Since they lost last night, I need to tell you what I REALLY feel about the 2021 Sox!

[moonslav59]

Best tier 2 (not ace) Sox pitchers since I've been alive:

 

Hurst

Darwin

Boddicker

Beckett

Tudor

Viola

Saberhagen

Lowe

Buchholz

Lackey

Price

Porcello

 

No Schilling?

[mvp 78]

No Schilling?

 

I'd say he was above tier 2. He was 1b to Pedro's 1a in 2004. I hate the guy, but I'll give him a little credit.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As for 2004, Ortiz had the big bat in the postseason, especially in the crucial extra-inning games 4 and 5 vs the Yankees in the historic come from behind ALCS. Plus don't forget the bloody sock guy.

 

Don't forget Game 7 in NY, with maybe the most forgotten big hit of Ortiz' career: Top of 1st, Damon had just been gunned down at the plate after a Manny single, crowd delirious, Papi steps up... "It is high, it is far, it is... a silent stadium..."

[Maxbialystock]

No Schilling?

 

Ruth was probably the best Sox pitcher ever--except that he only had 3 prime years, 1915-17, ages 20-22. ERA's were 2.44, 1.75, and 2.01 and innings pitched were 217, 323, and 326. After that He started less and hit more in 1918 and 1919 when his ERA's were 2.97 and 4.50 and IP were 166 and 133.

 

Then 15 years with the Yankees.

[Maxbialystock]

I'd say he was above tier 2. He was 1b to Pedro's 1a in 2004. I hate the guy, but I'll give him a little credit.

 

Good pitcher, professional. And an idiot.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They were all pretty good.

 

Don't forget one 0.00 guy in the bullpen who was actually a reliever; he's also founder and client of the Fight Club.

[moonslav59]

To me, our best number 2's have been...

 

(Ace in parenthesis)

72 Marty Pattin (Siebert)

73-74 Bill Lee (Tiant)

75 Lee & Rick Wise (Tiant)

76-77 Wise & Fergie Jenkins (Tiant)

78 Tiant & Mike Torrez (Eckersley)

79 Torrez & Stanley (Eck)

80-82 Torrez & John Tudor (Eck)

83 Ojeda-Hurst-Tudor (Eck)

84-85 Hurst-Boyd-Ojeda (Clemens)

86 Hurst-Boyd (Clemens)

87-88 Hurst (Clemens)

89-90 Boddicker (Clemens)

91 Greg Harris (Clemens)

92 Viola (Clemens)

93 Viola-Darwin (Clemens)

94-96 Sele (Clemens)

97 Wakefield-Sele (Gordon)

98 Wake & Saberhagen (Pedro)

99 Saberhagen (Pedro)

00 ----- (Pedro)

01 Nomo (Pedro)

02 Lowe-Burkett-Wake (Pedro)

03 Lowe (Pedro)

04 Schilling (Pedro)

05 Wake (Wells)

06 Schilling-Lester (Beckett)

07 Schilling-DiceK (Beckett)

08 Beckett-Dice-K (Lester)

09 Beckett (Lester)

10 Buchholz (Lester)

11 Beckett (Lester)

12 ------- (------)

13 Lackey-Buch (Lester)

14 Lackey (Lester)

15 Buch (ERod)

16 Price-Wright (Porcello)

17 Pom-ERod (Sale)

18 Price-Porcello-Erod (Sale)

19 Porcello (ERod)

20 Eovaldi (-----)

21 Perez-Richards-ERod (Pivetta) PENDING

 

 

 

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Ruth was probably the best Sox pitcher ever--except that he only had 3 prime years, 1915-17, ages 20-22. ERA's were 2.44, 1.75, and 2.01 and innings pitched were 217, 323, and 326. After that He started less and hit more in 1918 and 1919 when his ERA's were 2.97 and 4.50 and IP were 166 and 133.

 

Then 15 years with the Yankees.

 

Pedro was better. Clemens, too.

 

2.52/ 0.978 WHIP Pedro (190 ERA+)

3.06/ 1.158 WHIP Clemens (144 ERA+)

2.19 /1.142 WHIP Ruth (125 ERA+)

 

Pedro from 1999-2003:

2.10/0.905 (228 ERA+)

 

Clemens from 1986 to 1994:

2.83/ 1.109 (153 ERA+)

 

Pedro dominated during the steroid era.

[moonslav59]

Closers in key Sox seasons:

 

67 John Wyatt

75 Dick Drago (Diego Segui)

78 Bob Stanley

86 Bob Stanley (Joe Sambito/Calvin Schiraldi)

03 B-H Kim

04 Foulke

07 Papelbon

13 Koji

18 Kimbrel

21 Barnes

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

I'm always glad to expose the myth that Eovaldi only had one good game in October of 2018.

 

2018 Postseason

...... Games, IP, ERA, WHIP:

Sale..... 5... 15.1...4.11...1.24

Porcello 5... 15.1...3.52...1.11

Price..... 6... 26.... 3.46...1.15

Eovaldi. 6... 22.1.. 1.61...0.81

 

Oh I know. We were just playing a silly game of "Which players can we retroactively remove and still win the World Series that year?"

[moonslav59]

Oh I know. We were just playing a silly game of "Which players can we retroactively remove and still win the World Series that year?"

 

I think we could have won without any one player and maybe even any 2 players and several groups of 3 of our better players.

 

YES, we were that good!

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Again, this pen is a top 10 pen.

 

They're not even a top 10 pen right now. You expect they will get better?

[Bellhorn04]

I think we could have won without any one player and maybe even any 2 players and several groups of 3 of our better players.

 

YES, we were that good!

 

 

I would submit that going back in the time machine and removing Price would be slightly risky. With him on the mound we won games 2 and 5 of the WS by scores of 4-2 and 5-1. Both of those games could have been lost with poor performances by whoever you would replace him with.

[Nick]

Maybe we're being too pessimistic.

 

We lead the majors in runs per game with basically 5 hitters....Verdugo, JD, Xander, Devers and Valdez.

[dgalehouse]

I would submit that going back in the time machine and removing Price would be slightly risky. With him on the mound we won games 2 and 5 of the WS by scores of 4-2 and 5-1. Both of those games could have been lost with poor performances by whoever you would replace him with.

 

When a machine is running so smoothly that it is close to perfection, it is not a good idea to start removing parts to see how many you can do without before the machine sputters to a stop. It's a temptation that should be resisted.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Closers in key Sox seasons:

 

67 John Wyatt

75 Dick Drago (Diego Segui)

78 Bob Stanley

86 Bob Stanley (Joe Sambito/Calvin Schiraldi)

03 B-H Kim

04 Foulke

07 Papelbon

13 Koji

18 Kimbrel

21 Barnes

 

 

 

I'm going to add Soup Campbell in '77. who was burned out forever more (and who I'm pretty sure was the first free agent signing in the first free agent offseason of all time).

 

Also, '03 -- the closer during the postseason was the now-forgotten Scott Williamson... mainly, because Grady Little forgot to use him to nail down the AL pennant in Game Seven in NY.

[Bellhorn04]

When a machine is running so smoothly that it is close to perfection, it is not a good idea to start removing parts to see how many you can do without before the machine sputters to a stop. It's a temptation that should be resisted.

 

Agreed, and nice analogy.

 

Fortunately no one here has a time machine at their disposal.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm going to add Soup Campbell in '77. who was burned out forever more (and who I'm pretty sure was the first free agent signing in the first free agent offseason of all time).

 

Also, '03 -- the closer during the postseason was the now-forgotten Scott Williamson... mainly, because Grady Little forgot to use him to nail down the AL pennant in Game Seven in NY.

 

Yes. And frankly I had forgotten that Williamson had 3 saves in that series.

 

And Timlin and Embree pitched 10 combined scoreless innings in that series.

 

And all 3 were ready to go in Game 7.

[moonslav59]

I'm going to add Soup Campbell in '77. who was burned out forever more (and who I'm pretty sure was the first free agent signing in the first free agent offseason of all time).

 

Also, '03 -- the closer during the postseason was the now-forgotten Scott Williamson... mainly, because Grady Little forgot to use him to nail down the AL pennant in Game Seven in NY.

 

I almost added Soup.

 

Tom Gordon, too. I think he went 30+ saves without a BS for a long stretch, one year.

Edited May 12, 2021 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

I almost added Soup.

 

Tom Gordon, too. I think he went 30+ saves with a BS for a long stretch, one year.

 

1998. He waited till the postseason to blow one. (Sorry Tom.)

[mvp 78]

Agreed, and nice analogy.

 

Fortunately no one here has a time machine at their disposal.

 

My posts would be way better if I did.

[mvp 78]

Yes. And frankly I had forgotten that Williamson had 3 saves in that series.

 

And Timlin and Embree pitched 10 combined scoreless innings in that series.

 

And all 3 were ready to go in Game 7.

 

Yeah, that pen turned things around at the end of that season and were rolling.

[moonslav59]

Some of our pen arms are putting up some decent numbers, recently. It's just that that the hits and homers they do let up are killing us.

 

OPS Against last 14 days:

.133 Barnes (BUTTAH!)

 

.393 Taylor (Surprise, but can we trust him going forward?)

 

.536 Valdez (Maybe we need to move him towards more high leverage)

.571 DHern (Seems like he's been doing worse than this)

.582 Ottavino (Same as DHern)

 

.985 Whitlock (Shine wearing off?)

1.000 Sawamura (I still like this guy.)

1.165 Brice (Nuff said already.)

1.394 Andriese (Finally, someone doing worse than Brice)

 

Last 7 days:

.000 Barnes (6 PA)

.476 Taylor 9

.536 Valdez 14

.667 Brice 10

.670 Ottavino 16

.688 Sawamura 16

.819 DHern 9

1.154 Whitlock 13

1.329 Andriese 17

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Well, I woke up today after they lost ANOTHER game last night. 3-2! 3-2?!?!? Are you kidding me? How could Franchy and the bullpen do this to me?

[moonslav59]

Well, I woke up today after they lost ANOTHER game last night. 3-2! 3-2?!?!? Are you kidding me? How could Franchy and the bullpen do this to me?

 

Like Ground Hog Day.

[mvp 78]

Like Ground Hog Day.

 

Franchy needs to learn a new pitch.

[moonslav59]

Franchy needs to learn a new pitch.

 

He just needs to be in AAA working out his issues. In the long run, he may end up earning another chance, but as of now, he has no business being on our 26 man roster.

 

If Santana isn't ready, call up Wilson or even Rosario as a defensive replacement- or better yet- both..

 

Scrap the 14th pitcher idea, at least until Kike or Arroyo return.

[moonslav59]

Speaking of Santana, Wilson & Duran. Both Wilson & Duran homered, yesterday.

 

Santana 1.164 in 3 games (1 HR in 10 ABs)

Wilson 1.067 in 6 games (2 HRs in 28 ABs))

Duran .962 in 7 games (3 HRs in 28 ABs)

[Bellhorn04]

Speaking of Santana, Wilson & Duran. Both Wilson & Duran homered, yesterday.

 

Santana 1.164 in 3 games (1 HR in 10 ABs)

Wilson 1.067 in 6 games (2 HRs in 28 ABs))

Duran .962 in 7 games (3 HRs in 28 ABs)

 

Nice to see with Duran. If he keeps that up...

[moonslav59]

Nice to see with Duran. If he keeps that up...

 

YES!

 

I think with him, it's more about his defense, but at this point, anything is better than Cordero.

 

My guess is we start with Santana and/or Wilson. I'd add both and DFA Brice & demote Cordero.

 

When Arroyo and Kike come back, some choices need to be made.