2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[moonslav59]

Beckett was never a free agent. Extensions are a different matter since the player can only negotiate with one team…

 

True. I keep thinking we extended Eovaldi, but we did not. He became a FA, first.

 

You did say "free agent," but I missed that.

[Bellhorn04]

I have no problems with the Sox offering 4 years $90 mill, as long as it’s not their final offer.

 

But at a minimum, Bogaerts is going to command Marcus Semien money, and he might be looking for (and might even get) something a bit closer to Corey Seager money…

 

Bogey will be about 2.5 years older at the start of next season than Seager is now.

[moonslav59]

According to cots, these are our biggest FA pitcher signings:

 

$217/7 Price '16

$82.5/5 Lackey '10

$68.0/4 Eovaldi '19

$26.5/2 Dempster '13 (retired after 2013)

$25.5/4 Foulke '04

$25.5/3 Clement '05

$18.0/2 Uehara '15

$13.9/3 Viola '92

 

Not much of a history.

 

We are more known for big extensions: Pedro, Lester, Beckett, Porcello, Sale... and the Dice-K addition.

 

We are most known for trading for aces or good pitching:

 

Pedro

Schilling

Beckett

Porcello

Sale

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Bogey will be about 2.5 years older at the start of next season than Seager is now.

 

I think the defense might hurt his chances of approaching Seager money, too.

 

Also, Correa will likely be on the market, again, too. T Turner, too.

[notin]

You may have no problem with the Sox offering Bogey 4 years $90M, but I’m sure Bogey did. You could tell in his interview that he sounded down, and dejected.

 

 

And if the second offers comes through and looks a whole lot better, he’ll perk up. In the meantime, maybe his agent can explain how negotiations work and that he (the agent) will take care of this…

[Old Red]

I have no problems with the Sox offering 4 years $90 mill, as long as it’s not their final offer.

 

But at a minimum, Bogaerts is going to command Marcus Semien money, and he might be looking for (and might even get) something a bit closer to Corey Seager money…

 

The last report I heard was that all the Red Sox were offering was an extra year on his existing contract of $30M to bring the total up to $90M. Who knows if the report is accurate, or not. That’s why it was good when Cashman came out, and said what the Yankees offered Judge.

[moonslav59]

And if the second offers comes through and looks a whole lot better, he’ll perk up. In the meantime, maybe his agent can explain how negotiations work and that he (the agent) will take care of this…

 

It was still a pretty lame offer- like Lester's.

 

It's not a good start and sends a clear signal, IMO.

[Old Red]

It was still a pretty lame offer- like Lester's.

 

It's not a good start and sends a clear signal, IMO.

 

It was lower than lowballing. Like I read in a report that the hand writing isn’t on the wall, but is spray painted in fluorescent colors for Bogey.

[notin]

It was lower than lowballing. Like I read in a report that the hand writing isn’t on the wall, but is spray painted in fluorescent colors for Bogey.

 

I have my doubts about the accuracy of the report, given that X is represented by Captain Mystery Team. Since there is no way the Sox would publicize making a small offer, we already know which camp leaked it. So now it comes down to whether or not you find that camp trustworthy…

[moonslav59]

I have my doubts about the accuracy of the report, given that X is represented by Captain Mystery Team. Since there is no way the Sox would publicize making a small offer, we already know which camp leaked it. So now it comes down to whether or not you find that camp trustworthy…

 

Well, lying about a low-ball offer is not going to want the Sox to want to sign Bogey, so they'd lose a big bidder with nothing gained.

[Old Red]

I have my doubts about the accuracy of the report, given that X is represented by Captain Mystery Team. Since there is no way the Sox would publicize making a small offer, we already know which camp leaked it. So now it comes down to whether or not you find that camp trustworthy…

 

With the Sox past history with Lester, and the way Bogey reacted when asked about his contract, I’ll go with the Bogey camp for the moment.

[notin]

With the Sox past history with Lester, and the way Bogey reacted when asked about his contract, I’ll go with the Bogey camp for the moment.

 

Lester was three front offices ago. Things may not be the same.

 

I don’t find it hard to believe the Sox first offer was lower than Bogarts and Boras expected. But I do find it hard to believe it was lower than the offer to Story…

[notin]

Well, lying about a low-ball offer is not going to want the Sox to want to sign Bogey, so they'd lose a big bidder with nothing gained.

 

I doubt the Sox (or any team) take a Scott Boras press release all that seriously. And certainly not as a reason to break off talks…

[Bellhorn04]

Well of course now fans will be demanding to know what the offer to Devers was...

[moonslav59]

I doubt the Sox (or any team) take a Scott Boras press release all that seriously. And certainly not as a reason to break off talks…

 

There is nothing to gain by BorA$$ (and Bogey) to lie about this.

[Old Red]

Lester was three front offices ago. Things may not be the same.

 

I don’t find it hard to believe the Sox first offer was lower than Bogarts and Boras expected. But I do find it hard to believe it was lower than the offer to Story…

 

You’re right about Lester, and I hope you’re right about the offer to Bogey. I would hate to think that the Red Sox were that low to just offer Bogey to extend his present contract by 1 year, and just add $30M to it. Now if they wanted to add 3 more years at $30M I think that would be a reasonable offer. Probably wouldn’t be good enough, but at least to me would be a somewhat reasonable offer. As much as I would like to see Bogey stay I would not pay him for 8 yrs at $30M per.

[Old Red]

There is nothing to gain by BorA$$ (and Bogey) to lie about this.

 

I don’t see Bloom any time soon pulling a Cashman, and saying what the offer was, but I agree.

[Kimmi]

I don't really lament losing E-Rod. He has always been somewhat overrated. He has had his moments, but he is a 4.00 + career ERA guy. There is no shortage of those.

 

ERod was often extremely frustrating to watch. That said, he really was one of the unluckiest pitchers last year, and has been unlucky over most of his career. In other words, he has pitched better than his ERA and some other results might suggest.

[Kimmi]

It's hard to project who Bloom might choose as his first large and long pitcher signing.

 

I would guess that Bloom would lean more towards trading for a younger, cost-controlled pitcher, then try to extend him into 2-3 free agency years. I'm not necessarily talking about an ace, but a solid #2 or #3. Bloom doesn't strike me as someone who's going to go large and long on a pitcher nearing or entering his 30s.

[Kimmi]

I would go all out to extend Devers before going large and long on a starting pitcher. Much safer investment.

 

I would also. Not that I would go crazy on a Devers extension either, but I'd go crazy on a Devers extension before I'd go crazy on a pitcher's contract.

[Kimmi]

I have no problems with the Sox offering 4 years $90 mill, as long as it’s not their final offer.

 

But at a minimum, Bogaerts is going to command Marcus Semien money, and he might be looking for (and might even get) something a bit closer to Corey Seager money…

 

If that is indeed what the Sox offered Bogaerts, I think it's along the lines of the offer to Lester. Not good.

[Kimmi]

I don’t see Bloom any time soon pulling a Cashman, and saying what the offer was, but I agree.

 

I don't think Bloom should disclose what the offer was. Nor do I think Cashman was right to do so. It's almost like Cashman is trying to paint Judge in a bad light with the fans. It seems to have worked also. The boos have been raining down on him.

 

FTR, I think Cashman's offer was very fair, and I think Judge's demands are unreasonable. But that still doesn't make it right for Cashman to publicly announce what his offer was.

[notin]

If that is indeed what the Sox offered Bogaerts, I think it's along the lines of the offer to Lester. Not good.

 

Oh no one thinks it was a good offer; to me that doesn’t matter as long as it’s not the final offer.

 

If it was a final offer, then it is abundantly clear they do not envision Bogaerts as a significant part of the future of this team. Maybe they feel the same way about Devers. Maybe not. But I do think these players are being evaluated independent of each other…

[moonslav59]

I would guess that Bloom would lean more towards trading for a younger, cost-controlled pitcher, then try to extend him into 2-3 free agency years. I'm not necessarily talking about an ace, but a solid #2 or #3. Bloom doesn't strike me as someone who's going to go large and long on a pitcher nearing or entering his 30s.

 

This is what the Sox are known for doing. (Not always "young," but they trade for their aces and #2's a lot.

[moonslav59]

If you adjust for inflation, 2 of the larges and longest 5 (or 6) deals under Henry were for starting pitchers:

 

$217/7 Price

$142/7 Crawford

$110/5 JD M

$95.0/5 Pablito

$88.0/4 HRam (Is 4 years long term?)

$82.5/5 Lackey (Does 5 years of inflation catch HRam?)

 

3 of top 8 (add JD Drew and Eovaldi)

[Old Red]

I don't think Bloom should disclose what the offer was. Nor do I think Cashman was right to do so. It's almost like Cashman is trying to paint Judge in a bad light with the fans. It seems to have worked also. The boos have been raining down on him.

 

FTR, I think Cashman's offer was very fair, and I think Judge's demands are unreasonable. But that still doesn't make it right for Cashman to publicly announce what his offer was.

 

I get what you are saying, but I personally think the fans have a right to know what’s going on. It came out that Soto turned down a 13 yr 300M+ contract.

[moonslav59]

Here's a closer look at Sox big spending (Free Agents, IFAs & Extensions) since 2007:

 

(Help me fill in any missing big deals.)

 

2007:

$70M/5 JD Drew

$52M/4 Papi

$52M/6 Dice-K (plus mega posting fee)

$36M/4 Lugo

$30M/3 Beckett

 

2008:

$38M/3 Lowell

 

2009:

$41M/4 Youk

$41M/6 Pedey

$30M/5 Lester

 

2010:

$83M/5 Lackey

 

2011:

$142M/7 Crawford

$68M/4 Beckett

 

2012:

$154M/7 AGon

$30M/4 Buchholz

 

2013:

$39M/3 Vic

$27M/2 Dempster

$26M/2 Ortiz

 

2014:

$110m/8 Pedey

$73M/7 Rusney

$32M/2 Napoli

 

2015:

$95M/5 Pablito

$88M/4 HRam

$32M bonus Moncada (plus mega posting fee)

$18M/2 Uehara

 

2016:

$217/7 Price

$83M/4 Porcello

$16M/1 Ortiz

 

2017:

 

2018:

$110M/5 JD M

 

2019:

$68M/4 Eovaldi

$20M/1 Betts (arb)

$12M/1 Bogey (arb)

 

2020:

$145M/5 Sale

$120M/6 Bogey

 

2021:

$14M/2 Kike

$10M/1 Richards

 

2022:

$140M/6 Story

$19M/2 Barnes

$10M/1 Paxton

[mvp 78]

I get what you are saying, but I personally think the fans have a right to know what’s going on. It came out that Soto turned down a 13 yr 300M+ contract.

 

Anything under 30M AAV is an underpayment for Soto considering his age.

[Bellhorn04]

Anything under 30M AAV is an underpayment for Soto considering his age.

 

Wander Franco's AAV is 16.5 million, and he's more than 2 years younger.

 

I think you're oversimplifying a bit. A total contract of 300 million plus is a huge offer no matter what the AAV.

[Old Red]

Anything under 30M AAV is an underpayment for Soto considering his age.

 

When ANYONE turns down $300M+ to me is just a bad look no matter how much per yr it is.