Since they lost last night, I need to tell you what I REALLY feel about the 2021 Sox!

[mvp 78]

So, he can play?

 

Can we trade Arroyo or Kike for a good pitcher? NOT LIKELY

 

Do we want to do that? IF POSSIBLE, HELL YEAH

 

Maybe we trade Santana rather than call him up. I WOULDN'T SEE HOW HE'D HAVE MUCH VALUE, BUT SURE

 

Maybe we trade Chavis and Arauz for a pitcher at the deadline. PUFF PUFF GIVE

 

There are all sorts of unrealistic ways to get Munoz on the roster. I'm for all of them. Yes, Munoz and Mazza would have been on my Opening Day roster.

[mvp 78]

But an enduring truth behind it. Winning in baseball takes a couple of squads more than a superstar. The very best starter only pitches 1 in 5 games--and these days rarely averages 7 innings per game--the best reliever 1 of 9 innings, the best hitter 1 of 9 positions in the batting order. And that's why spending a quarter of a billion dollars or more for one player, no matter how good, makes no sense to me.

 

Do the 04/07 Sox win without Manny's contract?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

But an enduring truth behind it. Winning in baseball takes a couple of squads more than a superstar. The very best starter only pitches 1 in 5 games--and these days rarely averages 7 innings per game--the best reliever 1 of 9 innings, the best hitter 1 of 9 positions in the batting order. And that's why spending a quarter of a billion dollars or more for one player, no matter how good, makes no sense to me.

 

In the case of Mike Trout; I wonder how much of an impact he has on Angels' home attendance? I'm sure it's a lot. But he's probably the exception to the rule. Can anyone here think of another player who impacts home attendance significantly?

Heck, I'm even thinking that Trout may have an impact on attendance when the Angels are on the road. But, then, he is the greatest everyday player currently playing baseball.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

In the case of Mike Trout; I wonder how much of an impact he has on Angels' home attendance? I'm sure it's a lot. But he's probably the exception to the rule. Can anyone here think of another player who impacts home attendance significantly?

Heck, I'm even thinking that Trout may have an impact on attendance when the Angels are on the road. But, then, he is the greatest everyday player currently playing baseball.

 

Btw, the SOX will have the pleasure(probably not the right word) of facing the 'great one' this weekend.

[mvp 78]

In the case of Mike Trout; I wonder how much of an impact he has on Angels' home attendance? I'm sure it's a lot. But he's probably the exception to the rule. Can anyone here think of another player who impacts home attendance significantly?

Heck, I'm even thinking that Trout may have an impact on attendance when the Angels are on the road. But, then, he is the greatest everyday player currently playing baseball.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ANA/attend.shtml

 

Not much of any impact. That team has had strong attendance since the rally monkey days.

[moonslav59]

Do the 04/07 Sox win without Manny's contract?

 

i doubt it.

 

We'd have to have spent it very wisely.

 

"No Manny, No Rings" was one of the longest running threads on "that other site" many years back- started by me.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Do the 04/07 Sox win without Manny's contract?

 

 

I'm glad we didn't have to find out. Imo, Manny was the best RH hitter the SOX ever had. So many of the SOX great hitters batted from the left side. Don't let the LF wall fool you; Fenway is a LH hitter's ballpark.

[moonslav59]

I'm glad we didn't have to find out. Imo, Manny was the best RH hitter the SOX ever had. So many of the SOX great hitters batted from the left side. Don't let the LF wall fool you; Fenway is a LH hitter's ballpark.

 

Agreed.

 

I loved watching Manny hit.

 

His approach was second to none.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I'm glad we didn't have to find out. Imo, Manny was the best RH hitter the SOX ever had. So many of the SOX great hitters batted from the left side. Don't let the LF wall fool you; Fenway is a LH hitter's ballpark.

 

Note: Babe Ruth hadn't become a full-time outfielder until he became a Yankem. He was a great pitcher for the SOX.

Edited May 11, 2021 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Agreed.

 

I loved watching Manny hit.

 

His approach was second to none.

 

Some of the crap he and Pedro pulled was hilarious.

[mvp 78]

i doubt it.

 

We'd have to have spent it very wisely.

 

"No Manny, No Rings" was one of the longest running threads on "that other site" many years back- started by me.

 

Well, then I agree.

[mvp 78]

I'm glad we didn't have to find out. Imo, Manny was the best RH hitter the SOX ever had. So many of the SOX great hitters batted from the left side. Don't let the LF wall fool you; Fenway is a LH hitter's ballpark.

 

I lived in LA from 07-10 and would overhear people at work say things like "Manny and Ortiz are this generation's Ruth and Gherig."

[mvp 78]

Agreed.

 

I loved watching Manny hit.

 

His approach was second to none.

 

I loved everything about Manny. He made baseball fun.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We could have won without Eovaldi, since the only game of the WS he helped in, we lost.

 

We're pretty much down to Pearce, and Beni for that catch.

 

I'm always glad to expose the myth that Eovaldi only had one good game in October of 2018.

 

2018 Postseason

...... Games, IP, ERA, WHIP:

Sale..... 5... 15.1...4.11...1.24

Porcello 5... 15.1...3.52...1.11

Price..... 6... 26.... 3.46...1.15

Eovaldi. 6... 22.1.. 1.61...0.81

Edited May 11, 2021 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Agreed.

 

I loved watching Manny hit.

 

His approach was second to none.

 

Ya know Moon, I seriously doubt we'll ever see a 3 and 4 hitter in any team's line-up that will touch Manny and David. And in the history of baseball, imho, one would have to go as far back as Ruth and Gehrig.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I lived in LA from 07-10 and would overhear people at work say things like "Manny and Ortiz are this generation's Ruth and Gherig."

 

No doubt. I just posted that before reading your post.

[Maxbialystock]

In the case of Mike Trout; I wonder how much of an impact he has on Angels' home attendance? I'm sure it's a lot. But he's probably the exception to the rule. Can anyone here think of another player who impacts home attendance significantly?

Heck, I'm even thinking that Trout may have an impact on attendance when the Angels are on the road. But, then, he is the greatest everyday player currently playing baseball.

 

Yes--that shmuck with the Phillies, Bryce Harper. Attendance jumped when he came on the scene.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Yes--that shmuck with the Phillies, Bryce Harper. Attendance jumped when he came on the scene.

 

Very good. I had forgotten about him; and, yes, he is a shmuck.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I guess we can all agree that as long-time SOX fans we may not have had a team of much great pitching, but we sure can't complain about the hitters who came thru here.

[moonslav59]

I guess we can all agree that as long-time SOX fans we may not have had a team of much great pitching, but we sure can't complain about the hitters who came thru here.

 

True nuff, and it's not surprising the only times we won or came real close, was when we had a great pitcher or two:

 

Lonborg

Tiant (Lee & Wise)

Clemens (Hurst & Boyd)

Pedro (Schilling)

Beckett (Schilling & Dice-K)

Lester (Lackey & Buch)

Sale (Price, Porcello & ERod)

 

I left out some great RP'ers.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ya know Moon, I seriously doubt we'll ever see a 3 and 4 hitter in any team's line-up that will touch Manny and David. And in the history of baseball, imho, one would have to go as far back as Ruth and Gehrig.

 

...hot dogs and beer and milk and cookies vs. protein shakes and women's fertility drugs

[moonslav59]

Ya know Moon, I seriously doubt we'll ever see a 3 and 4 hitter in any team's line-up that will touch Manny and David. And in the history of baseball, imho, one would have to go as far back as Ruth and Gehrig.

 

Those two were tops.

 

I always wondered how Manny's numbers would have been had Papi been behind him.

[notin]

6-4 against the O's.

 

6-1 in the last 7...

[Maxbialystock]

Do the 04/07 Sox win without Manny's contract?

 

His contract, $147M for 8 seasons, was a bargain, "Manny being Manny" notwithstanding.

 

Definitely a big deal in 2004, less so in 2007. The 2004 team led MLB in scoring, but the pitching was 8th in ERA. In 2007, however, the team scoring was 3d in MLG and the Sox team ERA was 2d. Indeed, of the four WS-winning seasons (2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018), the 2007 team had the best pitching. Last time I checked, Manny Ramirez didn't throw a single pitch in the entire 2007 season and postseason.

 

Plus 2007 was a down year for Manny in the regular season. The Sox hitting stars were David Ortiz and Mike Lowell. In the postseason Manny hit the game-winning dinger in game 2 vs. the Angels, but the Sox pitching held the Angels to 4 runs in 3 games. In the 8 wins against the Guardians and and Rockies, Manny's hitting wasn't a factor either because the winning margins were huge or because Manny didn't contribute in the two close games, 2-1 and 4-3, against Colorado.

 

As for 2004, Ortiz had the big bat in the postseason, especially in the crucial extra-inning games 4 and 5 vs the Yankees in the historic come from behind ALCS. Plus don't forget the bloody sock guy.

[mvp 78]

I'm always glad to expose the myth that Eovaldi only had one good game in October of 2018.

 

2018 Postseason

...... Games, IP, ERA, WHIP:

Sale..... 5... 15.1...4.11...1.24

Porcello 5... 15.1...3.52...1.11

Price..... 6... 26.... 3.46...1.15

Eovaldi. 6... 22.1.. 1.61...0.81

 

They were all pretty good.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

True nuff, and it's not surprising the only times we won or came real close, was when we had a great pitcher or two:

 

Lonborg

Tiant (Lee & Wise)

Clemens (Hurst & Boyd)

Pedro (Schilling)

Beckett (Schilling & Dice-K)

Lester (Lackey & Buch)

Sale (Price, Porcello & ERod)

 

I left out some great RP'ers.

 

Obviously, we recognize Pedro as a great pitcher, but what should also be remembered was that Pedro was the driving force that convinced the SOX FO to sign Ortiz.

[mvp 78]

No doubt. I just posted that before reading your post.

 

They should have gone back to back in 07/08 and kept Manny. Just needed to figure out how to get through to him.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

6-1 in the last 7...

 

0-1 in the last one.

[moonslav59]

They should have gone back to back in 07/08 and kept Manny. Just needed to figure out how to get through to him.

 

Well, he did drop off pretty quickly and missed a lot of games after we traded him.

 

Then, the whole PED thingy.

[mvp 78]

True nuff, and it's not surprising the only times we won or came real close, was when we had a great pitcher or two:

 

Lonborg

Tiant (Lee & Wise)

Clemens (Hurst & Boyd)

Pedro (Schilling)

Beckett (Schilling & Dice-K)

Lester (Lackey & Buch)

Sale (Price, Porcello & ERod)

 

I left out some great RP'ers.

 

Best tier 2 (not ace) Sox pitchers since I've been alive:

 

Hurst

Darwin

Boddicker

Beckett

Tudor

Viola

Saberhagen

Lowe

Buchholz

Lackey

Price

Porcello