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Posted (edited)

Not sure what kind of money Xander and Devers are looking......

 

Per Cot's....selected final year contracts

 

$22.0M JD

$16.0M David Price

$12.0M JBJ

$07.0M Vaz

$07.0M Wacha

$05.0M Hill

$01.5M Sawamura

 

$70.5M Total coming off 2023 payroll (Moon, any 'penalty' for options not picked up ie JBJ as an example will be charged off to 2022 season).

 

We will need a catcher, DH, outfield depth, three starters to be replaced (Eovaldi, Wacha and Hill).

 

I think we'll extend Eovaldi, his current tax payroll is $17M, so that may go up to say $22M, or delta of $5M, leaves us with $65M.

 

I will assume that Paxton will return 100% heathy for 2023, thus only one starter needs to be replaced.....this is the critical area, someone within the organization has to step up and take a starter's role, and I don't think it's asking too much...no additional money needed

 

We'll need a DH, best case scenario is for Casas and Dalbec to step in to play 1B/DH. We can spend $10M for a OF/1B/DH, leaving us with $55M.

 

We can budget for $5M for Vaz replacement...doable.

 

Thus we have a war chest of $50M+ to keep Xander in Boston (I doubt we'll pay $10M, more likely $25M (delta of $5) and couple of more years added).

 

I think we'll keep Kike, it may cost us say $12.5M for 2 years, delta of another $5M, we still have $40M+ for Devers' extension.

 

Based on Dever's expected pay of $11M for 2022 season, even at $30M extension, that's delta of say $20M.

 

Sox still has $20M+ to pay for arbitration raises for 2023 and some bullpen additions.

 

Key will be a starting pitcher or two emerging within the system and both Casas and Dalbec becoming a 'major' league talent. We have extended Kike for additional $5M, acquired a catcher for $5M, acquired outfielder/1B/DH veteran for $10M, Eovaldi extended for additional $5M, Xander extended at $25M and Devers signed to a $30M contract. I doubt Sale opts out, just to cover all the basis.

 

Bloom's biggest signing maybe Devers. I'm sure Bloom is reading this as I type.

Edited by Nick
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Posted

A lot to digest here, Nick, but hey, what else can we do?

 

JBJ's final option year is $12M mutual option with a whopping $8M buyout, so I seriously doubt we pay that $8M for him not to play vs $12M for him to play- a $4M net.

 

I'll go piece-by-piece:

 

Not sure what kind of money Xander and Devers are looking......

 

Per Cot's....selected final year contracts

 

$22.0M JD

$16.0M David Price

$12.0M JBJ

$07.0M Vaz

$07.0M Wacha

$05.0M Hill

$01.5M Sawamura

 

$70.5M Total coming off 2023 payroll (Moon, any 'penalty' for options not picked up ie JBJ as an example will be charged off to 2022 season).

 

I have to think Bogey will get $28M x 7, minimum- more likely $30+M x 8+.

 

Devers is harder to call, since he'll have one arb left after this year. Both are not great defenders, but their bats will be expensive. I think Devers might get $30M x 9 after 2023. (Not adjusting for inflation) Maybe $32M x 10. He'll be 27 in 2 years. Bogey will be 30 in 1 year.

 

We will need a catcher, DH, outfield depth, three starters to be replaced (Eovaldi, Wacha and Hill).

 

DH might come from Dalbec, if Casas wins the 1B job by 2023. I guess Dalbec could play 3B, if we don't keep Devers or trade him before losing him.

 

I think we'll extend Eovaldi, his current tax payroll is $17M, so that may go up to say $22M, or delta of $5M, leaves us with $65M.

 

I'm not sure we keep Eovaldi. He'll be 33 in a year. Maybe on a 2-3 year deal, but he will seek longer terms.

 

I will assume that Paxton will return 100% heathy for 2023, thus only one starter needs to be replaced.....this is the critical area, someone within the organization has to step up and take a starter's role, and I don't think it's asking too much...no additional money needed

 

I'm pretty sure we add a big named starter, but this would be an alternative

1. Sale

2. Paxton

3. Pivetta

4. Houck

5. Whitlock

 

We'd need massive pen building.

 

We'll need a DH, best case scenario is for Casas and Dalbec to step in to play 1B/DH. We can spend $10M for a OF/1B/DH, leaving us with $55M.

 

Yes, or someone else steps in, like Yorke or Jordan, but both are just 19, now.

 

We can budget for $5M for Vaz replacement...doable.'

 

To get a good catcher, it will likely cost more. Many of my proposed trades on BTV involve acquiring a young and promising catcher.

 

Thus we have a war chest of $50M+ to keep Xander in Boston (I doubt we'll pay $10M, more likely $25M (delta of $5) and couple of more years added).

 

It's hard to imagine us letting Betts & Bogey go, but to me, if it comes down to Bogey vs Devers, I'm firmly on the Devers Forevers bandwagon.

 

I think we'll keep Kike, it may cost us say $12.5M for 2 years, delta of another $5M, we still have $40M+ for Devers' extension.

 

I hope we keep him, too, but he may be more costly than $13M per year.

 

Based on Dever's expected pay of $11M for 2022 season, even at $30M extension, that's delta of say $20M.

 

Gotta keep him!

 

Sox still has $20M+ to pay for arbitration raises for 2023 and some bullpen additions.

 

Sounds about what will be needed.

 

Key will be a starting pitcher or two emerging within the system and both Casas and Dalbec becoming a 'major' league talent. We have extended Kike for additional $5M, acquired a catcher for $5M, acquired outfielder/1B/DH veteran for $10M, Eovaldi extended for additional $5M, Xander extended at $25M and Devers signed to a $30M contract. I doubt Sale opts out, just to cover all the basis.

 

Bloom's biggest signing maybe Devers. I'm sure Bloom is reading this as I type.

 

Keeping both Bogey and Devers will almost certainly restrict what we can spend on pitching for the next 7-9 years. For this reason, we may not keep both. That begs the question on who we trade rather than get nothing for them but a draft pick.

 

This is the big choice.

Posted
A lot to digest here, Nick, but hey, what else can we do?

 

JBJ's final option year is $12M mutual option with a whopping $8M buyout, so I seriously doubt we pay that $8M for him not to play vs $12M for him to play- a $4M net.

 

I'll go piece-by-piece:

 

Not sure what kind of money Xander and Devers are looking......

 

Per Cot's....selected final year contracts

 

$22.0M JD

$16.0M David Price

$12.0M JBJ

$07.0M Vaz

$07.0M Wacha

$05.0M Hill

$01.5M Sawamura

 

$70.5M Total coming off 2023 payroll (Moon, any 'penalty' for options not picked up ie JBJ as an example will be charged off to 2022 season).

 

I have to think Bogey will get $28M x 7, minimum- more likely $30+M x 8+.

 

Devers is harder to call, since he'll have one arb left after this year. Both are not great defenders, but their bats will be expensive. I think Devers might get $30M x 9 after 2023. (Not adjusting for inflation) Maybe $32M x 10. He'll be 27 in 2 years. Bogey will be 30 in 1 year.

 

We will need a catcher, DH, outfield depth, three starters to be replaced (Eovaldi, Wacha and Hill).

 

DH might come from Dalbec, if Casas wins the 1B job by 2023. I guess Dalbec could play 3B, if we don't keep Devers or trade him before losing him.

 

I think we'll extend Eovaldi, his current tax payroll is $17M, so that may go up to say $22M, or delta of $5M, leaves us with $65M.

 

I'm not sure we keep Eovaldi. He'll be 33 in a year. Maybe on a 2-3 year deal, but he will seek longer terms.

 

I will assume that Paxton will return 100% heathy for 2023, thus only one starter needs to be replaced.....this is the critical area, someone within the organization has to step up and take a starter's role, and I don't think it's asking too much...no additional money needed

 

I'm pretty sure we add a big named starter, but this would be an alternative

1. Sale

2. Paxton

3. Pivetta

4. Houck

5. Whitlock

 

We'd need massive pen building.

 

We'll need a DH, best case scenario is for Casas and Dalbec to step in to play 1B/DH. We can spend $10M for a OF/1B/DH, leaving us with $55M.

 

Yes, or someone else steps in, like Yorke or Jordan, but both are just 19, now.

 

We can budget for $5M for Vaz replacement...doable.'

 

To get a good catcher, it will likely cost more. Many of my proposed trades on BTV involve acquiring a young and promising catcher.

 

Thus we have a war chest of $50M+ to keep Xander in Boston (I doubt we'll pay $10M, more likely $25M (delta of $5) and couple of more years added).

 

It's hard to imagine us letting Betts & Bogey go, but to me, if it comes down to Bogey vs Devers, I'm firmly on the Devers Forevers bandwagon.

 

I think we'll keep Kike, it may cost us say $12.5M for 2 years, delta of another $5M, we still have $40M+ for Devers' extension.

 

I hope we keep him, too, but he may be more costly than $13M per year.

 

Based on Dever's expected pay of $11M for 2022 season, even at $30M extension, that's delta of say $20M.

 

Gotta keep him!

 

Sox still has $20M+ to pay for arbitration raises for 2023 and some bullpen additions.

 

Sounds about what will be needed.

 

Key will be a starting pitcher or two emerging within the system and both Casas and Dalbec becoming a 'major' league talent. We have extended Kike for additional $5M, acquired a catcher for $5M, acquired outfielder/1B/DH veteran for $10M, Eovaldi extended for additional $5M, Xander extended at $25M and Devers signed to a $30M contract. I doubt Sale opts out, just to cover all the basis.

 

Bloom's biggest signing maybe Devers. I'm sure Bloom is reading this as I type.

 

Keeping both Bogey and Devers will almost certainly restrict what we can spend on pitching for the next 7-9 years. For this reason, we may not keep both. That begs the question on who we trade rather than get nothing for them but a draft pick.

 

This is the big choice.

 

$30M for 8 years of Xander is way too much for my taste. I rather go all in on Devers at $32M, IF given the choice.

 

Suzuki probably is better alternative to shore up our offense if we lose Xander and replace him with a defensive shortstop.

 

If Paxton shows promise in September (maybe a wishful thinking in my part), then maybe we can move away from Eovaldi and add $17M to the 'pot'.

 

I can live with outfield of Verdugo, Kike and say Suzuki. Or we can go Schwarber, Kike and Verdugo for one year before moving Schwarber to DH.

 

Whitlock is the ultimate team player but he has stated his preference for an opportunity to start not long ago.

 

Bloom still has couple of major moves before 2022 and that may reveal what direction the organization is headed.

Posted
It looks like the only way Bogey gets traded is if the Red Sox are out of it at the 2022 deadline.

 

Maybe not even then, but going to free agency risks a lot.

Posted
$30M for 8 years of Xander is way too much for my taste. I rather go all in on Devers at $32M, IF given the choice.

 

Suzuki probably is better alternative to shore up our offense if we lose Xander and replace him with a defensive shortstop.

 

If Paxton shows promise in September (maybe a wishful thinking in my part), then maybe we can move away from Eovaldi and add $17M to the 'pot'.

 

I can live with outfield of Verdugo, Kike and say Suzuki. Or we can go Schwarber, Kike and Verdugo for one year before moving Schwarber to DH.

 

Whitlock is the ultimate team player but he has stated his preference for an opportunity to start not long ago.

 

Bloom still has couple of major moves before 2022 and that may reveal what direction the organization is headed.

 

My guess is Houck wants to start, too. That's where the money and glory are.

 

Here is soxprospects.com 2023 projections (no moves made):

 

Sale, Paxton, Whitlock, Pivetta, Bello/Seabold/Groome

Houck, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, DHern, Valdez, Winckowski/Feltman/Bazardo/Davis

Wong & R Hernandez

Casas

Downs

Bogey

Devers

Verdugo

Duran

JBJ

Dalbec

Bench: Arroyo, Arauz, Cannon, Cordero, Rosario

 

If Bogey is gone, I assume Arroyo at 2B & Downs at SS.

 

This is the foundation. Certainly additions would be made.

Posted
Seems like a nice, well-balanced lad!

 

Yeah he should find work REAL soon. Doesn’t he know he’s not good enough to be controversial??

Posted

Does anyone have an update on Noah Song? It's been several months ago but a former Navy pilot thought Noah's flight school training should have ended last fall. I thought I read this on SoxProspects site.

 

It amazes me that there's absolutely NO NEWS on this guy.

 

Has he called it quits? Anyone here with military contacts?

Posted
Does anyone have an update on Noah Song? It's been several months ago but a former Navy pilot thought Noah's flight school training should have ended last fall. I thought I read this on SoxProspects site.

 

It amazes me that there's absolutely NO NEWS on this guy.

 

Has he called it quits? Anyone here with military contacts?

From FanGraphs two days ago:

 

Song had first round talent at Navy but his service commitment, and unfortunately-timed changes to rules around exemptions for military athletes, pushed him to the fourth round. He may have a path back into baseball this year and we wouldn’t be surprised if this guy has stayed in baseball shape. He could move very quickly through the Sox system in a late-inning bullpen role.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/picks-to-click-who-we-expect-to-make-the-2023-top-100/

 

From Red Sox beat reporter John Tomase last November:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-prospect-noah-song-could-resume-career-2022-heres-why-matters

Posted

Even at his best, Renfroe constantly feels like a player at war with his worst impulses. His cannon arm probably cost the Red Sox more runs than it saved, thanks to his bloodlust for assists. He recorded a league-leading 16 of them, but just as often airmailed a cutoff man to allow an extra base or overran a ball while thinking THROWTHROWTHROW.

 

Offensively, he wants to pull everything, and understandably so. He's blessed with tremendous power and he barreled balls at an elite rate. But his best stretches came when he at least nodded at the idea of staying up the middle. When he entered hero mode, like during the American League Championship Series vs. the Astros, he became the easiest out in the lineup, trying to yank everything and going 1 for 16 as a result.

 

Still, he blasted 31 homers while setting career highs in average (.259), on base percentage (.315), RBIs (96), and OPS. It's hard to complain about any of that, especially for 3 million bucks.

 

I came across article this while reading about Noah Song by John Tomase, dated 11/11/2021. It's probably been covered here before but pretty good summary of Renfroe as a player.

 

I never thought a Sox player would be criticized for hitting 31 homers and driving in 96 runs......modern age of analytics I guess.

Posted
I never thought a Sox player would be criticized for hitting 31 homers and driving in 96 runs......modern age of analytics I guess.

 

The only criticisms are of his defense. Defensive analytics are much better now.

 

Also, if he was set to make 3.1 million again in 2022 and 2023 I don't think he would have been traded.

Posted (edited)
Even at his best, Renfroe constantly feels like a player at war with his worst impulses. His cannon arm probably cost the Red Sox more runs than it saved, thanks to his bloodlust for assists. He recorded a league-leading 16 of them, but just as often airmailed a cutoff man to allow an extra base or overran a ball while thinking THROWTHROWTHROW.

 

Offensively, he wants to pull everything, and understandably so. He's blessed with tremendous power and he barreled balls at an elite rate. But his best stretches came when he at least nodded at the idea of staying up the middle. When he entered hero mode, like during the American League Championship Series vs. the Astros, he became the easiest out in the lineup, trying to yank everything and going 1 for 16 as a result.

 

Still, he blasted 31 homers while setting career highs in average (.259), on base percentage (.315), RBIs (96), and OPS. It's hard to complain about any of that, especially for 3 million bucks.

 

I came across article this while reading about Noah Song by John Tomase, dated 11/11/2021. It's probably been covered here before but pretty good summary of Renfroe as a player.

 

I never thought a Sox player would be criticized for hitting 31 homers and driving in 96 runs......modern age of analytics I guess.

 

I don't recall an excessive amount of missed cutoff men on Renfroe throws, but he did have some.

 

He had 12 errors. I think some were with the glove, and some were just wild throws to the base he was throwing to.

 

As for his streaky hitting, he did suck in April, but he hit .892 from May 1st to Sept 8th. The team did go 17-10 in April, while he sucked at the plate, and they went 63-52 during his hot streak.

Edited by moonslav59
Posted (edited)

Texas Ranger's 2021 opening payroll was $95M.

 

That number is sure to go up with additions of Seager ($32.5M), Semien ($25M) and pitcher Gray ($14M), total addition of $71.5M. I believe Davis ($16.75M) was in his final year of his contract and is now a FA. So some money will come off the books as well but overall, net plus on player payroll.

 

I'd imagine player's union would have applauded the signings. First two are 10 and 7 year mega deals. But my guess is that for every mega contracts added, there's probably one that's coming to an end, David Price deal comes to mind (2022).

 

There will never be a shortage of mega contracts. Owners can't help themselves. Someone will pay Devers for his bat. Count on it.

 

Thus the focus for the union has to be for 70-80% of the lowly paid players.

 

Owners need to raise the minimum wage. I just can't believe that's asking for too much money. Why not $1M? That should also raise the floor for teams on the cheap.

 

Owners should provide incentive for pre-arbitration players. It could be a 'bonus' based on some standards. But one that would not carry into following year. You pay for what a player did. This bonus pool should be contributed equally by 30 owners. Chances are good that it will benefit smaller market teams, by definition who has more 'cheap' players on the roster, or should I say more accurately more pre-arbitration players.

 

This one time bonus payment should be left off the luxury tax calculation. It's paid by the league and not the teams. Annual payment of $3M per team generates $90M into the pot. That's not much money. If you can't pay it, then you have no business owning a team. It's performance based so no player can bitch about it.

 

Just thinking of ways to make the life better for minimum wage earners.

Edited by Nick
Posted
The only criticisms are of his defense. Defensive analytics are much better now.

 

Also, if he was set to make 3.1 million again in 2022 and 2023 I don't think he would have been traded.

 

According to fangraphs, he has 16 assists and 6 throwing errors. He had an ARM rating of +1.9.

 

He had 6 fielding errors for a -3.0 error rate.

 

His range was -1.4, giving him an overall score of -2.1 UZR/150.

 

He had a -1 DRS.

 

He wasn't the worst defender on the team.

 

50+ innings by positions:

 

-28.8 Duran CF

-22.8 Dalbec 3B

-18.8 Arauz 2B

-14.1 Santana 1B

-13.2 Verdugo CF

-10.9 Shaw 1B

-10.7 JD RF

-7.6 Schwarber 1B

-5.8 Marwin 1B

-4.3 Devers 3B

-4.0 Marwin SS

-3.9 Dalbec 1B

-2.1 Renfroe RF

-1.3 Kike 2B

-1.1 Schwarber LF

Posted
Texas Ranger's 2021 opening payroll was $95M.

 

That number is sure to go up with additions of Seager ($32.5M), Semien ($25M) and pitcher Gray ($14M), total addition of $71.5M. I believe Davis ($16.75M) was in his final year of his contract and is now a FA. So some money will come off the books as well but overall, net plus on player payroll.

 

I'd imagine player's union would have applauded the signings. First two are 10 and 7 year mega deals. But my guess is that for every mega contracts added, there's probably one that's coming to an end, David Price deal comes to mind (2022).

 

There will never be a shortage of mega contracts. Owners can't help themselves. Someone will pay Devers for his bat. Count on it.

 

Thus the focus for the union has to be for 70-80% of the lowly paid players.

 

Owners need to raise the minimum wage. I just can't believe that's asking for too much money. Why not $1M? That should also raise the floor for teams on the cheap.

 

Owners should provide incentive for pre-arbitration players. It could be a 'bonus' based on some standards. But one that would not carry into following year. You pay for what a player did. This bonus pool should be contributed equally by 30 owners. Chances are good that it will benefit smaller market teams, by definition who has more 'cheap' players on the roster, or should I say more accurately more pre-arbitration players.

 

This one time bonus payment should be left off the luxury tax calculation. It's paid by the league and not the teams. Annual payment of $3M per team generates $90M into the pot. That's not much money. If you can't pay it, then you have no business of owning a team. It's performance based so no player can bitch about it.

 

Just thinking of ways to make the life better for minimum wage earners.

 

The owners have proposed a significant raise to the min salary- I think $725K flat across every season, then I think they offered $10K raises per yr.

 

That's still not enough, but it seems like that salary will rise, this time.

Posted

Luxury tax limitation....

 

I've proposed this idea in the past and this maybe a compromise between the owners and the union.

 

Each year, a team receives an exemption for one player on its roster. This will impact only few teams.

 

1. Every player has one home team designation based the team the player was with when such player became eligible for 'rookie' designation. Many Sox players qualify, Xander, Devers, etc.

 

2. Use $20M as the maximum luxury tax payroll for computing the team payroll. Thus if Devers is signed to a $30M per year deal, only $20M of his contract would count against the luxury tax.

 

3. The idea is to keep home grown talent with the team he debuted.

 

4. Suppose Sox also extend Xander's contract. Player designation for this exemption can switch from year to year.

 

Why not exempt Dever's entire payroll? Why not?

Posted

Latest from MLBTraderumors.....probably a long shot...

 

As for the Red Sox, Rosenthal lays out a scenario where Correa takes over as their shortstop given that his defense is far superior to that of Xander Bogaerts, who could be shuffled over to second base. However, he also points out that, given the lockout-shortened Spring Training to come, there will be less time for Bogaerts to develop his skills at a new position than there would be in a more normal year, perhaps making the plan too awkward to implement successfully.

 

After this season, Bogaerts can opt-out of the three years and $60MM that will be remaining on his contract, something that he seems likely to do if he has another healthy and productive season. Signing Correa now could be a way for Boston to preemptively replace Bogaerts, but as Rosenthal points out, the club hasn’t signed a free agent contract larger than $14MM since Chaim Bloom became the club’s chief baseball officer. Suddenly dropping $300MM on the table would be a huge departure in strategy.

 

However, it’s exactly because of that avoidance of significant commitments that the club’s future payroll is fairly blank. If Bogaerts does indeed opt out after this season, that would leave Chris Sale as the only serious commitment on the books.

Posted
Does anyone have an update on Noah Song? It's been several months ago but a former Navy pilot thought Noah's flight school training should have ended last fall. I thought I read this on SoxProspects site.

 

It amazes me that there's absolutely NO NEWS on this guy.

 

Has he called it quits? Anyone here with military contacts?

 

No, there hasn't been any real updates aside from conjecture and projection.

Posted
Even at his best, Renfroe constantly feels like a player at war with his worst impulses. His cannon arm probably cost the Red Sox more runs than it saved, thanks to his bloodlust for assists. He recorded a league-leading 16 of them, but just as often airmailed a cutoff man to allow an extra base or overran a ball while thinking THROWTHROWTHROW.

 

Offensively, he wants to pull everything, and understandably so. He's blessed with tremendous power and he barreled balls at an elite rate. But his best stretches came when he at least nodded at the idea of staying up the middle. When he entered hero mode, like during the American League Championship Series vs. the Astros, he became the easiest out in the lineup, trying to yank everything and going 1 for 16 as a result.

 

Still, he blasted 31 homers while setting career highs in average (.259), on base percentage (.315), RBIs (96), and OPS. It's hard to complain about any of that, especially for 3 million bucks.

 

I came across article this while reading about Noah Song by John Tomase, dated 11/11/2021. It's probably been covered here before but pretty good summary of Renfroe as a player.

 

I never thought a Sox player would be criticized for hitting 31 homers and driving in 96 runs......modern age of analytics I guess.

 

Well, per Fangraphs, Verdugo was better than Renfroe in 2021 and everyone looked at him as having a down year.

Posted
According to fangraphs, he has 16 assists and 6 throwing errors. He had an ARM rating of +1.9.

 

He had 6 fielding errors for a -3.0 error rate.

 

His range was -1.4, giving him an overall score of -2.1 UZR/150.

 

He had a -1 DRS.

 

He wasn't the worst defender on the team.

 

50+ innings by positions:

 

-28.8 Duran CF

-22.8 Dalbec 3B

-18.8 Arauz 2B

-14.1 Santana 1B

-13.2 Verdugo CF

-10.9 Shaw 1B

-10.7 JD RF

-7.6 Schwarber 1B

-5.8 Marwin 1B

-4.3 Devers 3B

-4.0 Marwin SS

-3.9 Dalbec 1B

-2.1 Renfroe RF

-1.3 Kike 2B

-1.1 Schwarber LF

 

I didn't think that much of Arauz, but that number is UGLY.

Posted (edited)
I didn't think that much of Arauz, but that number is UGLY.

 

It's even worse for his career!

 

-20.5 in 187 innings at 2B

 

He is a plus, elsewhere:

 

+18.4 at 3B (35 innings)

 

+17.2 at SS (112 innings), which is where he may be most needed.

Edited by moonslav59

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