9/22 Mets @ SOX 7:10PM

[moonslav59]

I think Bogaerts is the ideal Sox shortstop because of his solid hitting and low error rate and despite his lack of range.

 

Sox management has been more than happy to get rid of good fielding shortstops, who almost never last more than a season or so. See, for example, Orlando Cabrera, Jose Iglesias, and Alex Gonzalez. Or even Stephen Drew.

 

I'd love to have Bogey as our SS for a while longer. I do think his low error rate lessens the range fault, but I wouldn't mind seeing him as our 2Bman or 3Bman, either.

[moonslav59]

He's a 2.6 fWAR guy who struggles in the field. He also makes a lot of money and could be leaving after this year. Sox fans just don't see him as a long term fit. He's a hired gun.

 

No doubt. He'd have to hit like 2018 to be worth $20M a year as a DH.

[Bellhorn04]

He's a 2.6 fWAR guy who struggles in the field. He also makes a lot of money and could be leaving after this year. Sox fans just don't see him as a long term fit. He's a hired gun.

 

They're all hired guns, man.

[mvp 78]

They're all hired guns, man.

 

It's still real to me dammit.

[Old Red]

I'd love to have Bogey as our SS for a while longer. I do think his low error rate lessens the range fault, but I wouldn't mind seeing him as our 2Bman or 3Bman, either.

 

If at 3B where is Raffy?

[mvp 78]

No doubt. He'd have to hit like 2018 to be worth $20M a year as a DH.

 

Maybe other fans don't do that calculus, but that's how I feel about him. He was worth it for 2018, but I won't be sad to see him go.

 

[Bellhorn04]

No doubt. He'd have to hit like 2018 to be worth $20M a year as a DH.

 

Actually, if he only DH'd this year his WAR would be over 3, which is worth more than $20 mill in free agent dollars.

[mvp 78]

if at 3b where is raffy?

 

lf/dh

[mvp 78]

Actually, if he only DH'd this year his WAR would be over 3, which is worth more than $20 mill in free agent dollars.

 

No.

[Bellhorn04]

No.

 

So how much is 1 WAR worth in your calculations, mvp?

[Maxbialystock]

Because he swings at those low outside breaking balls all the time!

 

Actually, he has done that a lot. Yesterday he hit a slider away solidly, but it was not low and away. This year his overall WAR is 2.7--vs. 6.7 in 2018 and 3.5 in 2019. I don't count last year, but the trend is still downward. On the other hand, I think he was a huge reason why the 2018 team was so successful--he made everyone else in that lineup better. Despite his lousy DWAR, I think he is an adequate outfielder because he likes going out there and because he has a pretty good arm, but just not much range.

[mvp 78]

Actually, he has done that a lot. Yesterday he hit a slider away solidly, but it was not low and away. This year his overall WAR is 2.7--vs. 6.7 in 2018 and 3.5 in 2019. I don't count last year, but the trend is still downward. On the other hand, I think he was a huge reason why the 2018 team was so successful--he made everyone else in that lineup better. Despite his lousy DWAR, I think he is an adequate outfielder because he likes going out there and because he has a pretty good arm, but just not much range.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jd-martinez/6184/heat-maps?position=DH/OF&ss=&se=&hand=&count=&pitch=&season=&view=bat&data=&grid=&blur=&type=2

 

He's twice as likely to swing at balls low and in though. He's much better at taking that pitch than Xander is.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

In his seven full seasons to date, Mookie's WAR's have been 6 in 2015, 9.6 in 2016, 6.4 in 2017, 10.9 in 2018, 6.8 in 2019, an astounding 3.4 (in just 55 games) in 2020, and 4.6 this year. Good as those are, those numbers are nowhere near as good as Mike Trout's.

 

And yet, this year at age 28, Mookie already passed Hall of Famer Jim Rice's career WAR. Is there any doubt that Betts -- just entering his prime -- has earned a "top of the market salary"?

[a700hitter]

Maybe other fans don't do that calculus, but that's how I feel about him. He was worth it for 2018, but I won't be sad to see him go.

 

If you line up his production over the last 6 or 7 years, he is in an elite group, and for all the guff he is getting this season, his production has been pretty good. If he leaves, I will be sorry to see him go if they don’t replace his big bat. Also, he reportedly has helped the other hitters on the team, which has value.

[a700hitter]

Bogey imo is a good SS. Good hands and an accurate arm mean something too. Range isn’t the only determinative factor for fielding. Bogey makes all the routine plays and a very high percentage of the difficult plays. Not everyone who has more range is as consistent in that regard.

[a700hitter]

Because he swings at those low outside breaking balls all the time!

Cora needs to get a new garbage can.

[Maxbialystock]

It's still real to me dammit.

 

Both right. If you watch the game and are on talksox, you can easily get attached to the players, who however come and go because MLB is a business, which, to be honest, is better for the players than the feudalism practiced before the reserve clause went away.

[mvp 78]

If you line up his production over the last 6 or 7 years, he is in an elite group, and for all the guff he is getting this season, his production has been pretty good. If he leaves, I will be sorry to see him go if they don’t replace his big bat. Also, he reportedly has helped the other hitters on the team, which has value.

 

40th overall in fWAR.

7th in WRC+ (right behind Nelson Cruz, which seems right).

 

How people feel about Nelson Cruz is how people should feel about JD Martinez.

 

Since 2016:

 

Cruz $73.4M

JD $94M

[mvp 78]

Both right. If you watch the game and are on talksox, you can easily get attached to the players, who however come and go because MLB is a business, which, to be honest, is better for the players than the feudalism practiced before the reserve clause went away.

 

I don't mind the players earning $$$. I mind the Sox owners not paying the players I like that $$$.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't mind the players earning $$$. I mind the Sox owners not paying the players I like that $$$.

 

We're basically talking about one player?

[a700hitter]

40th overall in fWAR.

7th in WRC+ (right behind Nelson Cruz, which seems right).

 

How people feel about Nelson Cruz is how people should feel about JD Martinez.

 

Since 2016:

 

Cruz $73.4M

JD $94M

Cruz is also an elite bat. The Red Sox usually have to overpay. As a fan, I leave the finances to the filthy rich ownership who soak every nickel they can out of the fans. I was just commenting on being disappointed about losing an elite bat. Also, JD is now a full time DH, so he will no longer command $20 million/year. At $15-17 million Ortiz money, he would be a bargain.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

My take on Betts leaving is that if Betts had stayed, the SOX would not have Dugo and probably not have Renfroe. My question is have the combined outputs of both Dugo and Renfroe better the output the SOX would have gotten from Betts alone?

Note: Even had Bloom picked up Renfroe with Betts still on the team, Renfroe's playing time would have been obviously limited.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Cruz is also an elite bat. The Red Sox usually have to overpay. As a fan, I leave the finances to the filthy rich ownership who soak every nickel they can out of the fans. I was just commenting on being disappointed about losing an elite bat. Also, JD is now a full time DH, so he will no longer command $20 million/year. At $15-17 million Ortiz money, he would be a bargain.

 

Speaking of 'bargains', based on what Renfroe gave the SOX this season for 3 million should come under the category of 'highway robbery.'

[mvp 78]

We're basically talking about one player?

 

Depends on if they pay Xander.

 

Also should have kept Pedro.

[mvp 78]

And Lester.