Since they lost last night, I need to tell you what I REALLY feel about the 2021 Sox!

[Elktonnick]

No.

 

That tweet does not say who makes the calls at all. It keeps everything in a vague state about the organization. I suppose if someone desperately wanted to interpret that tweet hat way, thy could probably find something that might support a biased fantasy, I guess. Like where it says "Clubs also have to make choices." I mean, if you believe this means the principal ownership group is making the choices, then yeah., it's Henry to you. But like everything in that tweet, it's all pretty vague and non-specific.

 

And it certainly does not definitively support the idea that Henry is making the call all by himself...

 

Come on after reading that tweet and analyzing it you actually think that Henry and Werner deferr to an underling on a matter of that importance to the franchise's future. Of course they do not. Here is the way it works every major decision must I repeat must be run by ownership. That tweet makes clear that Henry AND Werner were intimately involved in all major decisions.

 

Once again you have a knack of drawing incorrect inferences from the written word. I never said that Henry makes the call all by himself. He has paid staff to give him all the information and recommendations of what final decision to make including the pro and cons of a particular course of action. That is the way all high performance and successful organizations work. But in the end the final say is his not Bloom not Dombrowski not Epstein. That tweet clear showed the Henry knew what was going on and why.

[Bellhorn04]

Come on after reading that tweet and analyzing it you actually think that Henry and Werner deferr to an underling on a matter of that importance to the franchise's future. Of course they do not. Here is the way it works every major decision must I repeat must be run by ownership. That tweet makes clear that Henry AND Werner were intimately involved in all major decisions.

 

Once again you have a knack of drawing incorrect inferences from the written word. I never said that Henry makes the call all by himself. He has paid staff to give him all the information and recommendations of what final decision to make including the pro and cons of a particular course of action. That is the way all high performance and successful organizations work. But in the end the final say is his not Bloom not Dombrowski not Epstein. That tweet clear showed the Henry knew what was going on and why.

 

In this offseason's managerial search, there were stories that ownership was highly in favor of bringing Cora back.

 

Then Sam Kennedy made an explicit statement that the call was going to be Bloom's. And from all reports Bloom had a number of intense conversations with Cora before deciding to hire him.

 

Bloom is getting to make plenty of calls, I believe. The direction from Henry is mostly budget parameters, I believe. And of course Henry knows what's going on. There's a big difference between that and making the calls.

[Elktonnick]

In this offseason's managerial search, there were stories that ownership was highly in favor of bringing Cora back.

 

Then Sam Kennedy made an explicit statement that the call was going to be Bloom's. And from all reports Bloom had a number of intense conversations with Cora before deciding to hire him.

 

Bloom is getting to make plenty of calls, I believe. The direction from Henry is mostly budget parameters, I believe. And of course Henry knows what's going on. There's a big difference between that and making the calls.

 

Really! You actually believe that. Henry allowed Bloom to make the call on Cora because he already knew what the decision was going to be having clearly made his affinity for him known. Bloom and Kennedy wanted very much to keep their jobs.

You folks can believe what you want but Red Sox history shows John Henry gets what John Henry wants and woe to those who cross him which is why he is still there and Epstein Cheerington, and Dombrowski are not.

[jacksonianmarch]

If the Sox buy heavily or mildly at the deadline is entirely up to what Henry and Co thinks about their chances. While baseball is truly a “momentum stops at the next day’s pitcher” type of game, the better teams typically make deep runs.

 

To this point in the season, the Sox have had pretty good health (I know Kike and Arroyo are hurt, but nothing serious) and they’ve doubly benefited from the dead ball. Their top hitters don’t seem phased by it and the pitchers have tremendously benefited from it. Baseball is a game of adjustments, and as hitters adjust to the new flight path of the ball, we should see offense tick up across the sport. Offense rising means a rotation of overachieving misfits should regress. The real question is not if, but when they fade. If by mid July the rotation of the Sox is still holding teams at bay and the Sox are comfortably up, they’ll buy and might buy big. If they’re in a dog fight with teams that have more talent, I think they’ll get a cursory add on and nothing more.

 

I don’t think the Sox brass are sold on 21 as a title type season, nor do I think they should be. But every day that passes with another Sox win is going to alter that thought process for all of us.

[Bellhorn04]

Really! You actually believe that. Henry allowed Bloom to make the call on Cora because he already knew what the decision was going to be having clearly made his affinity for him known. Bloom and Kennedy wanted very much to keep their jobs.

 

Absolute nonsense.

 

It's common practice to let the head of ops choose the manager.

 

Cherington wanted Farrell.

 

Dombrowski wanted Cora.

[Elktonnick]

Absolute nonsense.

 

It's common practice to let the head of ops choose the manager.

 

Cherington wanted Farrell.

 

Dombrowski wanted Cora.

And Henry wanted them all. The only nonsense is that you actually believe that ownership actually lets underlings make major decisions without their approval. You wouldn't last ten minutes in a major sports organization if you actually operated that way.

[moonslav59]

Absolute nonsense.

 

It's common practice to let the head of ops choose the manager.

 

Cherington wanted Farrell.

 

Dombrowski wanted Cora.

 

What about the Booby V (intentionally misspelled) fiasco?

 

BTW, I think Henry lays out a plan with priorities, and the GM does his own think within that plan, like "I want this to be a high priority: reset in 2020 and stay under in 2021."

[Elktonnick]

What Elktonnick seems to be suggesting is that Henry and Werner are in the mood to make a splash, especially after the soccer fiasco.

 

But they didn't hire Bloom to make expensive splashes, certainly not this year anyway.

 

They hired Bloom to make recommendations and to carry out ownership directives if ownership decides a new strategic direction. Of course Bloom et all will have input into that change in strategic direction.

What you all fail to realize is Henry's strong suit has been his ability to recognize undervalued assets , buy them and turn them around. After his abysmal failure in the Premier League, Baseball coming out of the pandemic might afford him just such an opportunity. Some clubs are not in a very good financial position because of the pandemic, Boston just might be well placed to take advantage of the situation. I would not underestimate Henry's ability to make such a pivot if he senses an opportunity to do so.

[Elktonnick]

What about the Booby V (intentionally misspelled) fiasco?

 

BTW, I think Henry lays out a plan with priorities, and the GM does his own think within that plan, like "I want this to be a high priority: reset in 2020 and stay under in 2021."

 

Bobby V was an ownership decision all the way. Larry Lucchino wanted BV.and he was and still is part owner of the Red Sox although he plays no role except that he is owner of the Worcester Red Sox. It was the BV fiasco that helped cause the departure of Lucchino from his active role in the ownership group.

[Bellhorn04]

What about the Booby V (intentionally misspelled) fiasco?

 

Yes, Booby V was the exception. The kind that surely persuaded ownership to stay out of managerial picks henceforth.

[Elktonnick]

Yes, Booby V was the exception. The kind that surely persuaded ownership to stay out of managerial picks henceforth.

 

No it caused ownership to keep Larry Lucchino out of the managerial selection process. Henry and Werner still have final word do not kid yourself. Bloom dances to their tune.

[moonslav59]

Nobody is saying Henry does not have the final word.

 

The point of contention is does he voice his over-riding commands over everything?

[Nick]

If the Sox buy heavily or mildly at the deadline is entirely up to what Henry and Co thinks about their chances. While baseball is truly a “momentum stops at the next day’s pitcher” type of game, the better teams typically make deep runs.

 

To this point in the season, the Sox have had pretty good health (I know Kike and Arroyo are hurt, but nothing serious) and they’ve doubly benefited from the dead ball. Their top hitters don’t seem phased by it and the pitchers have tremendously benefited from it. Baseball is a game of adjustments, and as hitters adjust to the new flight path of the ball, we should see offense tick up across the sport. Offense rising means a rotation of overachieving misfits should regress. The real question is not if, but when they fade. If by mid July the rotation of the Sox is still holding teams at bay and the Sox are comfortably up, they’ll buy and might buy big. If they’re in a dog fight with teams that have more talent, I think they’ll get a cursory add on and nothing more.

 

I don’t think the Sox brass are sold on 21 as a title type season, nor do I think they should be. But every day that passes with another Sox win is going to alter that thought process for all of us.

 

I am skeptical of 2021 World Series run unless somehow we get the old Chris Sale back in time for the playoffs. My guess is that's probably not likely. Maybe he can add a tremendous depth piece to the pen.

 

I'm a firm believer that pitching wins in short series (best of 5, best of 7). Although our starters have done extremely well for the purpose of pennant chase, they are not getting into 7th innings. Basically they pitch well for 5 innings and hand the baton. I don't think that will work in short series against good teams. Too many innings out of multiple relievers to navigate.

 

I'll f***ing say it. We don't have a G Cole that can shut down a team for 7 innings. That has not been the pattern to this point anyway. Who knows, maybe it's been by design by Cora. In essence we don't have an ace. Last night is good example. 5 1/3 (I think) by our hard throwing Nathan Eovaldi. He pitched well mind you. It was hold on to your hat the last 4 innings.

 

Obviously anything can happen in a short series. But to win 3 consecutive best of 7 series, lack of ace quality starter will surface eventually.

 

I root for the Sox every day and I'm thoroughly enjoying this season. Perez, Pivetta and Richards have given us outstanding innings for 3-5 pitchers. We are beginning to see what the future of Sox looks like from position players. The core group is beginning to surface.

 

I guess the ultimate question is if we make the playoffs, would I bet my house on the Sox? You give me prime time Chris Sale, then I think about it. Doubtful otherwise.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Nick

[Elktonnick]

If the Sox buy heavily or mildly at the deadline is entirely up to what Henry and Co thinks about their chances. While baseball is truly a “momentum stops at the next day’s pitcher” type of game, the better teams typically make deep runs.

 

To this point in the season, the Sox have had pretty good health (I know Kike and Arroyo are hurt, but nothing serious) and they’ve doubly benefited from the dead ball. Their top hitters don’t seem phased by it and the pitchers have tremendously benefited from it. Baseball is a game of adjustments, and as hitters adjust to the new flight path of the ball, we should see offense tick up across the sport. Offense rising means a rotation of overachieving misfits should regress. The real question is not if, but when they fade. If by mid July the rotation of the Sox is still holding teams at bay and the Sox are comfortably up, they’ll buy and might buy big. If they’re in a dog fight with teams that have more talent, I think they’ll get a cursory add on and nothing more.

 

I don’t think the Sox brass are sold on 21 as a title type season, nor do I think they should be. But every day that passes with another Sox win is going to alter that thought process for all of us.

 

I agree. Right now the ALE is still a four team race, the Is are clearly out of it. While I think the Jays have a solid club their inability to play in Toronto will be fatal to any playoff run unless the Canadian gov't permits them to play at home.

[Bellhorn04]

No it caused ownership to keep Larry Lucchino out of the managerial selection process. Henry and Werner still have final word do not kid yourself. Bloom dances to their tune.

 

Cherington picked Farrell. Dombrowski picked Cora. Bloom picked Roenicke and Cora. These decisions are within their province. It's very simple.

 

Henry can fire the head of ops whenever he wants, we all know that.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

I am skeptical of 2021 World Series run unless somehow we get the old Chris Sale back in time for the playoffs. My guess is that's probably not likely. Maybe he can add a tremendous depth piece to the pen.

 

I'm a firm believer that pitching wins in short series (best of 5, best of 7). Although our starters have done extremely well for the purpose of pennant chase, they are not getting into 7th innings. Basically they pitch well for 5 innings and hand the baton. I don't think that will work in short series against good teams. Too many innings out of multiple relievers to navigate.

 

I'll f***ing say it. We don't have a G Cole that can shut down a team for 7 innings. That has not been the pattern to this point anyway. Who knows, maybe it's been by design by Cora. In essence we don't have an ace. Last night is good example. 5 1/3 (I think) by our hard throwing Nathan Eovaldi.

 

Obviously anything can happen in a short series. But to win 3 consecutive best of 7 series, lack of ace quality starter will surface eventually.

 

I root for the Sox every day and I'm thoroughly enjoying this season. Perez, Pivetta and Richards have given us outstanding innings for 3-5 pitchers. We are beginning to see what the future of Sox looks like from position players. The core group is beginning to surface.

 

I guess the ultimate question is if we make the playoffs, would I bet my house on the Sox? You give me prime time Chris Sale, then I think about it. Doubtful otherwise.

 

Cole has no rings. Cole did not beat the Rays in Game 5 last year.

 

Sale was only a minor factor in the 2018 postseason.

 

All these rules are made to be broken.

[Elktonnick]

Cherington picked Farrell. Dombrowski picked Cora. Bloom picked Roenicke and Cora. These decisions are within their province. It's very simple.

 

Henry can fire the head of ops whenever he wants, we all know that.

 

/www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/john-henry-boston-red-sox-hiring-alex-cora-mana

Boston THE RED SOX HIRE ALEX CORA November 6, 2017

 

Notes: Staying under luxury tax not a goal for 2018

“We didn't just change managers,” Henry said after Cora’s introductory press conference at Fenway Park. “I think when the end of the season came, we were all of the mind that we needed change. Sometimes an organization benefits from change. We decided that the organization would benefit. John had a tremendous tenure here; back-to-back division championships is a really difficult thing. Sometimes you want change not just because of your results but there's a time and a place for it. We thought this was really the right time.”

 

[b]Henry and Red Sox chairman Tom Werner were coincidentally in New York when the Red Sox interviewed Cora during the postseason, Henry said. So they were a part of the interview as well.

 

Yea it is simple alright so long as the owner interviews and approves the hire just like Henry did in Cora's case in 2017.

[Nick]

Cole has no rings. Cole did not beat the Rays in Game 5 last year.

 

Sale was only a minor factor in the 2018 postseason.

 

All these rules are made to be broken.

 

All good points. There's still plenty of time for someone like E Rod to assert himself (more).

 

Look what Barnes have done to become more dominant or Richards finding his groove.

 

One thing I don't want happening is to overpay for someone in July, ie give up some young talent for a rental. I trust Bloom to do the right thing.

[Nick]

On mlb.com, I keep seeing the headline the Yankees on a quite run....5 straight wins.

 

Meanwhile, the Rays have won their last nine......well good for Yankees.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

All good points. There's still plenty of time for someone like E Rod to assert himself (more).

 

Look what Barnes have done to become more dominant or Richards finding his groove.

 

One thing I don't want happening is to overpay for someone in July, ie give up some young talent for a rental. I trust Bloom to do the right thing.

 

The last thing you have to worry about is Bloom trading prospects. If anything, he'll trade free-agent-to-be Barnes to another contender for two future closers making the minimum.

[mvp 78]

Maybe if ERod had been extended already he'd be pitching better?

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe if ERod had been extended already he'd be pitching better?

 

He might be simply suffering the effects of fatigue that we were all warned about.

[moonslav59]

He might be simply suffering the effects of fatigue that we were all warned about.

 

Let's hope that's all it is. There is also some evidence of long term COVID affects on the heart, nervous system, lungs and more.

[mvp 78]

He might be simply suffering the effects of fatigue that we were all warned about.

 

2 QS all damn year. I don't think he's wearing down. He gave up 4 runs in the 1st inning yesterday.

[moonslav59]

2 QS all damn year. I don't think he's wearing down. He gave up 4 runs in the 1st inning yesterday.

 

I don't think the fact that he allowed those 4 runs in the first inning not the 4th shows he can't be wore out or weakened by the COVID experience.

 

The is a lot of anecdotal evidence that people go from feeling strong to felling weak and tired off and on over long periods of time. I'm not sure anyone can ever know what is causing ERod to look "off." It could just be not pitching for a year plus. Maybe he just needs a little more time. Maybe the more he pitches, the more he gets tired and gets worse and worse. Maybe he'll be fine his next start going forward. maybe he needs a start or two off or even more.

 

With Houck out and Whitlock not stretched out enough, who could start?

 

Gossett has looked good, but he's not on the 40. Neither is Weber or Winckowski

 

[mvp 78]

I don't think the fact that he allowed those 4 runs in the first inning not the 4th shows he can't be wore out or weakened by the COVID experience.

 

The is a lot of anecdotal evidence that people go from feeling strong to felling weak and tired off and on over long periods of time. I'm not sure anyone can ever know what is causing ERod to look "off." It could just be not pitching for a year plus. Maybe he just needs a little more time. Maybe the more he pitches, the more he gets tired and gets worse and worse. Maybe he'll be fine his next start going forward. maybe he needs a start or two off or even more.

 

With Houck out and Whitlock not stretched out enough, who could start?

 

Gossett has looked good, but he's not on the 40. Neither is Weber or Winckowski

 

 

If he's that weak and tired, shouldn't he tell Cora that he can't go?!?

[Bellhorn04]

If he's that weak and tired, shouldn't he tell Cora that he can't go?!?

 

Obviously it's not that cut and dried.

[moonslav59]

If he's that weak and tired, shouldn't he tell Cora that he can't go?!?

 

Maybe it's not obvious to him, and he's a competitor that has probably pitched when tired or hurt before.

 

Yes, if he is feeling serious affects, he should say something, but a manager needs to notice things, too.

 

I think giving him 4 extra days rest due to the two days off, this week may help, but maybe he needs even longer. The best plan might be to let him pitch with 4 extra days rest then skip a start, and see how he looks afterwards.

 

Maybe he needs an IL stint, right now.

 

It's hard to know.

[mvp 78]

Obviously it's not that cut and dried.

 

What is cut and dried is that they need to figure out what is going on with him. He's not been very good.

[Bellhorn04]

What is cut and dried is that they need to figure out what is going on with him. He's not been very good.

 

His K/BB and FIP are both good.

 

I'm starting to wonder if some of these peripherals should be chucked out the window, though...