they work out a deal between now and the trade deadline.

 

And if they do fall out of it, Bogaerts has no team options to incentivize him to waive his NTC. It will just come down to whether or not he wants to move on to a contender or play out the string in Boston…

 

Could earn a bigger payday with some meaningful October AB's.

[notin]

Could earn a bigger payday with some meaningful October AB's.

 

 

Possible.

 

And if the Sox are out of it, he will need to approve that opportunity himself…

[Old Red]

I also remember there were issues with his contract and the Sox offered Nomar 4 years/ $60 mill while the Yankees offered Jeter 10 years / $189mill.

 

It’s odd that in 2004 we just blame the player for the sun-market contract but in 2022 we blame management….

 

Exactly. Two entirely different situations outside of the contract. The contract is not the only thing.

[mvp 78]

Possible.

 

And if the Sox are out of it, he will need to approve that opportunity himself…

 

Yes, ultimately it's up to him.