9/22 Mets @ SOX 7:10PM

[vegasbob]

If you still have concerns about the Sox pitching, rest easy. Cy Young himself has not won a game since Sept 22, 1911. All will be well

[moonslav59]

Finally, an inning where we don’t score.

[Old Red]

We have to replace ERod and Ottavino, too.

 

Yes, we can make it work with JD and Schwarber, but it would be very complicated and defense-weakening. I’m thinking we’d trade JD, if Schwarber is re-signed. We may also sell high on Renfroe, and move Verdugo back to RF. Trading Verdugo could be another option.

 

 

Here’s a possible rotation with everyone back:

 

10 game plan

JD 9 at DH- 1 off

Dalbec 9 at 1B - 1 off

Verdugo 3 in LF - 4 in CF-1 RF- 1 off

Kike 6 in CF- 3 at 2B- 1 off

Arroyo 7 at 2B- 3 off

Renfroe 9 in RF- 1 off

Schwarber 7 in LF- 1 DH- 1 1B- 1 off

 

Verdugo plays 8/ Arroyo 7, everyone else 9/10

 

Way to complicated. I don’t see them trading JD, or resigning Schwaber. I believe Renfroe is still arbitration eligible, and it is not like they have all these spare outfielders to get rid of Renfroe, or Verdugo, so trade them for what? You still don’t know what Bogey’s plans are after next year. Outside of Casas there isn’t much waiting in the wings. Either way there is all kinds of questions to be answered, but I still see JD back for his last year, and Schwaber gone. I’ve seen enough of both of them in the field.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Well our season is on the line against the Yankees at home. Make or break.

 

This is what makes baseball, imho, the greatest of the 4 major pro sports. I'm just happy the SOX have home field and I'm also happy the Yankems will still have to play their final 6 against the Rays and the Jays.

At least we game threaders will have tomorrow off to get ready for 3 nerve wracking games over the weekend.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

But were in the postseason as recently as 2016. Figure that one out, Machado

 

Well, I'm going with Chris Davis as part of the decline.

[Old Red]

This is what makes baseball, imho, the greatest of the 4 major pro sports. I'm just happy the SOX have home field and I'm also happy the Yankems will still have to play their final 6 against the Rays and the Jays.

At least we game threaders will have tomorrow off to get ready for 3 nerve wracking games over the weekend.

 

Evol is the man I would want to start the series.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

If you still have concerns about the Sox pitching, rest easy. Cy Young himself has not won a game since Sept 22, 1911. All will be well

 

Exactly 110 years between starts. He might be a little rusty and crusty.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Evol is the man I would want to start the series.

 

I believe that would be the one thing everyone on this thread would agree on.

[moonslav59]

Way to complicated. I don’t see them trading JD, or resigning Schwaber. I believe Renfroe is still arbitration eligible, and it is not like they have all these spare outfielders to get rid of Renfroe, or Verdugo, so trade them for what? You still don’t know what Bogey’s plans are after next year. Outside of Casas there isn’t much waiting in the wings. Either way there is all kinds of questions to be answered, but I still see JD back for his last year, and Schwaber gone. I’ve seen enough of both of them in the field.

 

I seriously doubt we trade JD, but I would prefer Schwarber.

 

I really don’t see any major changes to the offense, except not re-signing Schwarber. That’s not today something surprising won’t occur.

 

An interesting question might be who is the most likely regular player to be replaced.

 

Arroyo at 2B? (Kike to 2B and find an OFer?)

 

Vazquez at C? (Who do we get?)

 

Perhaps the biggest debate might be who would be listed next?

 

I’d say JD, but some might say Bogey with his opt out looming.

[Old Red]

I seriously doubt we trade JD, but I would prefer Schwarber.

 

I really don’t see any major changes to the offense, except not re-signing Schwarber. That’s not today something surprising won’t occur.

 

An interesting question might be who is the most likely regular player to be replaced.

 

Arroyo at 2B? (Kike to 2B and find an OFer?)

 

Vazquez at C? (Who do we get?)

 

Perhaps the biggest debate might be who would be listed next?

 

I’d say JD, but some might say Bogey with his opt out looming.

 

Would you trade Bogey if you knew he was going to opt out?

[moonslav59]

Would you trade Bogey if you knew he was going to opt out?

 

Yes. I may do it even thinking it’s 50-50. Of course, I’m not handing him away.

 

If we were TB, Bloom would trade him. We are not, so who knows.

[d-money]

This is what makes baseball, imho, the greatest of the 4 major pro sports. I'm just happy the SOX have home field and I'm also happy the Yankems will still have to play their final 6 against the Rays and the Jays.

At least we game threaders will have tomorrow off to get ready for 3 nerve wracking games over the weekend.

 

They can distance themselves by winning 2 out of 3 that simple. At home! Get it done!!!! They would be up 4 games with 6 games remaining on the Yankees with the Yankees then facing the blue jays.

[Old Red]

Yes. I may do it even thinking it’s 50-50. Of course, I’m not handing him away.

 

If we were TB, Bloom would trade him. We are not, so who knows.

 

Agree. Lots of contract decisions have to be made the next two years, and Devers has to be paid sooner than later.

[mvp 78]

Agree. Lots of contract decisions have to be made the next two years, and Devers has to be paid sooner than later.

 

They should extend Bogey and Devers. They are the heart of this team. I think letting them go would just deflate the fan base even further. You have to play to the crowd every once in a while.

[moonslav59]

They should extend Bogey and Devers. They are the heart of this team. I think letting them go would just deflate the fan base even further. You have to play to the crowd every once in a while.

 

Keeping fans happy is important, but winning does that. Nobody seems to care about Betts, this year, but when we sucked, last year, they did.

 

It really depends on what we could get for Bogey and his 1 year of control.

 

It also might depend on how he might handle a position change at some point during his extension.

[mvp 78]

Keeping fans happy is important, but winning does that. Nobody seems to care about Betts, this year, but when we sucked, last year, they did.

 

It really depends on what we could get for Bogey and his 1 year of control.

 

It also might depend on how he might handle a position change at some point during his extension.

 

IDK, there's been a lot of empty seats recently. They don't have a packed house every night like they used to.

[Old Red]

Keeping fans happy is important, but winning does that. Nobody seems to care about Betts, this year, but when we sucked, last year, they did.

 

It really depends on what we could get for Bogey and his 1 year of control.

 

It also might depend on how he might handle a position change at some point during his extension.

Bogey is signed through 2026 at 20 million per, but can opt out after next year. He wanted to stay in Boston, or he wouldn’t have signed that team friendly contract. Why teams put in that opt out clause is beyond me, and you wouldn’t have to go through this like they have with JD. If Bogey wants more money to stay I’m not sure the Sox will be willing to do that.

 

Devers is another case, and the longer you wait the more expensive it will get. I don’t like 300 million long term contracts. I wouldn’t have done it with Betts, or anybody else they don’t work out, and I don’t care who they are. Trout, Stanton, Cole, or Harper, or anybody.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Old Red
Wrong name

[moonslav59]

I'd lock Devers up long term.

 

I'll worry about the Dalbec-Casas logjam when it happens. We will be needing a DH after 2022, so there is room for all 3, soon enough.

 

Bogey is a tough call. He's such a great presence on the team, and is always a clear plus in value. I'm very big on SS defense, so I think that is why I am more open to trading him or moving his position than most posters, but I'd be happy to restructure his deal to avoid the opt out. The contract cost would be the issue.

 

If it came down to Devers or Bogey- I go with Devers.

[mvp 78]

Bogey is signed through 2026 at 20 million per, but can opt out after next year. He wanted to stay in Boston, or he wouldn’t have signed that team friendly contract. Why teams put in that opt out clause is beyond me, and you wouldn’t have to go through this like they have with JD. If Bogey wants more money to stay I’m not sure the Sox will be willing to do that.

 

Devers is another case, and the longer you wait the more expensive it will get. I don’t like 300 million long term contracts. I wouldn’t have done it with Betts, or anybody else they don’t work out, and I don’t care who they are. Trout, Stanton, Cole, or Harper, or anybody.

 

Trout and Betts are on a different level from Stanton/Cole/Harper IMO. I think there are a very few guys who would be worth 300M.

 

Xander? No. Devers? No.

 

Vlad Jr? In a few years it could be Yes.

 

Soto? Leaning towards yes.

 

Jose Ramirez? No.

 

Tatis? Too soon to call.

 

Correa? No.

 

Ohtani? Probably.

 

I'd have a tough time giving any pitcher 300M.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Trout and Betts are on a different level from Stanton/Cole/Harper IMO. I think there are a very few guys who would be worth 300M.

 

Xander? No. Devers? No.

 

Vlad Jr? In a few years it could be Yes.

 

Soto? Leaning towards yes.

 

Jose Ramirez? No.

 

Tatis? Too soon to call.

 

Correa? No.

 

Ohtani? Probably.

 

I'd have a tough time giving any pitcher 300M.

 

The narrative changes, though, if you ignore actual numbers and just use "top of the market salary". Everyone -- including Mookie's mom -- knew Betts was a better all-around player than Harper or Machado, so why would anyone begrudge him for asking and expecting a better contract?

 

Does Devers deserve to make as much as Arenado or Rendon going forward? Does Bogaerts deserve to be paid as much as Lindor; if not, X is certainly worth as much as Correa, Seager or Story sign for... isn't he?

[Old Red]

I'd lock Devers up long term.

 

I'll worry about the Dalbec-Casas logjam when it happens. We will be needing a DH after 2022, so there is room for all 3, soon enough.

 

Bogey is a tough call. He's such a great presence on the team, and is always a clear plus in value. I'm very big on SS defense, so I think that is why I am more open to trading him or moving his position than most posters, but I'd be happy to restructure his deal to avoid the opt out. The contract cost would be the issue.

 

If it came down to Devers or Bogey- I go with Devers.

 

I’m big on ss defense too, but the Sox haven’t been real flashy at that position through the years. Bressoud, Rico, Burrelson, Hoffman, Nomar, and Johnny V come to mind. Iggy may have been the flashiest if only for a short time. I’m not against trading Bogey if he wants out, but then he has to be replaced, and like you said he has great presence on the team that would be hard to replace too.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m big on ss defense too, but the Sox haven’t been real flashy at that position through the years. Bressoud, Rico, Burrelson, Hoffman, Nomar, and Johnny V come to mind.

 

And SS's on title teams:

 

2004 Cabrera

2007 Lugo

2013 S Drew

2018 Bogaerts

[mvp 78]

The narrative changes, though, if you ignore actual numbers and just use "top of the market salary". Everyone -- including Mookie's mom -- knew Betts was a better all-around player than Harper or Machado, so why would anyone begrudge him for asking and expecting a better contract?

 

Does Devers deserve to make as much as Arenado or Rendon going forward? Does Bogaerts deserve to be paid as much as Lindor; if not, X is certainly worth as much as Correa, Seager or Story sign for... isn't he?

 

Lindor is overpaid.

 

Would Bogaerts take 7/196? That's a 8M raise per year plus an additional 2 years added on.

 

Would Devers take Xander's 6/120 with an opt outs?

[mvp 78]

And SS's on title teams:

 

2004 Cabrera

2007 Lugo

2013 S Drew

2018 Bogaerts

 

OCAB was a good SS though, just not with the Sox.

[mvp 78]

Lugo and Drew were probably the 2 weakest links on those teams.

[Old Red]

The narrative changes, though, if you ignore actual numbers and just use "top of the market salary". Everyone -- including Mookie's mom -- knew Betts was a better all-around player than Harper or Machado, so why would anyone begrudge him for asking and expecting a better contract?

 

Does Devers deserve to make as much as Arenado or Rendon going forward? Does Bogaerts deserve to be paid as much as Lindor; if not, X is certainly worth as much as Correa, Seager or Story sign for... isn't he?

 

Players are only worth as much as teams are willing to pay, so I don’t begrudge anyone for asking for more money. Mookie just didn’t leave, because he wanted more money.

[moonslav59]

OCAB was a good SS though, just not with the Sox.

 

What is missed is that OCab's D was light years better than Nomar's.

 

The way Nomar dropped off a cliff, his offense could be viewed as better in 2007, too.

[moonslav59]

I’m big on ss defense too, but the Sox haven’t been real flashy at that position through the years. Bressoud, Rico, Burrelson, Hoffman, Nomar, and Johnny V come to mind. Iggy may have been the flashiest if only for a short time. I’m not against trading Bogey if he wants out, but then he has to be replaced, and like you said he has great presence on the team that would be hard to replace too.

 

Oh, I'm not saying the Sox share my SS defense bias.

 

I do think they traded for OCab to seriously upgrade SS D.

 

They also had Reese, Cora, Alex Gonzalez and a few other good defensive SSs, some times.

 

Renteria was supposed to be a plus defender, but was injured the year we had him.

[moonslav59]

Trout and Betts are on a different level from Stanton/Cole/Harper IMO. I think there are a very few guys who would be worth 300M.

 

Xander? No. Devers? No.

 

Vlad Jr? In a few years it could be Yes.

 

Soto? Leaning towards yes.

 

Jose Ramirez? No.

 

Tatis? Too soon to call.

 

Correa? No.

 

Ohtani? Probably.

 

I'd have a tough time giving any pitcher 300M.

 

Agree, 100%.

 

I think Soto, Tatis and Vlad are very close to knowing they are worth $300M.

[Old Red]

Lindor is overpaid.

 

Would Bogaerts take 7/196? That's a 8M raise per year plus an additional 2 years added on.

 

Would Devers take Xander's 6/120 with an opt outs?

 

You want to pay Bogey more money, and add 2 more years until

He’s 36? I don’t think the Sox will do that, and no more opt outs in contracts, and no Devers would not take 6/120, because he would make more through arbitration.