Will there be a 2022 season?

[dgalehouse]

Obviously , there is no question that MLB players are superior to the next level. The point is that , if you get past the name recognition and fame , it is still the same game. If Franchy was competing only against others of the same caliber , and that was all there was , Franchy would not be such a stiff.

[moonslav59]

So you skipped 2020?

 

I closed my eyes.

 

Seriously, though, if we had 9 Franchy's in the line-up, we'd be the worst team in the history of MLB and probably any sport.

 

I honestly think I couldn't watch, and I watched some pretty sad Sox teams from start to finish.

[moonslav59]

Obviously , there is no question that MLB players are superior to the next level. The point is that , if you get past the name recognition and fame , it is still the same game. If Franchy was competing only against others of the same caliber , and that was all there was , Franchy would not be such a stiff.

 

I like a lot of what you say, but I really think you are wrong, here.

 

True, Franchy would be facing worse pitchers, so he'd hit better than we saw, but I've seen AAA and AA games. It's like little league vs college ball.

[Elktonnick]

Obviously , there is no question that MLB players are superior to the next level. The point is that , if you get past the name recognition and fame , it is still the same game. If Franchy was competing only against others of the same caliber , and that was all there was , Franchy would not be such a stiff.

You understood my point exactly. 95 percent of baseball fans can not tell the difference between a bona fide major leaguer and a 3A player unless they are playing against each other. The Franchys of this world all impressed some one or they they would not have been signed in the first place.

[vegasbob]

I still think the negotiations will reach a conclusion next Thursday or Friday (March 16/17) Long enough for both sides to be perceived negatively but not too long to cost players too much money. Sticking with 162 games or at least guaranteeing payment of any in place full contracts for a slighty shortned season.

 

Almost time to play ball so we can see what the point in bringing JBJr back really was.

[moonslav59]

You understood my point exactly. 95 percent of baseball fans can not tell the difference between a bona fide major leaguer and a 3A player unless they are playing against each other. The Franchys of this world all impressed some one or they they would not have been signed in the first place.

 

If this were true, the owners would let the best 1200 players walk.

[moonslav59]

I still think the negotiations will reach a conclusion next Thursday or Friday (March 16/17) Long enough for both sides to be perceived negatively but not too long to cost players too much money. Sticking with 162 games or at least guaranteeing payment of any in place full contracts for a slighty shortned season.

 

Almost time to play ball so we can see what the point in bringing JBJr back really was.

 

There does seem to be some serious movement from MLB, at least on the lux tax.

 

Maybe the players give 14 teams for the playoffs, banning the shift, a universal DH and a couple other tidbits, and the owners close the loop hole on player service time manipulation, somehow, without giving into much more.

 

I still think the players deserve something more on arbs and earlier free agency, but maybe an even healthier raise to the min salary might quell the players appetites on helping the lower salary players.

 

Maybe this ends up being the final package:

 

Min Salary:

$740K with $20M additions each year, so $820K in 2026.

 

Lux Tax:

$228 in 2022 (owner's recent offer)

30% Tax ($20-40M over 60% and $40+M over 90%)

$240 in 2026 ($2M over owner's recent offer)

40% Tax ($20-40M over 70% and $40+M over 100%)

 

The pre-arb Pool:

$50M (owners most recent offer, I believe was $30M)

 

Fix the service time manipulation, somehow.

 

Int'l draft (not by losing record)

 

14 team playoffs and Universal DH in 2022

 

Pitch clock and Robo Umps in 2023

 

Maybe think about making this longer than a 5 year deal.

 

Banning the shift should be banned.

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by moonslav59

[Elktonnick]

If this were true, the owners would let the best 1200 players walk.

It is and that is why the owners are being so tough.in the negotiations They are in the stronger position because they know their skills won't erode over time. Time is on ownership side.

 

If you notice the.players are really worried by the trend of the clubs being more inclined to favor younger players than in years past.

[moonslav59]

It is and that is why the owners are being so tough.in the negotiations They are in the stronger position because they know their skills won't erode over time. Time is on ownership side.

 

If you notice the.players are really worried by the trend of the clubs being more inclined to favor younger players than in years past.

 

I notice no such thing, in fact the players are seeking to make younger players make more and more money than the older ones -percentagewise.

[Elktonnick]

I notice no such thing, in fact the players are seeking to make younger players make more and more money than the older ones -percentagewise.

Of course. The future is that the average of a ball club will be younger and younger.

[S5Dewey]

If this were true, the owners would let the best 1200 players walk.

 

IMO it's all a matter of expectations. When I go to a MLB park I expect to see some of the best 1200 players playing the game.(I'm not at all certain that there aren't as many as a couple of hundred people selling cars or working on construction or even playing in Independent leagues who aren't better baseball players than No.1199 but that's beside the point).

 

I don't need to see the best players to enjoy it when I go to a baseball game. Over the run of a summer I'll see high school games, American Legion games,D-3 baseball, D-1 baseball, and Minor League games and I enjoy them all. I enjoy these games because the talent level is somewhere near equal which makes for competitive games. (I just realized that I'm somewhat of a baseball junkie, aren't I?:cool )

 

For me it's more about the game than it is about the talent level, although I enjoy watching those Top 1200 possibly mostly for the "Wow factor", as in "Wow! Did you see that catch?!!

[moonslav59]

IMO it's all a matter of expectations. When I go to a MLB park I expect to see some of the best 1200 players playing the game.(I'm not at all certain that there aren't as many as a couple of hundred people selling cars or working on construction or even playing in Independent leagues who aren't better baseball players than No.1199 but that's beside the point).

 

I don't need to see the best players to enjoy it when I go to a baseball game. Over the run of a summer I'll see high school games, American Legion games,D-3 baseball, D-1 baseball, and Minor League games and I enjoy them all. I enjoy these games because the talent level is somewhere near equal which makes for competitive games. (I just realized that I'm somewhat of a baseball junkie, aren't I?:cool )

 

For me it's more about the game than it is about the talent level, although I enjoy watching those Top 1200 possibly mostly for the "Wow factor", as in "Wow! Did you see that catch?!!

 

I'd never consider paying big money for the right to watch evert Portland Sea Dogs game on TV, or even go see many games.

 

Do I enjoy watching a game here and there, while I'm visiting Maine, sure, but it's a different kind of enjoyment.

[moonslav59]

Of course. The future is that the average of a ball club will be younger and younger.

 

So? Is this a sign we are heading towards playing the best 1200 to 2400 players in the world?

 

Many of the youngsters are way more talented than most 28+ year olds.

 

I do wonder about why we maybe should have called Fred Lynn up a year or two earlier.

[jad]

Did someone actually suggest that professional AAA or AA players are better athletes than a bunch of 70-year-old and 10-year-old internet posters????? Wow. NO WAY!! And I guess the conclusion is that THEREFORE, let all the revenue from MLB go to owners??? (We really need the season to start, as this lock-out is clearly causing neurological damage).

[Old Red]

I'd never consider paying big money for the right to watch evert Portland Sea Dogs game on TV, or even go see many games.

 

Do I enjoy watching a game here and there, while I'm visiting Maine, sure, but it's a different kind of enjoyment.

 

I enjoy watching minor league, or college baseball. It’s a lot cheaper too. Yes it’s a different game, but it’s still baseball.

[moonslav59]

I enjoy watching minor league, or college baseball. It’s a lot cheaper too. Yes it’s a different game, but it’s still baseball.

 

I enjoy it, too. I try to see a Sea Dogs game every summer.

 

It's not the same, and I'd never pay to watch them on TV.

[harmony]

I live in a city with a NCAA Division I team, and in a state with a D1 powerhouse, but I've turned my attention to small college baseball.

 

The Northwest Conference has nine NCAA Division III members: five in Oregon and four in Washington state.

 

I hope to see a home game of each member, Pacific Northwest spring weather permitting. I've now seen games at four stadiums but this weekend's weather threatens the only planned overnight trip, one to eastern Washington.

 

The competition is fairly even and I have mixed feelings about the constant and sometimes over-the-top chatter/cheering from the dugouts.

 

The local High A minor league team has its home opener on April 8.

[moonslav59]

I live in a city with a NCAA Division I team, and in a state with a D1 powerhouse, but I've turned my attention to small college baseball.

 

The Northwest Conference has nine NCAA Division III members: five in Oregon and four in Washington state.

 

I hope to see a home game of each member, Pacific Northwest spring weather permitting. I've now seen games at four stadiums but this weekend's weather threatens the only planned overnight trip, one to eastern Washington.

 

The competition is fairly even and I have mixed feelings about the constant and sometimes over-the-top chatter/cheering from the dugouts.

 

The local High A minor league team has its home opener on April 8.

 

Would you buy a season TV package for over $100 to watch all their games on TV?

 

If yes, how many like you are there out in this world, and why aren't they offering that package everywhere?

[harmony]

Would you buy a season TV package for over $100 to watch all their games on TV?

 

If yes, how many like you are there out in this world, and why aren't they offering that package everywhere?

I prefer the free admission to all Northwest Conference college baseball games.

 

BTW last year marked the first year that I paid for the cable package that includes the Seattle Mariners and the Portland Trail Blazers (and now the Seattle Kraken). The package was my pandemic treat.

[notin]

Did someone actually suggest that professional AAA or AA players are better athletes than a bunch of 70-year-old and 10-year-old internet posters????? Wow. NO WAY!! And I guess the conclusion is that THEREFORE, let all the revenue from MLB go to owners??? (We really need the season to start, as this lock-out is clearly causing neurological damage).

 

No. The point was the worst players you can think are still closer to being Mike Trout than any of us ever were to them…

[jad]

No. The point was the worst players you can think are still closer to being Mike Trout than any of us ever were to them…

 

I'm aware of that. The fact that anyone needs to say this is what is mind-boggling.

[Bellhorn04]

If this were true, the owners would let the best 1200 players walk.

 

Obviously no one wants to see the best 1200 players replaced by the next 1200 players.

 

By the same token, I'd rather not see John Henry replaced by Angelos or Moreno.

 

The whole argument is just plain dumb!

[moonslav59]

Obviously no one wants to see the best 1200 players replaced by the next 1200 players.

 

By the same token, I'd rather not see John Henry replaced by Angelos or Moreno.

 

The whole argument is just plain dumb!

 

Point well-taken.

[jad]

Obviously no one wants to see the best 1200 players replaced by the next 1200 players.

 

By the same token, I'd rather not see John Henry replaced by Angelos or Moreno.

 

The whole argument is just plain dumb!

 

It's the point made by J. Passan: MLB players have already proven they are the best; not so with owners: there are plenty of people and conglomerates out there perfectly capable of running professional sports franchises; and by implication, when franchises change hands, in some cases they improve dramatically (e.g., the present LAD group as opposed to Frank McCourt). There are also cases where owners make no effort to improve their product (Marlins, Baltimore, Pittsburg), but rely on the earnings of others to sustain them. Yet if I'm a .150 hitting 3rd baseman, I can't take .100 points and 20 HR from Devers to prop up my career; nor if my fastball tops out at 80mph can I borrow 10mph from Ohtani.

 

(I agree that the argument may well be dumb. But what else, alas, are we going to talk about?)

[notin]

I'm aware of that. The fact that anyone needs to say this is what is mind-boggling.

 

Hey I was surprised awhile back when I pointed out the worst players in MLB are better at baseball (not MLB - baseball) than any of us are at anything, and numerous people disagreed…

[notin]

Obviously no one wants to see the best 1200 players replaced by the next 1200 players.

 

By the same token, I'd rather not see John Henry replaced by Angelos or Moreno.

 

The whole argument is just plain dumb!

 

 

You might feel differently if you were a Pirates fan…

[jad]

Hey I was surprised awhile back when I pointed out the worst players in MLB are better at baseball (not MLB - baseball) than any of us are at anything, and numerous people disagreed…

 

Ha! I think that tells us all we need to know about the delusions of your basic sports fan!

[moonslav59]

Is this now the 4th deadline of threatened loss of MLB games, or did I miss 1 or 2?

[moonslav59]

So, the owners have now gone up to $230M on the lux tax but want to add a 4th tier. It sounds like the gap is closing on this issue.

 

MLBTR...

 

The owners would like to add a Third Surcharge Threshold. Using the owners’ latest offer, the 2022 thresholds would be set at $230MM, $250MM, $270MM, and $290MM, with increasing tax rates for each tier. That new Third Surcharge Threshold would always sit $60MM above the Base Tax Threshold.

[moonslav59]

A bit more of a gap, here...

 

It’s also worth noting that MLB’s last known offer was for a $40MM pre-arbitration bonus pool that did not increase throughout the five-year CBA. The MLBPA’s last known proposal came in at $80MM in 2022 with growth to $100MM in ’26. Nicholson-Smith has noted that “players have indicated a willingness” to move to a $70MM starting point growing to $90MM. That would still mark a sizable gap.