A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[notin]

What we'll never know is the impact Stickygate had on certain pitchers.

 

Worth noting Barnes’ collapse was several weeks after MLB banned sticky substances. In fact, he was better after the ban than before it for several weeks…

[Nick]

If one does not, I'll be shocked.

 

The cheapest route would be to not offer ERod the QO and move both Houck and Whitlock into the rotation.

 

Eoavldi

Sale

Houck

Whitlock

Pivetta

Seabold

 

Then, go and try to find some top pen arms without paying too much.

 

Thank you

[Larry Cook]

Our OF is fine.

 

Verdugo in LF

Kike in CF

Renfroe in RF

 

The beauty of Hernandez and Taylor is they can play multiple infield positions as well!

[moonslav59]

The beauty of Hernandez and Taylor is they can play multiple infield positions as well!

 

Our infield is fine, too.

[moonslav59]

Thank you

 

The cheapest route may not be the best.

[Larry Cook]

Our infield is fine, too.

 

Have you seen them play defense?

[moonslav59]

Have you seen them play defense?

 

Yes, and 2B is not the neediest IF position on defense- by far.

Edited October 17, 2021 by moonslav59

[Nick]

The cheapest route may not be the best.

 

This is when the Rays laugh at us. Fanbase calling $220M payroll CHEAP.

 

You and I differ only on where to spend the money, not how much. I'd prefer Schwarber and bullpen, you want to spend on starting pitching.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

This is when the Rays laugh at us. Fanbase calling $220M payroll CHEAP.

 

Too much Rays love, Nick. We just beat them, man. And it's 4 rings to 0 this century. Stop with the Rays worship.

[Bellhorn04]

Worth noting Barnes’ collapse was several weeks after MLB banned sticky substances. In fact, he was better after the ban than before it for several weeks…

 

You're right. And I have no idea what happened to Barnes. But the sticky stuff thing is kind of like steroids, it raises a lot of suspicion whether justified or not.

[Nick]

Too much Rays love, Nick. We just beat them, man. And it's 4 rings to 0 this century. Stop with the Rays worship.

 

Just having little fun with my buddy Moon.....Rays young players are hoping for good couple of years to get moved to a team that can pay them a fair wage.

[Nick]

Cody Belinger is making $16.1M this in his arb 2 year. He has two more years of arbitration. Mookie earned $20M in arb 2 year (2019) before being traded to LA.

 

Cody's agent is Boras. Looks like he'll eclipse $20M for 2022.

[Bellhorn04]

Cody Belinger is making $16.1M this in his arb 2 year. He has two more years of arbitration. Mookie earned $20M in arb 2 year (2019) before being traded to LA.

 

Cody's agent is Boras. Looks like he'll eclipse $20M for 2022.

 

Bellinger is very talented, but statistically, he was one of the worst players in the game this year. It'll be interesting to see how that affects the arb.

[notin]

The beauty of Hernandez and Taylor is they can play multiple infield positions as well!

 

Not to mention throw on left-handed gloves and work outta the pen!!

[notin]

Bellinger is very talented, but statistically, he was one of the worst players in the game this year. It'll be interesting to see how that affects the arb.

 

Probably not much. He’ll probably attend the hearing with his MVP trophy…

[Maxbialystock]

Too much Rays love, Nick. We just beat them, man. And it's 4 rings to 0 this century. Stop with the Rays worship.

 

Actually, I think you can like both franchises. The Rays ability to compete on a low budget is incredible, but, just as you say, the Sox in the John Henry era have no peer. I would even argue that the Rays were the worthy opponent in the ALDS, making the Sox win that much more triumphant.

[moonslav59]

This is when the Rays laugh at us. Fanbase calling $220M payroll CHEAP.

 

You and I differ only on where to spend the money, not how much. I'd prefer Schwarber and bullpen, you want to spend on starting pitching.

 

I said cheapest not cheap.

 

We are going to spend, this winter. If it's not on SP'ing it will be on something else.

 

I'd love to have Scwarber back, but despite how this season has proven you can win with offense and not pitching and D, I'm still a believer that adding top quality not quantity to the pitching staff as much and as often as possible is the winning strategy.

 

Right now, we are working wonders with having 1 capable starter and a couple pen arms, but don't expect that to be a long term winning philosophy.

 

Just my opinion. It's going to take more than a whacked out AL season, this year, to budge me from it.

[Bellhorn04]

Fun fact: in 26 postseason games, J. D. Martinez has 28 RBI. And a .967 OPS.

[oldtimer]

Every organization has strengths and weaknesses. The Sox are no different and the hope is the current management recognizes the weakness and will make smart moves that represent real improvements going forward. We are blessed with an ownership who have been willing to spend to make improvements and I expect they would do the same in the future, although one hopes no as foolishly as some of the moves of the past. We are over Pedey and will be past Price after next year. The other big risk is the Sale extension. Will he return to the Ace quality or will we take another major hit through the end of 2024?

 

So Bloom has done an excellent job to date of strengthening our prospect list and building a competitive team while staying below the CBT.

is

1. I expect Bloom to continue to strengthen our prospect list while trading away assets not expected to make the Sox club.

2. Starting pitching is expensive yet we have only Eovaldi, Sale? and Pivetta who are clear starters in 2022. E-Rod may be gone and one of Houck, Whitlock or Seabold is expected to make a 4th. So a starting pitcher is an expensive addition but is needed for the club to improve.

3. I don't expect Davis, Ottavino or Richards to return. Same with Perez in long relief. Bloom needs to bolster the pen from within if possible or by trade or FA if necessary.

4. 2nd base is still an open question. Arroyo is good but we also need our utility players to be good so he could have a place even if we trade for a FT 2nd baseman.

5. We currently have two DH players for one spot. JDM and Schwaber are both good but we don't need two. bloom needs to decide how to move forward.

6. At catcher we have Vaz and better quality replacements would be in demand and expensive. Possibly keep him and look to the prospect Hernandez as backup?

7. FB is still a question mark. Is Dalbeck the guy or does Casas come to bolster or replace him? I think Shaw goes after this year.

8. One would hope our utility players can be more competitive next year. Could we go with Duran, Arroyo and Casas? Could be worse.

[moonslav59]

Actually, I think you can like both franchises. The Rays ability to compete on a low budget is incredible, but, just as you say, the Sox in the John Henry era have no peer. I would even argue that the Rays were the worthy opponent in the ALDS, making the Sox win that much more triumphant.

 

I respect the hell out of what the Rays can do year after year with that budget, but it's not the low budget that keeps them winning. It's great management and an incredible ability to judge the value of their own players and those on other teams and their farms- not so much via drafting.

 

We can and seemingly are taking some of their strategies to heart by acquiring gems in the rough, but we can do that and spend, too. If we got the money, spend it.

 

I'm even okay with adopting some strategies of the Rays that seem to be money orientated- like trading studs before their big paydays, but that can and should be a strategy used by big spending teams, too. It's a winning strategy not a poor team strategy by itself.

[moonslav59]

Fun fact: in 26 postseason games, J. D. Martinez has 28 RBI. And a .967 OPS.

 

Who was the guy who wanted JD left off the ALDS roster?

[moonslav59]

3. I don't expect Davis, Ottavino or Richards to return. Same with Perez in long relief. Bloom needs to bolster the pen from within if possible or by trade or FA if necessary.

.

 

Maybe you meant Robles, who is a FA. Davis is not a FA.

[moonslav59]

I think we sign a very solid infield utility player who can play SS and 2B well. If Arroyo keep getting hurt, the guy can be counted on to play FT.

 

Iggy seems like a nice fit and should not cost much.

 

The Schwarber vs JD or Schwarber AND JD debate will rage all winter long, but to me, the best way for a team to improve is to work on improving its weakest areas. DH/OF is not our weakest area. It's actually an area of strength, especially when keeping Kike in CF. If we can find a way to move JD and bring Schwarber onboard at little extra cost, I'm fine with that, but JD had been a big part of this team and the clubhouse.

 

Our highest need areas are obvious, to me.

 

1. Pitcher

2. Pitcher

3. Pitcher

 

(Utility infielder is a distant 4th, and more pitching is at #5 and #6.)

 

I don't mean to put down anyone who thinks differently by saying it is "obvious," but aren't we all on pins and needles when anyone but Eovaldi starts and anyone not named Whitlock or Houck are brought in from the pen?

 

Expecting Cora to continue working miracles with the staff, next year, so we can enjoy watching JD and Schwarber rake is too risky for my liking.

[Maxbialystock]

Every organization has strengths and weaknesses. The Sox are no different and the hope is the current management recognizes the weakness and will make smart moves that represent real improvements going forward. We are blessed with an ownership who have been willing to spend to make improvements and I expect they would do the same in the future, although one hopes no as foolishly as some of the moves of the past. We are over Pedey and will be past Price after next year. The other big risk is the Sale extension. Will he return to the Ace quality or will we take another major hit through the end of 2024?

 

So Bloom has done an excellent job to date of strengthening our prospect list and building a competitive team while staying below the CBT.

is

1. I expect Bloom to continue to strengthen our prospect list while trading away assets not expected to make the Sox club.

2. Starting pitching is expensive yet we have only Eovaldi, Sale? and Pivetta who are clear starters in 2022. E-Rod may be gone and one of Houck, Whitlock or Seabold is expected to make a 4th. So a starting pitcher is an expensive addition but is needed for the club to improve.

3. I don't expect Davis, Ottavino or Richards to return. Same with Perez in long relief. Bloom needs to bolster the pen from within if possible or by trade or FA if necessary.

4. 2nd base is still an open question. Arroyo is good but we also need our utility players to be good so he could have a place even if we trade for a FT 2nd baseman.

5. We currently have two DH players for one spot. JDM and Schwaber are both good but we don't need two. bloom needs to decide how to move forward.

6. At catcher we have Vaz and better quality replacements would be in demand and expensive. Possibly keep him and look to the prospect Hernandez as backup?

7. FB is still a question mark. Is Dalbeck the guy or does Casas come to bolster or replace him? I think Shaw goes after this year.

8. One would hope our utility players can be more competitive next year. Could we go with Duran, Arroyo and Casas? Could be worse.

 

I leave the discussion of cost to moonslav, but my preference would be to try to keep the lineup we've watched in the postseason, especially Schwarber, and hopefully to bring back Iglesias as well. Keep Dalbec and Duran unless trading them helps bring back a good pitcher.

 

Agree the rotation and bullpen both need help, but I will be fine if Bloom works to improve both while avoiding the luxury tax.

[moonslav59]

I leave the discussion of cost to moonslav, but my preference would be to try to keep the lineup we've watched in the postseason, especially Schwarber, and hopefully to bring back Iglesias as well. Keep Dalbec and Duran unless trading them helps bring back a good pitcher.

 

Agree the rotation and bullpen both need help, but I will be fine if Bloom works to improve both while avoiding the luxury tax.

 

If the lux tax stays about the same, we should have $35-40M to spend without going over, but I expect Henry to allow extra spending, this year.

 

If ERod is given the QO and accepts it, that almost half the $40M without really gaining anything from 2021, unless ERod does much better.

 

Maybe we trade for some pitching pieces, and the money can be spent on Schwarber and Iggy.

 

Who do we trade without opening new holes or seriously hurting the farm?

 

Bogey?

Vaz?

JD?

Dalbec? (If we sign Schwarber)

Duran?

Downs?

Casas?

[Maxbialystock]

If the lux tax stays about the same, we should have $35-40M to spend without going over, but I expect Henry to allow extra spending, this year.

 

If ERod is given the QO and accepts it, that almost half the $40M without really gaining anything from 2021, unless ERod does much better.

 

Maybe we trade for some pitching pieces, and the money can be spent on Schwarber and Iggy.

 

Who do we trade without opening new holes or seriously hurting the farm?

 

Bogey?

Vaz?

JD?

Dalbec? (If we sign Schwarber)

Duran?

Downs?

Casas?

 

Oh, stop it. I understand all of the above, but it's still above my paygrade.

 

I think keeping both Sale, which the Sox have no choice in, and ERod is spending too much on long shots. So, even though I kind of agree with you that ERod ain't as bad as people claim, no way would I give him a QO over $10M. So I think Bloom goes with Eovaldi, Sale, Pivetta, Houck, and a player to be named later, and gets some more arms for the bullpen.

 

He will always have the opportunity to trade Schwarber, JDM, Dalbec, whoever if the pitching needs gets urgent enough.

[Bellhorn04]

I think we sign a very solid infield utility player who can play SS and 2B well. If Arroyo keep getting hurt, the guy can be counted on to play FT.

 

Iggy seems like a nice fit and should not cost much.

 

Just read that Iggy, while not eligible to play in the postseason, has stayed with the team and is serving as Cora's 'intern' and helping out any way he can. Pretty cool.

[Nick]

If the lux tax stays about the same, we should have $35-40M to spend without going over, but I expect Henry to allow extra spending, this year.

 

If ERod is given the QO and accepts it, that almost half the $40M without really gaining anything from 2021, unless ERod does much better.

 

Maybe we trade for some pitching pieces, and the money can be spent on Schwarber and Iggy.

 

Who do we trade without opening new holes or seriously hurting the farm?

 

Bogey?

Vaz?

JD?

Dalbec? (If we sign Schwarber)

Duran?

Downs?

Casas?

 

You the one always saying we may go over the tax limit next year. And I'm agreeing with you. With that all I'm saying is Schwarber/JD contracts will only overlap for one year.

 

I'm pretty sure you're enjoying watching Schwarber hitting alongside JD, Kike, Devers, Xander, Verdugo and Renfroe.

[moonslav59]

Oh, stop it. I understand all of the above, but it's still above my paygrade.

 

I think keeping both Sale, which the Sox have no choice in, and ERod is spending too much on long shots. So, even though I kind of agree with you that ERod ain't as bad as people claim, no way would I give him a QO over $10M. So I think Bloom goes with Eovaldi, Sale, Pivetta, Houck, and a player to be named later, and gets some more arms for the bullpen.

 

He will always have the opportunity to trade Schwarber, JDM, Dalbec, whoever if the pitching needs gets urgent enough.

 

Stop what?

[moonslav59]

Just read that Iggy, while not eligible to play in the postseason, has stayed with the team and is serving as Cora's 'intern' and helping out any way he can. Pretty cool.

 

It was nice seeing him in the dugout.

 

I thinkhe'll be back, next year.