Will there be a 2022 season?

[mvp 78]

Yes you could apply to other entertainment industries, but we’re talking about baseball. Yes there is money being made off these players, but like I said the owners put on the show. Why don’t the players put on there own show? Just like there is big differences on what owners spend on payroll there is big differences on what players make, and that’s why the average salary gets up to $4M+. What do you call a max contract, and what would you limit?

 

No, it's the same thing exact thing as the entertainment industry.

 

More than 2/3's of players to appear in MLB make minimum or less.

[notin]

The owners obviously feel they don't lose much by cancelling ST. Also, revenues in April? big deal. Players lose paycheck; owners? meh. What will get their attention is players' willingness to lose months if not the entire season. When the value of their leveraged franchises craters, maybe all this macho posturing will end. Surely some of the owners/stockholders are going to say--we are making millions and millions in this business. Why risk that just to proclaim victory over our employees?

 

Actually April is typically MLBs best month, since no one is eliminated yet. It’s why we still have the occasional snowed out game. Teams in colder climates don’t want to give up the April gates…

[mvp 78]

Actually April is typically MLBs best month, since no one is eliminated yet. It’s why we still have the occasional snowed out game. Teams in colder climates don’t want to give up the April gates…

 

No. July is typically MLB's best attendance month. Summer vacation. Good weather.

[Old Red]

No, it's the same thing exact thing as the entertainment industry.

 

More than 2/3's of players to appear in MLB make minimum or less.

 

I did NOT say it wasn’t the same thing. I just said we were talking about baseball. I don’t really care what percent makes what either for the owners, or the players. I say if the owners can’t afford, or want to pay a payroll to make them competitive then sell to someone who can, and if a player can’t live off what he gets payed then go find another job that he can.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This is the ONLY issue in which I have any sympathy for the owners. Unlike the usual issues in negotiations this pool is something entirely new. The players started a $100M and the owners started at $0, This was the expected starting point for the owners since it was something new. IMO $100M was a pie-in-the-sky starting point but I would expect the owners to meet them half way as their final offer on the issue. However, their $10M offer is an insult and borders on not bargaining in good faith.

 

Good Faith is just a cover band for these oxymorons. But for this particular ish, someone for the union is going to have to convince the others to accept whatever -- $40 or $50 Million dollars is 40 or 50 more than any previous pool they never had. And any good young player afraid to bet on himself can still trade some primetime for a longterm $80 or $100M contract instead of $300M later.

 

So they'll only be set for life, but maybe not their great grandchildren (unless their grandchildren invested well). I think Luis Severino signed for about $50M when he was 24, and then he blew out his elbow; does anyone think he has any regrets?

[mvp 78]

Actually April is typically MLBs best month, since no one is eliminated yet. It’s why we still have the occasional snowed out game. Teams in colder climates don’t want to give up the April gates…

 

No. July is typically MLB's best attendance month. Summer vacation. Good weather.

 

Maybe tv viewership is a little higher in April?

[jad]

Actually April is typically MLBs best month, since no one is eliminated yet. It’s why we still have the occasional snowed out game. Teams in colder climates don’t want to give up the April gates…

 

This makes 0 sense to me (not because I disagree, but because I cannot follow it). "Because" no one is eliminated, THEREFORE it is MLB's 'best' month???? And that (what????) is the reason we have snowed out games????? (My head is exploding).

[moonslav59]

Yes you could apply to other entertainment industries, but we’re talking about baseball. Yes there is money being made off these players, but like I said the owners put on the show. Why don’t the players put on there own show? Just like there is big differences on what owners spend on payroll there is big differences on what players make, and that’s why the average salary gets up to $4M+. What do you call a max contract, and what would you limit?

 

Again, I get your point: I just disagree.

 

My max might be 7 or 8 times the league average salary, the year before.

 

This might begin a new era in free agency as several teams might make the same "top offer" to a free agent, and the player may actually select a team based on something other than money.

 

I might allow the team having the rights to the free agent-to-be a chance to offer $1M more than the max. (Then, we'll find out just how much players liked their old team.)

[moonslav59]

I think the players did a s***** job in the last 2 CBA's and now they're trying to make up for it. Where were all the concerns about minimum salaries and tax threshold increases then?

 

Now they're looking for big increases.

 

s***** negotiating is s***** negotiating.

 

Agreed. They botched the last two, but asking to make up for inflation over those last years is not an absurd or unreasonable starting point.

[moonslav59]

No, it's the same thing exact thing as the entertainment industry.

 

More than 2/3's of players to appear in MLB make minimum or less.

 

Exactly, and many entertainers don't "run their own show."

[Old Red]

Exactly, and many entertainers don't "run their own show."

 

That’s my point that both sides need each other, and the owners like it, or not control the purse strings. The players are the show, but the owners put on the show.

[jad]

That’s my point that both sides need each other, and the owners like it, or not control the purse strings. The players are the show, but the owners put on the show.

 

No they don't. They pass out money to those who put on the show. The owners 'do' no more than we do when we are paid interest on our bank accounts.

[mvp 78]

It would be nice if we could actually talk about baseball rather than the owners vs players drama. Maybe someday...

[notin]

No. July is typically MLB's best attendance month. Summer vacation. Good weather.

 

Maybe tv viewership is a little higher in April?

 

I remember an interview with Rob Manfred back when the Guardians (now Guardians) had to play some snowed out make up games in a neutral site. The question was asked “why not just start the season in the warmer cities?” And Manfred responded that April was the best month and no team wanted to give up April home games…

[mvp 78]

I remember an interview with Rob Manfred back when the Guardians (now Guardians) had to play some snowed out make up games in a neutral site. The question was asked “why not just start the season in the warmer cities?” And Manfred responded that April was the best month and no team wanted to give up April home games…

 

He's a liar.

 

https://jordanbean.medium.com/analyzing-mlb-attendance-and-temperature-6cb2b1af2bd4

 

https://eda.seas.gwu.edu/showcase/2020-Spring/mlb_attendance.html

 

https://towardsdatascience.com/predicting-mlb-game-attendance-c36cdc1b8de6

[moonslav59]

That’s my point that both sides need each other, and the owners like it, or not control the purse strings. The players are the show, but the owners put on the show.

 

You keep acting like I don't understand your point. I do.

 

I just disagree.

 

Look, I get how many owners take the vast chunk of revenue, and some lose on their quest to make their business successful. I just think they take and demand too much. You don't.

 

No MLB owner loses money when they sell their team- at least as long as I have been around. Even if the lose a few million here and there, which I doubt, there is no risk at losing money, overall, IMO, and that's one thing that what sets this business apart from many others.

[moonslav59]

He's a liar.

 

https://jordanbean.medium.com/analyzing-mlb-attendance-and-temperature-6cb2b1af2bd4

 

https://eda.seas.gwu.edu/showcase/2020-Spring/mlb_attendance.html

 

https://towardsdatascience.com/predicting-mlb-game-attendance-c36cdc1b8de6

 

I'm not sure anyone is doubting he's a big fat liar.

[Bellhorn04]

You keep acting like I don't understand your point. I do.

 

I just disagree.

 

Look, I get how many owners take the vast chunk of revenue, and some lose on their quest to make their business successful. I just think they take and demand too much. You don't.

 

No MLB owner loses money when they sell their team- at least as long as I have been around. Even if the lose a few million here and there, which I doubt, there is no risk at losing money, overall, IMO, and that's one thing that what sets this business apart from many others.

 

And yet, how can we say the game is in big trouble on one hand, and say there's no risk in owning a team on the other?

 

There is definitely risk. We just haven't seen anyone get burned by it yet.

[moonslav59]

And yet, how can we say the game is in big trouble on one hand, and say there's no risk in owning a team on the other?

 

There is definitely risk. We just haven't seen anyone get burned by it yet.

 

There is NO risk of a MLB owner losing money, unless they blow up their own business.

[mvp 78]

And yet, how can we say the game is in big trouble on one hand, and say there's no risk in owning a team on the other?

 

There is definitely risk. We just haven't seen anyone get burned by it yet.

 

Until the value of owning a franchise reverses course, it's an investment that will pay out at some point.

[notin]

He's a liar.

 

https://jordanbean.medium.com/analyzing-mlb-attendance-and-temperature-6cb2b1af2bd4

 

https://eda.seas.gwu.edu/showcase/2020-Spring/mlb_attendance.html

 

https://towardsdatascience.com/predicting-mlb-game-attendance-c36cdc1b8de6

 

Maybe he just doesn’t know how to read calendar. We know he doesn’t know how to run a baseball league or negotiate a collective bargaining agreement. I doubt the list of things he doesn’t know how to do stops there…

[moonslav59]

Until the value of owning a franchise reverses course, it's an investment that will pay out at some point.

 

Can anyone name the owner and date of the last time an owner sold his team for a loss?

[moonslav59]

Can anyone name the owner and date of the last time an owner sold his team for a loss?

 

Maybe Marge Schott under extenuating circumstances?

[mvp 78]

Maybe Marge Schott under extenuating circumstances?

 

She bought controlling interest for 11M in 1984. Sold for 67M in 1999.

[Nick]

We're being too simplistic.

 

It's always about the opportunity cost.

 

Big question is if you have $1B to invest, do you pick a baseball franchise or simply invest it elsewhere?

 

It's foolhardy to think you can lose money and think you're okay with it because somehow the 'value' is going up. Only way that's happening is inflation.

 

No one, not one single capitalist wants to lose money. Period.

 

I am sure some smart people have figured out where the point of no return is for 2022 baseball season. Apparently, we're not there yet.

[mvp 78]

We're being too simplistic.

 

It's always about the opportunity cost.

 

Big question is if you have $1B to invest, do you pick a baseball franchise or simply invest it elsewhere?

 

It's foolhardy to think you can lose money and think you're okay with it because somehow the 'value' is going up. Only way that's happening is inflation.

 

No one, not one single capitalist wants to lose money. Period.

 

I am sure some smart people have figured out where the point of no return is for 2022 baseball season. Apparently, we're not there yet.

 

Owners won't lose money. They'll just earn less this year. They are doing this to reduce operating costs in the future.

[Nick]

She bought controlling interest for 11M in 1984. Sold for 67M in 1999.

 

So basically a 12% return not factoring in inflation. Could she have done better with her money elsewhere?

[moonslav59]

So basically a 12% return not factoring in inflation. Could she have done better with her money elsewhere?

 

I thought my math was bad!

[mvp 78]

So basically a 12% return not factoring in inflation. Could she have done better with her money elsewhere?

 

The Dow for that specific time period.

 

1999 was prior to the first dot com bubble bursting.

[Bellhorn04]

There is NO risk of a MLB owner losing money, unless they blow up their own business.

 

Then the future of the game must still be in great shape...