Will there be a 2022 season?

[moonslav59]

And, then there's this...

 

...the international draft has become a key sticking point (Twitter links). He hears that the league considers it a crucial feature of any agreement but the union still has concerns about its inclusion in a deal.

[jad]

Is this now the 4th deadline of threatened loss of MLB games, or did I miss 1 or 2?

 

I love MLB's 'threats' (i.e., cancelling games), each one of which results in further losses to the owners themselves. It's like Monty Python's fierce knight: 'I'll fight you with one arm cut off. I'll fight you with NO arms. ..."

[mvp 78]

Obviously no one wants to see the best 1200 players replaced by the next 1200 players.

 

By the same token, I'd rather not see John Henry replaced by Angelos or Moreno.

 

The whole argument is just plain dumb!

 

Pass on rebuttal.

[mvp 78]

And, then there's this...

 

...the international draft has become a key sticking point (Twitter links). He hears that the league considers it a crucial feature of any agreement but the union still has concerns about its inclusion in a deal.

 

Why would this get added to the CBA if the Int'l guys aren't included in the union until they are on a 40 man?

[mvp 78]

I love MLB's 'threats' (i.e., cancelling games), each one of which results in further losses to the owners themselves. It's like Monty Python's fierce knight: 'I'll fight you with one arm cut off. I'll fight you with NO arms. ..."

 

I don't believe this is a direct quote.

[jad]

I don't believe this is a direct quote.

 

You're right of course.

[Bellhorn04]

I love MLB's 'threats' (i.e., cancelling games), each one of which results in further losses to the owners themselves. It's like Monty Python's fierce knight: 'I'll fight you with one arm cut off. I'll fight you with NO arms. ..."

 

Cancelling games hurts everyone. As others have said, the owners can afford the losses more.

[Bellhorn04]

You might feel differently if you were a Pirates fan…

 

Sure, I'd be saying "Why can't we get an owner like the Red Sox have?"

 

It's the other side of the same point.

[moonslav59]

I love MLB's 'threats' (i.e., cancelling games), each one of which results in further losses to the owners themselves. It's like Monty Python's fierce knight: 'I'll fight you with one arm cut off. I'll fight you with NO arms. ..."

 

Good analogy.

 

It's hard to believe anything Manfred says.

[moonslav59]

Why would this get added to the CBA if the Int'l guys aren't included in the union until they are on a 40 man?

 

Is the amateur draft in the CBS?

[moonslav59]

Cancelling games hurts everyone. As others have said, the owners can afford the losses more.

 

But, they act like giving the players 162 games (and 162 games of pay) is a concession.

[mvp 78]

Is the amateur draft in the CBS?

 

I believe the changes to the previous drafts (reduction in rounds) were negotiated with the union.

[moonslav59]

I believe the changes to the previous drafts (reduction in rounds) were negotiated with the union.

 

OK, and they're not on the 40 man roster, either.

[Bellhorn04]

But, they act like giving the players 162 games (and 162 games of pay) is a concession.

 

I think that's a matter of perception.

[mvp 78]

OK, and they're not on the 40 man roster, either.

 

I know. It's kinda weird that they are bargaining for how these players are obtained, but then can't bargain for an increase to MiLB salaries.

[mvp 78]

@JeffPassan

In a voice message sent to a group chat that has been widely shared in Dominican baseball circles, David Ortiz, perhaps the most influential baseball voice in the country, came out strongly against the international draft, according to a copy of the message obtained by ESPN.

Ortiz: “The system in the Dominican is not ready to have a draft next year. The Dominican is not the U.S. You can’t snap a finger and everything lines up to operate the right way. We’ve got a new president who’s trying to improve things. We need to do this slowly.”

Ortiz: “Baseball is such a big thing in the Dominican. Baseball keeps kids off the streets. We don’t want that to walk away from us. We want it to get better. That’s my focus. Nothing else. We have the youth. People wanting to be me, Pedro, Pujols. We can’t let that go away.”

Ortiz: “At the end of the day, I don’t want those kids to be affected by it. I already played baseball. I had a career. I care about the kids being treated right. I understand MLB wants to have control over everything they do, but you’re not going to change the system overnight.”

Ortiz: “Baseball is one of the secret weapons of the Dominican economy. If you talk about a draft here in the states, you have choices. You can do football, basketball. You don’t have choices. Dominican has baseball to make your way out. That’s it. You have to be careful.”

[sk7326]

The frustrating thing about the spin of some of the reporting is that we get stories about "MLB is proposing ______" or "The union is discussing ____________" ... and reporting it in a way that the issue is actually settled or it is the one thing separating us from a deal.

 

A good though exercise is - suppose there was a report "The Red Sox have added Kike Hernandez into negotiations with the Angels". This is all fun to know - but it's leaving out a LOT of details about the negotiation. After all, if the Angels offer Mike Trout that means one thing, and if the Angels offer a trout named Mike, it means something else entirely. If it turned out the Angels offered the latter, reporting that "The Red Sox offered Kike to the Angels but then went back on it" is pretty dishonest spin.

[moonslav59]

I think that's a matter of perception.

 

Yes, their attempt at changing the fans' perception.

[moonslav59]

The frustrating thing about the spin of some of the reporting is that we get stories about "MLB is proposing ______" or "The union is discussing ____________" ... and reporting it in a way that the issue is actually settled or it is the one thing separating us from a deal.

 

A good though exercise is - suppose there was a report "The Red Sox have added Kike Hernandez into negotiations with the Angels". This is all fun to know - but it's leaving out a LOT of details about the negotiation. After all, if the Angels offer Mike Trout that means one thing, and if the Angels offer a trout named Mike, it means something else entirely. If it turned out the Angels offered the latter, reporting that "The Red Sox offered Kike to the Angels but then went back on it" is pretty dishonest spin.

 

Who is reporting this news on Kike?

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, their attempt at changing the fans' perception.

 

I think the average fan's perception is much like Old Red's - no sympathy for either side.

[moonslav59]

I think the average fan's perception is much like Old Red's - no sympathy for either side.

 

Now, you've really done it!

[Old Red]

I think the average fan's perception is much like Old Red's - no sympathy for either side.

 

I still blame both sides, but I have softened my stance a bit, and put more blame on the owners for going so long without an offer, or even bargaining at all.

[moonslav59]

I still blame both sides, but I have softened my stance a bit, and put more blame on the owners for going so long without an offer, or even bargaining at all.

 

Then, after they "started" actual negotiations, they "improved" their offer from like $220M to $221.

 

Recently, they jumped to $230M.

 

Yes, the players asked for the world, but they quickly made significant modifications to each new counteroffer.

[mvp 78]

I still blame both sides, but I have softened my stance a bit, and put more blame on the owners for going so long without an offer, or even bargaining at all.

 

Seems fair enough.

[mvp 78]

Apparently, they have spoken about an international draft during negotiations for the previous two CBA's as well.

[mvp 78]

@NBCSEdgeBB

Report: MLB owners have 'turned very pessimistic'

[jad]

"Pessimistic" about what? Their ability to bully players into accepting yet another bad deal?

[notin]

@NBCSEdgeBB

Report: MLB owners have 'turned very pessimistic'

 

Don’t they all have yachts and mistresses and exotic animal zoos to change their moods?

 

I mean, who can stay upset while watching a slow loris?

[sk7326]

"Pessimistic" about what? Their ability to bully players into accepting yet another bad deal?

 

What has been interesting in the negotiations is that we see reports of MLB coming down off of its maximum asks ... but we don't see MLB making deals that are responsive in any way to player interests. (the two big ones, more money for younger players and incentivizing/forcing competitive behavior by teams.

[Bellhorn04]

It seems like there are too many issues, frankly. Human beings tend to like to make things more and more complicated. The luxury tax nuances being one example.