Who gets sent down from the rotation once Sale is back?

[moonslav59]

@alexspeier

Bogaerts says he’s noticed instances over the last couple weeks where he hasn’t seen sliders with the same bite that pitchers typically have, and he’s wondered whether that’s been a product of the absence of foreign substances

 

Xander really throwing the Sox rotation under the bus here.

 

He wasn't talking about Sox pitchers, was he?

[Bellhorn04]

He wasn't talking about Sox pitchers, was he?

 

I have to guess not.

[moonslav59]

I have to guess not.

 

That's what I thought, and if he's talking about all pitchers in general, that's not really calling out your own pitchers either.

[mvp 78]

That's what I thought, and if he's talking about all pitchers in general, that's not really calling out your own pitchers either.

 

It was a joke.

[moonslav59]

It was a joke.

 

I shoulda known

[Hugh2]

I was never that high on Johnson, and I don't think anyone ever saw his ceiling as being any higher than a 4-5 starter I remember being high on Henry Owens and Anderson Espinoza.

 

While Groome has been the #1 Sox prospects a couple times, and the last Sox pitcher to reach #1 on soxprospects.com, I never was very high on him, either.

 

Even now, I like Bello and Song more than Mata, Ward & Groome.

 

 

The problem with prospects is often times we evaluate them and talk about them in the future of being boom or busts. Every guy that hits well and pitches well in the minors is a future MVP/CY young guy, that may be a bit hyperbolic but I think it makes my point. Johnson always projected as a back-of-the-rotation starter. Often prospects don't reach their ceiling and they become something in-between. For some perspective, let's look at a guy like Houk, who many envision as this great starter who is going to come up and take a spot in our rotation. Could he? yes, but I don't think he's any more than a back-of-the-rotation starter if he can refine his offerings. You can get guys out in the minors with two good pitches but you'll get chewed up in the bigs the second time through an order. So what happens is everyone scouts the box scores and assumes this guy can transition his MiLB dominance into the majors but that will never be the case if he can't refine his stuff.

 

Will Houk be a bust? maybe, maybe not if makes some improvements, but he could also fall somewhere in between and become a reliever, a very good reliever at that too. Think Matt Barnes. Matt Barnes failed as a starter and now he's one of the best closers in the game.

 

I think of someone like Duran too, who I think could have a really good MLB career, but people talk about him in here as if he's going to be an all star who will immediately make this team better. Maybe he will help this team right now (can't do much worse than Santana) but there's a good chance he's not going to be as good as many think he is.

[moonslav59]

Well said.

 

Hardly anyone thought much of Houck, then after 3 starts, he is a stud in the eyes of some.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Based on the law of averages, the SOX farm is way overdue to provide the parent team a decent starter. Not entirely sure this is a real law.

[Larry Cook]

Based on the law of averages, the SOX farm is way overdue to provide the parent team a decent starter. Not entirely sure this is a real law.

 

In order for the Sox to develop a decent pitcher, they are going to have to revamp the development process.

 

Step 1: don’t send Stevie wonder and eat Charles to scout pitchers live.

 

Step 2: hire real pitching coaches. Better yet steal the best minor league pitching coaches from other teams.

 

Step 3: drafting guys with two good pitchers and hoping they can develop a change up is a terrible strategy.

[moonslav59]

In order for the Sox to develop a decent pitcher, they are going to have to revamp the development process.

 

Step 1: don’t send Stevie wonder and eat Charles to scout pitchers live.

 

Step 2: hire real pitching coaches. Better yet steal the best minor league pitching coaches from other teams.

 

Step 3: drafting guys with two good pitchers and hoping they can develop a change up is a terrible strategy.

 

Hiring Bloom was the first step. We should start seeing signs of a difference in the next year or so.

[Larry Cook]

Hiring Bloom was the first step. We should start seeing signs of a difference in the next year or so.

 

And you think this because……

[moonslav59]

And you think this because……

 

Because I saw what the Rays did for over a decade under his control and influence.

 

There have been many changes in the scouting and development areas in the Sox systam.

[Hugh2]

If a pitcher has two really good pitches, and then a third pitch he’s going at the top of the draft. If a guy falls to where the Sox normally pick with 3 pitches he’s going to have serious health issues and/or control issues.

[moonslav59]

If a pitcher has two really good pitches, and then a third pitch he’s going at the top of the draft. If a guy falls to where the Sox normally pick with 3 pitches he’s going to have serious health issues and/or control issues.

 

We should do better than T Ball.

 

We may get Davis.

 

I like our chances at getting Jobe, Leiter or Rocker, if we don't get the catcher, Davis

[mvp 78]

We should do better than T Ball.

 

We may get Davis.

 

I like our chances at getting Jobe, Leiter or Rocker, if we don't get the catcher, Davis

 

Ball wasn't taken so high because of his dominant arm. He was taken high because of his athleticism and the Sox felt they could develop him into something. Leiter and Rocker already have the arms to move through the system barring injury.

[Larry Cook]

Ball wasn't taken so high because of his dominant arm. He was taken high because of his athleticism and the Sox felt they could develop him into something. Leiter and Rocker already have the arms to move through the system barring injury.

 

When you want them pitch, it seems rocker does not generate many swings and misses.

 

Leiter generates quite a few swings snd misses, he is definitely a guy that could move through the system fairly quickly.

[mvp 78]

When you want them pitch, it seems rocker does not generate many swings and misses.

 

Leiter generates quite a few swings snd misses, he is definitely a guy that could move through the system fairly quickly.

 

Rocker has 174 K’s. Leiter has 171.

 

No swing and miss?

[Bellhorn04]

Rocker has 174 K’s. Leiter has 171.

 

No swing and miss?

 

Rocker must be the king of catching 'em looking!

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I don't have the data on this but I've heard that while Rocker gets swings and misses he doesn't get enough swings and misses with his fastball and that has people concerned.

 

This is something that pertains specifically to his fastball, not his other pitches.

[moonslav59]

I don't have the data on this but I've heard that while Rocker gets swings and misses he doesn't get enough swings and misses with his fastball and that has people concerned.

 

This is something that pertains specifically to his fastball, not his other pitches.

Isn’t getting swings and misses at a variety of pitches a good thing?

[Maxbialystock]

And you think this because……

 

In 2008 he wrote the Rays manual on how to develop players, especially pitchers. Since then the Rays have been better than the Sox at developing players, especially pitchers. DD got the GM/President job because his forte is buying players, especially pitchers, and he doesn't mind coughing up talent in the farm system.

[moonslav59]

In 2008 he wrote the Rays manual on how to develop players, especially pitchers. Since then the Rays have been better than the Sox at developing players, especially pitchers. DD got the GM/President job because his forte is buying players, especially pitchers, and he doesn't mind coughing up talent in the farm system.

 

I guess this doesn’t fit the narrative of Bloom being clueless.

[Larry Cook]

I don't have the data on this but I've heard that while Rocker gets swings and misses he doesn't get enough swings and misses with his fastball and that has people concerned.

 

This is something that pertains specifically to his fastball, not his other pitches.

 

What had scouts concerned about rocker’s other pitches is there are a lot of mechanical flaws that someone will need to clean up. If they get that cleaned up and he learns how to get late movement on his fastball, then he will be a beast!

[notin]

The problem with the question in this thread title is no one asked Garrett Richards. He clearly has the answer...

[Kimmi]

The problem with the question in this thread title is no one asked Garrett Richards. He clearly has the answer...

 

Richards made some progress last night after the 2nd inning. I am pleased with that.

 

Renfroe nailed it in his comments, saying that Richards has to get out of his own head.

 

Maybe the limited success he saw last night will spark some confidence and a different mindset in him.

[moonslav59]

Richards made some progress last night after the 2nd inning. I am pleased with that.

 

Renfroe nailed it in his comments, saying that Richards has to get out of his own head.

 

Maybe the limited success he saw last night will spark some confidence and a different mindset in him.

 

When you are starting to pitch a whole new pitch at this point in the season and his career, and it being a 67 mph curveball at that, it’s more than just something in his head.

[mvp 78]

What did Renfroe say exactly?

[Behindenemylines]

Richards made some progress last night after the 2nd inning. I am pleased with that.

 

Renfroe nailed it in his comments, saying that Richards has to get out of his own head.

 

Maybe the limited success he saw last night will spark some confidence and a different mindset in him.

 

As of right now it would be Richards, but wouldn’t be surprised if a six man rotation was used. All of the Sox starters have had issues with staying healthy.

[Maxbialystock]

The chances no starter gets hurt by the time Sale comes back are rather high. There is even a chance we’ll need Sale and another starter at some point.

 

That being said, if Sale we’re ready, right now, and looking like he can start, I’d put Eovaldi as the top set up man to Barnes. I doubt Cora and Bloom agree. My guess is they’d move Perez to long relief.

 

I don't doubt Eovaldi would be good as a set up man, but guess what? The Sox already have Ottavino, Whitlock, and, last night (when he gave up 2 dingers during a downpour at Yankee Stadium) notwithstanding, Sawamura. Plus Houck, I would think.

 

Meanwhile, the rotation suffers because, unlike the relievers, they have to go through opposing lineups at least twice and often three times. So, me, I would give the rotation priority over the bullpen, especially because it's already pretty good. So, come August, my rotation would be, in order, Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, ERod, and Perez. And, because those 5 include 3 lefty starters, I just might stretch Houck and start him over Perez. As for Richards, I'd give him Andriese's old slot.

[Maxbialystock]

When you are starting to pitch a whole new pitch at this point in the season and his career, and it being a 67 mph curveball at that, it’s more than just something in his head.

 

Garrett Richards is beyond question a big baby. 350 other MLB pitchers have dealt with the "no foreign substance" dictum without whining incessantly and moping around on the mound.