A Realistic View at 2021: Part II

[moonslav59]

If we got 2 Scherzers, Vegas makes us the fav and is Not even close.

 

You are overrating LAD way too much. For instance I see SFG stronger right now.

 

Both SFG and SDP and LAD were better before the trades.

[Bellhorn04]

Both SFG and SDP and LAD were better before the trades.

 

Yeah, but you only play one of those teams if you make it to the World Series...

[moonslav59]

Yeah, but you only play one of those teams if you make it to the World Series...

 

Yes, and it's no sure thing we get past the CWS and Astros with Scherzer.

 

We'd need a lot of other things to go right- like Sale being Sale, Schwarber getting healthy and being able to play 1B and Pivetta improving.

[iortiz]

Both SFG and SDP and LAD were better before the trades.

 

Nope. They have flaws too, and 2 Scherzers by definition boost your team by 12 WAR at very least.

 

The same was said in 2018 and look how it ended up.

[iortiz]

Yes, and it's no sure thing we get past the CWS and Astros with Scherzer.

 

We'd need a lot of other things to go right- like Sale being Sale, Schwarber getting healthy and being able to play 1B and Pivetta improving.

 

Nothing is sure. You are the one who is making a lot of assumptions and conjectures. You don’t know nothing for sure.

 

We didn’t need a lot of things to go right. We actually just needed an elite SP and 1B. That’s it.

[Bellhorn04]

Nope. They have flaws too, and 2 Scherzers by definition boost your team by 12 WAR at very least.

 

Divided by 3 when you have the player for 2 months.

[iortiz]

Divided by 3 when you have the player for 2 months.

 

It’s not the point. The point is that you will play 2 months and likely the POs with two 6 WAR player profiles instead of 2 replacement players —Perez and Richards.

 

It is a huge difference.

 

Said that nothing is for sure. Moon is making up a lot of assumptions and conjectures. I can make up a lot of assumptions and conjectures too. That field is a worthless debate.

[Bellhorn04]

It’s not the point. The point is that you will play 2 months and likely the POs with two 6 WAR player profiles instead of 2 replacement players —Perez and Richards.

 

It is a huge difference.

 

Said that nothing is for sure. Moon is making up a lot of assumptions and conjectures. I can make up a lot of assumptions and conjectures too. That field is a worthless debate.

 

Agreed.

[Maxbialystock]

It’s not the point. The point is that you will play 2 months and likely the POs with two 6 WAR player profiles instead of 2 replacement players —Perez and Richards.

 

It is a huge difference.

 

Said that nothing is for sure. Moon is making up a lot of assumptions and conjectures. I can make up a lot of assumptions and conjectures too. That field is a worthless debate.

 

While I agree getting two Scherzer's--combined with Eovaldi, and the return of Sale--would be huge, I'm less sure doing so was feasible. Or, if it was, whether the cost was sustainable.

 

I too am disappointed with not getting a viable starter, but also trust Bloom and, in case you've forgotten, John Henry, easily the best Sox owner in its 121 year history.

[iortiz]

While I agree getting two Scherzer's--combined with Eovaldi, and the return of Sale--would be huge, I'm less sure doing so was feasible. Or, if it was, whether the cost was sustainable.

 

I too am disappointed with not getting a viable starter, but also trust Bloom and, in case you've forgotten, John Henry, easily the best Sox owner in its 121 year history.

Was it feasible? That’s another kind of debate. I’m not disputing that.

 

Was it feasible? We don’t know or at least I don’t know. What I know based on reports is that JH and Bloom at least tried to land Scherzer and did their diligence in other top pitchers like Berrios. My guess? Teams were asking too much for Scherzer and Berrios or we couldn’t outbid LAD and TOR for these options.

 

We will never know with 100% of certainty, but I feel and understand the frustration from fans because on paper we were 2 pieces away to address our major needs.

 

We landed Schwarber who will likely play 1B, but again we don’t know what the plan is. Sale is likely going to address our rotation issue. Maybe that was the plan. Will it work out? IDK. Hopefully he is at least 80% vintage Sale otherwise will be tough to win the division.

[Key2Delock]

Kyle Schwarber has played ONE game at first base during his seven seasons in Major League Baseball and that was in 2017. He’s an outfielder and DH, just like J. D. Martinez. Unless they trade for a first basemen between now and the end of this month, for the rest of this season, it’ll likely be Bobby Dalbec or Marwin Gonzalez and little offensive production at first for the Red Sox.

 

Liverpool's Virgil van Dijk is 6'4''. Maybe he could play first.

[Bellhorn04]

Kyle Schwarber has played ONE game at first base during his seven seasons in Major League Baseball and that was in 2017. He’s an outfielder and DH, just like J. D. Martinez. Unless they trade for a first basemen between now and the end of this month, for the rest of this season, it’ll likely be Bobby Dalbec or Marwin Gonzalez and little offensive production at first for the Red Sox.

 

Liverpool's Virgil van Dijk is 6'4''. Maybe he could play first.

 

Nope. Schwarber will be playing first.

[Hugh2]

Kyle Schwarber has played ONE game at first base during his seven seasons in Major League Baseball and that was in 2017. He’s an outfielder and DH, just like J. D. Martinez. Unless they trade for a first basemen between now and the end of this month, for the rest of this season, it’ll likely be Bobby Dalbec or Marwin Gonzalez and little offensive production at first for the Red Sox.

 

Liverpool's Virgil van Dijk is 6'4''. Maybe he could play first.

 

This was 100% my position recently, even after they traded for Schwarber right up until an hour after the trading deadline. There's no way the Sox are living with Dalbec at first, and there's no way they're burning two roster spots on a Franchy/Dalbec platoon. Schwarber has even openly said he's willing to play 1B, that tells me there have been internal discussions with him about playing 1B.

 

Kyle Schwarber is your new 1B, the question is do they start him right away or ease him in there?

[Bellhorn04]

This was 100% my position recently, even after they traded for Schwarber right up until an hour after the trading deadline. There's no way the Sox are living with Dalbec at first, and there's no way they're burning two roster spots on a Franchy/Dalbec platoon. Schwarber has even openly said he's willing to play 1B, that tells me there have been internal discussions with him about playing 1B.

 

Kyle Schwarber is your new 1B, the question is do they start him right away or ease him in there?

 

Not much time for easing, especially with his health status.

[Hugh2]

Not much time for easing, especially with his health status.

 

I'm just saying, if his first game in a Sox uniform is LF/DH, I wouldn't rule him being our starting 1B by year's end. I just don't see who else it can be right now if the team wants to make a serious run.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm just saying, if his first game in a Sox uniform is LF/DH, I wouldn't rule him being our starting 1B by year's end. I just don't see who else it can be right now if the team wants to make a serious run.

 

I think he starts at first right away. Sink or swim, buddy.

[Hugh2]

I think he starts at first right away. Sink or swim, buddy.

 

I do too.

[moonslav59]

Schwarber is going to play 1B, when he comes off the IL. Dalbec will be on the bench or AAA. I think that's pretty certain. (I'm not sure about the mutual option for 2022, but I thought the team had first control for 2022.)

 

Most of us felt we should not "count on Sale" giving us anything, but now it looks like he's our best hope, along with Schwarber and Houck. That's not such a horrible thing, since we know more about his health and velocity, now than we did back in the winter and spring.

 

I know many are very disappointed in the lack of moves made at the deadline, but I am certain Bloom looked under every rock. I, for one, am glad he did not overpay, and since every other major contender got better, we'd have had to have done better than them to improve our odds. That would have meant doing much much more and emptying or nearly emptying our farm- both in quality and quantity.

 

Have we learned nothing from 2019 and 2020?

 

We were extremely lucky several low-drafted picks by DD have risen quickly in the ranks. We are extremely lucky we got Bloom, and he was able to greatly improve the farm and young players via the Betts trade, Whitlock steal and other moves. The "cliff" turned out to be very short-lived. Posters like Jacko were talking 4 or 5 year rebuilding plans. Bloom was able to work miracles, and people are blasting him for not abandoning the rebuild plan to blow it all up and go all in on a highly doubtful chance we might have pulled it off, this year. Had we gone for broke and got Scherzer, the Dodgers would have gotten Berrios, and we'd have gained very little ground.

 

I still like our chances. I think this is just a funk we are going through, but I do realize maybe we are being exposed, as we speak, and we were never as good as these overachievers led us to believe they were or could be upon the return of Sale.

 

We played a tough game, last night. We fought to the last out and pitch. Maybe we were never as good as we looked, at times, this year, but we are also not this bad, now. The Yanks still suck. Rizzo is all glitz. They traded a big chunk of their future for a pipe dream. I'm actually happy they did- same with the Jays. We're still better than both.

 

On paper, the Rays, Astros and White Sox may look better, and having to win a WC game seems like a huge letdown, but lets give this season some perspective. We still have a good shot to win the division and even to have the best AL record. The Rays lost Glasnow for the season and have more black holes in their line-up than we do. They also don't have 4 premier hitters, like we now do. The Astros tried to improve their pen, but the jury is out on those moves. The CWS seem to struggle vs good teams and have none in their division.

 

Once Sale and Schwarber join the 26 man roster, Sawamura and Arroyo return, and we lose some dead weight, we should be much better than we have looked over the last week and month.

 

I'm staying positive, this year, after being one of the first to ditch 2019's team. Our players have shown to be true fighters with a ton of grit. They are worthy of our support. Any true Sox fan should give it to them.

[moonslav59]

I do too.

 

Nothing else makes sense and involves too many defensive switcheroos.

[a700hitter]

I think he starts at first right away. Sink or swim, buddy.

I haven’t heard any rumors with official sources that they will be moving him to 1B. I think they will be lucky if they get him back at all before September. And 1B is not a good place to put a guy with a cranky hammy. He could pop that on his first stretch to get a throw.

[moonslav59]

If all goes as planned, we will be adding:

 

Sale

Schwarber

Houck

Sawamura

Arroyo

Marwin

DHern

 

That's a hell of an improvement over

 

Richards

Dalbec

Perez

Rios

Arauz

Cordero

Robles/Davis/Valdez

 

Can we all let this sink in?

 

1. Kike CF (where he belongs)

2. Devers 3B (solid all around)

3. JD DH (needs to get back on track)

4. Bogaerts (needs some more rest for that wrist)

5. Schwarber 1B (big bat help)

6. Renfroe RF (need some more O from him)

7. Verdugo LF (showing signs)

8. Arroyo 2B (did we forget how well he was doing?)

9. Vaz C (tired)

Bench:

Plawecki

Duran

Dalbec

 

S1 Eovaldi

S2 Sale

S3 ERod

S4 Houck

S5 Pivetta

 

CL Barnes

R2 Ottavino

R3 Whitlock

R4 Taylor

R5 DHern

R6 Sawamura

R7 Robles

R8 Davis/Valdez

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by moonslav59

[a700hitter]

Nothing else makes sense and involves too many defensive switcheroos.

Schwarber to LF (his natural position), Verdugo to CF (he has had a lot of time in CF), Hernandez 2B (his natural position), Marwin, Dalbec, Arroyo and the kitchen sink at 1B.

[Hugh2]

I haven’t heard any rumors with official sources that they will be moving him to 1B. I think they will be lucky if they get him back at all before September. And 1B is not a good place to put a guy with a cranky hammy. He could pop that on his first stretch to get a throw.

 

So, 1B is not good for the hamstring but running around in the outfield is? I don't think so.

[Hugh2]

Schwarber to LF (his natural position), Verdugo to CF (he has had a lot of time in CF), Hernandez 2B (his natural position), Marwin, Dalbec, Arroyo and the kitchen sink at 1B.

 

This was exactly what I thought was going to happen when they traded for Schwarber, then they didn't pick up a 1B. The Sox have the worse production at 1B in the MLB, that's your black hole offensively and defensively. Sox got Schwarber for one B evel prospect, they're throwing him at 1B. It's happening.

[moonslav59]

Schwarber to LF (his natural position), Verdugo to CF (he has had a lot of time in CF), Hernandez 2B (his natural position), Marwin, Dalbec, Arroyo and the kitchen sink at 1B.

 

Verdugo is better in LF.

Kike is better in CF

Arroyo is equal to Kike at 2B.

Schwarber cannot be much worse, defensively, than Dalbec has been at 1B, and he can pull a hammy in LF, too.

[mvp 78]

Verdugo is better in LF.

Kike is better in CF

Arroyo is equal to Kike at 2B.

Schwarber cannot be much worse, defensively, than Dalbec has been at 1B, and he can pull a hammy in LF, too.

 

^^^

[Bellhorn04]

Schwarber cannot be much worse, defensively, than Dalbec has been at 1B, and he can pull a hammy in LF, too.

 

Just tell him to go easy on the stretches.

 

It would be a tad embarrassing if he does the same thing Arroyo did his first game.

[a700hitter]

Verdugo is better in LF.

Kike is better in CF

Arroyo is equal to Kike at 2B.

Schwarber cannot be much worse, defensively, than Dalbec has been at 1B, and he can pull a hammy in LF, too.

We will have to see what they do, but putting a guy at 1B with no experience can cost your IF a lot of errors. And you can also pull a hammy getting out of bed, but the stretch at 1B is something that has often caused Hamstrings to pop. It is a maneuver that cannot be avoided if you are playing that position.

[a700hitter]

Just tell him to go easy on the stretches.

 

It would be a tad embarrassing if he does the same thing Arroyo did his first game.

Is that your plan… go easy on the stretch’s? Should he bend down for low throws?

[notin]

Is that your plan… go easy on the stretch’s? Should he bend down for low throws?

 

Just let em go..

 

This team can afford runners in scoring position more than they can afford more infield injuries..