Batting Lineup

[mvp 78]

To be fair, Devers is an unknown defensive commodity at first base, and might even be better than Casas given the opportunity. After all, Casas was moved off 3b for a reason, too...

 

But we know what Casas is because people have actually seen him play 1b, unlike Devers. Maybe Devers is a GG LF and we just don't know it yet.

[notin]

But we know what Casas is because people have actually seen him play 1b, unlike Devers. Maybe Devers is a GG LF and we just don't know it yet.

 

Maybe, although history has taught us many poor defensive 3B can move to 1B and become excellent defensive players. Martk Teixeira and Jeff Bagwell, for example. Youkilis was not a poor defender at 3B, but was certainly an elite one at 1B.

 

The number of weak defending third basemen who move the the OF and become Gold Glove outfielders is a lot more limited. Anyone besides Alex Gordon?

 

If you look around MLB, most first basemen fall into at least one of three categories - left-handed, very tall, or washed out at another position. The rest of them fall into a category known as "Joey Votto"...

[moonslav59]

But we know what Casas is because people have actually seen him play 1b, unlike Devers. Maybe Devers is a GG LF and we just don't know it yet.

 

Casas has played 96 games at 1B in the minors (9 at 3B). That's not a lot to know anything.

 

According to soxprospects.com, he's still learning and not yet a plus defender at 1B.

 

Field: Confident picking out throws in the dirt. Moves well enough for first base. Potential above-average defender there. Drafted as a third baseman but footwork was choppy, lacked range, and looked awkward fielding the ball there given his size.

[mvp 78]

Casas has played 96 games at 1B in the minors (9 at 3B). That's not a lot to know anything.

 

According to soxprospects.com, he's still learning and not yet a plus defender at 1B.

 

Field: Confident picking out throws in the dirt. Moves well enough for first base. Potential above-average defender there. Drafted as a third baseman but footwork was choppy, lacked range, and looked awkward fielding the ball there given his size.

 

People who have seen him recently have stated that he's the best in the org.

 

96 games at 1b is a lot more than Devers has there.

[moonslav59]

I say, if Devers is best suited for 1B, you move him there. (I'm not saying that time is now, but I can see how many feel he needs to not play 3B anymore.)

 

If Casas proves he can play 1B well enough or better than Devers, and he's ready to be called up (maybe late 2021 at the earliest), then you deal with the log jam at that time.

 

We also have to factor in Dalbec's abilities at 3B. If he's just barely better than Devers, what's the use? I don't want Devers learning 1B "on the job" at the big league level, and he's too good of a hitter to send down to AAA or the Alt site to learn 1B.

 

I had hoped this would be the year Devers would show he can be at least an average 3Bman on defense. I also figured this being a bridge year and all, what's to lose. He's gotten off to a bad start, and I felt like he deserved a long look, but even I am second guessing that position.

[mvp 78]

I say, if Devers is best suited for 1B, you move him there. (I'm not saying that time is now, but I can see how many feel he needs to not play 3B anymore.)

 

If Casas proves he can play 1B well enough or better than Devers, and he's ready to be called up (maybe late 2021 at the earliest), then you deal with the log jam at that time.

 

We also have to factor in Dalbec's abilities at 3B. If he's just barely better than Devers, what's the use? I don't want Devers learning 1B "on the job" at the big league level, and he's too good of a hitter to send down to AAA or the Alt site to learn 1B.

 

I had hoped this would be the year Devers would show he can be at least an average 3Bman on defense. I also figured this being a bridge year and all, what's to lose. He's gotten off to a bad start, and I felt like he deserved a long look, but even I am second guessing that position.

 

They aren't moving Devers to 1B midseason. It would be a decision they make in November.

[moonslav59]

People who have seen him recently have stated that he's the best in the org.

 

96 games at 1b is a lot more than Devers has there.

 

96 of what, though?

 

I'm not saying he's bad, but the right up sounds a lot like what we'd probably hear about Devers at 3B.

 

The major problem with Devers is his throwing. As much as people don't want to believe it or agree, the guy is quick and has shown plus range for very long stretches. He'd likely have VERY plus range at 1B. He seems to have a good "glove," but scooping balls is different from fielding 1B, so your point is valid.

 

Another thing is how far away does Sox management think Casas is? We might think June or July or a September call-up, but maybe the view him as September 2022. If that's the case, then Devers at 1B isn't stopping Casas from being promoted. Devers is a FA after 2023. We might be talking just one year log jam.

[moonslav59]

They aren't moving Devers to 1B midseason. It would be a decision they make in November.

 

That's what I've thought all along. There was no evidence they have worked Devers out at 1B, at all.

 

They did move Bogey to 3B after just 10 games at 3B in AAA, but that was AAA, not the bigs.

 

In theory, since Devers usually sucks at the plate in April, they could send him to the Alt site for a crash course at 1B, but that is not a realistic plan.

 

We'll see how he does, this year and decide when winter comes.

 

One possible scenario: what if we are in the race for a WC,a nd Devers is just killing us at 3B but hitting very well? Do we risk not making the playoffs by continuing playing him at 3B?

 

Do we DH him and let JD play LF?

 

If we can't or won't move him to 1B, mid season (and I'm not saying we should), what other options do we have for the scenario I mentioned?

[mvp 78]

96 of what, though?

 

I'm not saying he's bad, but the right up sounds a lot like what we'd probably hear about Devers at 3B.

 

The major problem with Devers is his throwing. As much as people don't want to believe it or agree, the guy is quick and has shown plus range for very long stretches. He'd likely have VERY plus range at 1B. He seems to have a good "glove," but scooping balls is different from fielding 1B, so your point is valid.

 

Another thing is how far away does Sox management think Casas is? We might think June or July or a September call-up, but maybe the view him as September 2022. If that's the case, then Devers at 1B isn't stopping Casas from being promoted. Devers is a FA after 2023. We might be talking just one year log jam.

 

96 games plus all of the practice time since 2018. Compared to Devers who hasn't taken a professional grounder at 1B.

[mvp 78]

That's what I've thought all along. There was no evidence they have worked Devers out at 1B, at all.

 

They did move Bogey to 3B after just 10 games at 3B in AAA, but that was AAA, not the bigs.

 

In theory, since Devers usually sucks at the plate in April, they could send him to the Alt site for a crash course at 1B, but that is not a realistic plan.

 

We'll see how he does, this year and decide when winter comes.

 

One possible scenario: what if we are in the race for a WC,a nd Devers is just killing us at 3B but hitting very well? Do we risk not making the playoffs by continuing playing him at 3B?

 

Do we DH him and let JD play LF?

 

If we can't or won't move him to 1B, mid season (and I'm not saying we should), what other options do we have for the scenario I mentioned?

 

In that scenario, JD is in LF and Devers is DH.

[moonslav59]

96 games plus all of the practice time since 2018. Compared to Devers who hasn't taken a professional grounder at 1B.

 

I'm really not sure how much weight that holds, especially, if Casas was deemed not ML ready on defense. (We don't know this, but my guess is, he is not ready defensively.)

 

I do know, the moved Bogey to 3B after 10 games in AAA at 3B.

 

It might not take as long as we think to get Dvers ready to play 1B, but I agree, doing it during a season, at the ML level is highly problematic and extremely unlikely.

[moonslav59]

In that scenario, JD is in LF and Devers is DH.

 

I'd hate to put JD at a higher risk of injury, but I do think the scenario I mentioned could happen.

[oldtimer]

I'm really not sure how much weight that holds, especially, if Casas was deemed not ML ready on defense. (We don't know this, but my guess is, he is not ready defensively.)

 

I do know, the moved Bogey to 3B after 10 games in AAA at 3B.

 

It might not take as long as we think to get Dvers ready to play 1B, but I agree, doing it during a season, at the ML level is highly problematic and extremely unlikely.

 

Moving Bogey rom short during the season is also unlikely. That may happen someday but not during this season.

[Sox75]

 

This run can not be sustained by 3 guys...

 

Things WILL easily turn bad if the rest don't heat up soon.

[notin]

People who have seen him recently have stated that he's the best in the org.

 

96 games at 1b is a lot more than Devers has there.

 

Also more than Kevin Youkilis had prior to 2006...

[mvp 78]

Also more than Kevin Youkilis had prior to 2006...

 

Did Youk switch during the year or over the offseason?

[notin]

Did Youk switch during the year or over the offseason?

 

He did play 9 games there in 2005, where he also played 2 games at 2B (but only 7 innings total) and 24 at third. Thinking mid-season change myself...

[mvp 78]

He did play 9 games there in 2005, where he also played 2 games at 2B (but only 7 innings total) and 24 at third. Thinking mid-season change myself...

 

Devers hasn't played ANY games aside from 3b. In 2005, Youkilis spent time in PAWTUCKET playing 1B. Are people suggesting we sent Devers to Worcester to work out at 1B? Or do people want to make this switch at the MLB level? If Devers is going to move off position, it's not going to be in April in Boston. The change would most likely come this offseason.

[notin]

Devers hasn't played ANY games aside from 3b. In 2005, Youkilis spent time in PAWTUCKET playing 1B. Are people suggesting we sent Devers to Worcester to work out at 1B? Or do people want to make this switch at the MLB level? If Devers is going to move off position, it's not going to be in April in Boston. The change would most likely come this offseason.

 

It most likely would, but if they put him at 1B during the season, they wouldn't be breaking new ground. Mark Teixeira, for example, played 15 games at 3B and the Rangers just gave up on him and moved him to 1B without ever sending him down to learn the new position. They also stuck him in the OF that same year without ever sending him down, but they gave up on that, too...

[notin]

Devers hasn't played ANY games aside from 3b. In 2005, Youkilis spent time in PAWTUCKET playing 1B. Are people suggesting we sent Devers to Worcester to work out at 1B? Or do people want to make this switch at the MLB level? If Devers is going to move off position, it's not going to be in April in Boston. The change would most likely come this offseason.

 

And let's get this straight - Youkilis played 16 games at 1B in Pawtucket in 2005. Plus a couple games there in Pawtucket in 2004 and 40 games in A ball at 1B. My statement was he played less games than Casas' total of 96 at 1B prior to 2006. And he did. He played 67 games at 1B prior to 2006, and they were spread out over 4 seasons in 3 different leagues and while he played a lot of other positions.

 

As this season was never really an attempt to make the postseason anyway, due primarily to Sale being out, the Sox actually could try to switch Devers midseason and it won't be why they miss the playoffs. But most likely, they give him one more full year to see if he can handle the hot corner before making any decisions...

[moonslav59]

Devers hasn't played ANY games aside from 3b. In 2005, Youkilis spent time in PAWTUCKET playing 1B. Are people suggesting we sent Devers to Worcester to work out at 1B? Or do people want to make this switch at the MLB level? If Devers is going to move off position, it's not going to be in April in Boston. The change would most likely come this offseason.

 

Agreed, but what if Devers ends up sucking so much, he just can't be left at 3B. The choice is, assuming he's hitting well enough to be an essential part of our line-up, 1B or DH (moving JD to corner OF)

 

Note: I am not for moving Devers midseason and I highly doubt the Sox are even considering it.

 

I do think he can become a fine 1Bman in a pretty short period of time.

[notin]

Agreed, but what if Devers ends up sucking so much, he just can't be left at 3B. The choice is, assuming he's hitting well enough to be an essential part of our line-up, 1B or DH (moving JD to corner OF)

 

Note: I am not for moving Devers midseason and I highly doubt the Sox are even considering it.

 

I do think he can become a fine 1Bman in a pretty short period of time.

 

Zero chance he goes directly to DH, and there are far too many reasons for that to not happen.

 

If he continues to struggle defensively at 3B, flip him with Dalbec.

 

I actually it is a good idea to do this change mid-season because, once you have decided Devers cannot handle the position, it would be good to see if you actually like Dalbec there. No point in going through this whole exercise again next season, just with different names. However, just because I think it is a good idea doesn't mean I think it will happen (and really, doesn't even mean it is actually a good idea)...

[moonslav59]

Zero chance he goes directly to DH, and there are far too many reasons for that to not happen.

 

If he continues to struggle defensively at 3B, flip him with Dalbec.

 

I actually it is a good idea to do this change mid-season because, once you have decided Devers cannot handle the position, it would be good to see if you actually like Dalbec there. No point in going through this whole exercise again next season, just with different names. However, just because I think it is a good idea doesn't mean I think it will happen (and really, doesn't even mean it is actually a good idea)...

 

This is kind of what I was getting at, and you put it in words very well.

 

I'm not expecting Dever to be that awful on defense, going forward, and Dalbec should play some at 3B when Devers is resting, but not likely enough to get a good read.

 

If we are out of it in July or August, then making a midseason change might make more sense.

[Kimmi]

Bill Koch

@billkoch25

·

8h

Rafael Devers as a cartoon character would be a puppy. Sure, he'll pee on the carpet a couple of times and chew on your slippers. But the good he brings to your day far, far outweighs the minor inconveniences.

 

Just let him be. He's special. #RedSox

 

^^This.

[moonslav59]

Indeed!

[Bellhorn04]

Bill Koch

@billkoch25

·

8h

Rafael Devers as a cartoon character would be a puppy. Sure, he'll pee on the carpet a couple of times and chew on your slippers. But the good he brings to your day far, far outweighs the minor inconveniences.

 

Just let him be. He's special. #RedSox

 

 

That's great. I love it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bill Koch

@billkoch25

·

8h

Rafael Devers as a cartoon character would be a puppy. Sure, he'll pee on the carpet a couple of times and chew on your slippers. But the good he brings to your day far, far outweighs the minor inconveniences.

 

Just let him be. He's special. #RedSox

 

^^This.

 

He's our Big Puppy. That jersey might outsell Kike's on Players' Nickname Weekend...

[jad]

He's our Big Puppy. That jersey might outsell Kike's on Players' Nickname Weekend...

 

!!!!

[Kimmi]

He's our Big Puppy. That jersey might outsell Kike's on Players' Nickname Weekend...

 

I like it!

 

He made two very good defensive plays yesterday and today, to go along with his homeruns. By all accounts, he works really hard on his defense, and he gets down on himself more than anyone else does when he messes up. As Koch said, just let him be.

[mvp 78]

@SoxNotes

Rankings among AL players at their positions:

 

Bogaerts

10 HR – 1st

30 RBI – 1st

.345 AVG – 1st

.402 OBP – 1st

.602 SLG – 1st

 

Devers

13 HR – 1st

39 RBI – 1st

27 XBH – 1st

.592 SLG – 1st

.943 OPS – 1st

 

Martinez

38 R – 1st

12 HR – 2nd

37 RBI – 1st

.404 OBP – 1st

.996 OPS – 1st