2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[Elktonnick]

I'm not crying about Betts. I'm optimistic about our future.

 

My point was that we should not blame Bloom for losing Betts and not spending like the Dodgers or the Sox of old.

 

Had we kept Betts and went all austerity like we have, we'd be no better off, now.

 

I was not referring to you when I made the comment about crying about losing him. I was speaking in general. I happen to agree with your overall point. I think any team who gives a player a contract beyond 7 years will.ultimately regret the back end of the deal.

[notin]

I was not referring to you when I made the comment about crying about losing him. I was speaking in general. I happen to agree with your overall point. I think any team who gives a player a contract beyond 7 years will.ultimately regret the back end of the deal.

 

... unless said player is named Manny Ramirez.

 

I think 7 year deals for players under 30 (like Manny was) carry much less risk...

[moonslav59]

I was not referring to you when I made the comment about crying about losing him. I was speaking in general. I happen to agree with your overall point. I think any team who gives a player a contract beyond 7 years will.ultimately regret the back end of the deal.

 

For sure. My point about signing Betts for 10-12 years was that the first 5-7 years would more than make up for the back end, but I'm really over losing Betts, but certainly a deal like that takes a heavy toll on a team.

 

Verdugo looks like a nice pick-up and still has 4 years of team control (ages 25-28).

 

Downs and Wong are still unknowns, but both show promise.

 

We've added a lot of depth to the farm and short term ML contracts to the 26 man roster. Once we decide to spend big again, we'll have a big winter budget to work with.

 

Verdugo was a nice get, but under Bloom's watch we've also added these players to the farm:

 

Downs

Seabold

Rosario

Potts

Wong

Wallace

Arauz

German

Whitlock

Winckowski

Koss

 

and draftees Yorke, Jordan & Drohan plus IFA Bleis

 

That's better than I expected.

 

[dgalehouse]

The folks who like Bloom do so because they see his philosophy as being in line with their own way of thinking. And that's okay. But when the results are terrible , like last season , some other fans are not going to be too happy . The Bloom adherents are having to make excuses or blame others for the mess . Their loyalty to their guy is commendable . But how long can it last ? Already we are seeing some fans starting to write off this season , and saying things will get better in 2022. Maybe 2023 ? The problem is that a baseball season is a long time , a chunk of our lives . We don't all have that kind of patience just because we like Bloom and his style. We want to be " all in " all of the time. As for John Henry ; we really do appreciate the four titles . But has his attitude changed in the last couple of years ? Where is he , by the way ? He has been very , very quiet lately.

[Bellhorn04]

The folks who like Bloom do so because they see his philosophy as being in line with their own way of thinking. And that's okay. But when the results are terrible , like last season , some other fans are not going to be too happy . The Bloom adherents are having to make excuses or blame others for the mess . Their loyalty to their guy is commendable . But how long can it last ? Already we are seeing some fans starting to write off this season , and saying things will get better in 2022. Maybe 2023 ? The problem is that a baseball season is a long time , a chunk of our lives . We don't all have that kind of patience just because we like Bloom and his style. We want to be " all in " all of the time. As for John Henry ; we really do appreciate the four titles . But has his attitude changed in the last couple of years ? Where is he , by the way ? He has been very , very quiet lately.

 

To me it's not really that complicated. They went all in big time in 2018 and 2019. It paid off fantastically well in 2018. But then a whole bunch of things went wrong and the fallout was extreme. In my opinion the team did some hard things that had to be done. The on-field results in 2020 were ugly. But it was a perfect year to tank, honestly.

[Elktonnick]

The folks who like Bloom do so because they see his philosophy as being in line with their own way of thinking. And that's okay. But when the results are terrible , like last season , some other fans are not going to be too happy . The Bloom adherents are having to make excuses or blame others for the mess . Their loyalty to their guy is commendable . But how long can it last ? Already we are seeing some fans starting to write off this season , and saying things will get better in 2022. Maybe 2023 ? The problem is that a baseball season is a long time , a chunk of our lives . We don't all have that kind of patience just because we like Bloom and his style. We want to be " all in " all of the time. As for John Henry ; we really do appreciate the four titles . But has his attitude changed in the last couple of years ? Where is he , by the way ? He has been very , very quiet lately.

 

According to recent reporting out of the Athletic and at least one British sports publication, Henry and Werner are deeply involved in trying to create a super European football league comprising teams such as Liverpool, Manchester United, Real Madrid etc.

[moonslav59]

The Bloom adherents are having to make excuses or blame others for the mess . Their loyalty to their guy is commendable . But how long can it last ?

 

Is the mess we're in really Blooms fault?

 

Mostly his fault?

 

It's not excuses or blame. It's reality.

 

Yes, over time, we expects results to improve.

 

[moonslav59]

To me it's not really that complicated. They went all in big time in 2018 and 2019. It paid off fantastically well in 2018. But then a whole bunch of things went wrong and the fallout was extreme. In my opinion the team did some hard things that had to be done. The on-field results in 2020 were ugly. But it was a perfect year to tank, honestly.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

2016 and 2017 were pretty close to "all in" as well.

 

One might argue 2015, but they just spent the money on the wrong guys.

[notin]

Yes, I agree.

 

2016 and 2017 were pretty close to "all in" as well.

 

One might argue 2015, but they just spent the money on the wrong guys.

 

 

And even then Hanley looked like the right guy until he got injured...

[moonslav59]

And even then Hanley looked like the right guy until he got injured...

 

Agreed. Only in hindsight does HRam look bad.

 

Had we signed Scherzer & a lesser 3Bman (Headley), we wouldn't have signed Price and might still be "in the window."

[dgalehouse]

I was not referring to you when I made the comment about crying about losing him. I was speaking in general. I happen to agree with your overall point. I think any team who gives a player a contract beyond 7 years will.ultimately regret the back end of the deal.

 

Absolutely. There is a natural depreciation in many things in this life. The beauty of the woman / women you love. The car you bought . Your Smart TV , etc. , etc. And most definitely you , yourself. It certainly happens to baseball players too . Mookie Betts may or may not be an exception to the rule. But the question is : Were the good times worth the inevitable decline in value ? In Mookie's case , I think the answer is yes . That's how life is. If you want the best , the most exciting players , you have to pay the price. Now , the Dodgers are spreading the news. And the small time Charlies are singing the blues.

[Elktonnick]

Absolutely. There is a natural depreciation in many things in this life. The beauty of the woman / women you love. The car you bought . Your Smart TV , etc. , etc. And most definitely you , yourself. It certainly happens to baseball players too . Mookie Betts may or may not be an exception to the rule. But the question is : Were the good times worth the inevitable decline in value ? In Mookie's case , I think the answer is yes . That's how life is. If you want the best , the most exciting players , you have to pay the price. Now , the Dodgers are spreading the news. And the small time Charlies are singing the blues.

 

Yes but the roles will be reversed. That too is inevitable.

[mvp 78]

The Bloom adherents are having to make excuses or blame others for the mess . Their loyalty to their guy is commendable . But how long can it last ?

 

Is the mess we're in really Blooms fault?

 

Mostly his fault?

 

It's not excuses or blame. It's reality.

 

Yes, over time, we expects results to improve.

 

 

He's trying to clean the mess up. Not sure if he's made the right moves so far, but time will tell.

[moonslav59]

He's trying to clean the mess up. Not sure if he's made the right moves so far, but time will tell.

 

Well said. With his hands tied he hasn’t really been able to do anything major, so it’s hard to judge him, yet.

[mvp 78]

@redsoxpayroll

Boston currently has the 2nd highest CBT number (~$207MM) in baseball behind the Dodgers.

[moonslav59]

@redsoxpayroll

Boston currently has the 2nd highest CBT number (~$207MM) in baseball behind the Dodgers.

 

I think about $30M from this winter and way less from last winter’s spending. Only Kike is guaranteed through 2022, as a significant winter signing, and he just got two years.

[mvp 78]

@RedSox

The #RedSox today signed RHP Hirokazu Sawamura to a two-year contract, with a dual club/player option for the 2023 season.

 

To make room on the 40-man roster, the club designated LHP Jeffrey Springs for assignment.

[a700hitter]

@RedSox

The #RedSox today signed RHP Hirokazu Sawamura to a two-year contract, with a dual club/player option for the 2023 season.

 

To make room on the 40-man roster, the club designated LHP Jeffrey Springs for assignment.

I hope that he is good, because we don’t have a lot of reliable arms in the pen.

[mvp 78]

I hope that he is good, because we don’t have a lot of reliable arms in the pen.

 

The pen hinges on two things IMO:

 

How good is Ottavino (real wild card)?

Can Brasier be the good version again?

 

I think we already know what we are getting out of Barnes for better or worse. Sawamura has some control issues, but the Sox lived with Joe Kelly for a while. Darwinzon could eventually become the leader of the pen if he finds the plate more reliably. Andriese will be fine.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The pen hinges on two things IMO:

 

How good is Ottavino (real wild card)?

Can Brasier be the good version again?

 

I think we already know what we are getting out of Barnes for better or worse. Sawamura has some control issues, but the Sox lived with Joe Kelly for a while. Darwinzon could eventually become the leader of the pen if he finds the plate more reliably. Andriese will be fine.

 

This will be a better year, as long as the bullpen hinges don't open to start any games.

[notin]

The pen hinges on two things IMO:

 

How good is Ottavino (real wild card)?

Can Brasier be the good version again?

 

I think we already know what we are getting out of Barnes for better or worse. Sawamura has some control issues, but the Sox lived with Joe Kelly for a while. Darwinzon could eventually become the leader of the pen if he finds the plate more reliably. Andriese will be fine.

 

And can we get Brice out of there? What is a post-COVID Taylor ?

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Kickham, Triggs, Godley, Leyer, Lin, Puello, Peraza, Covey, Hall, Hart, Weber, Stock, Tapia, Aybar, Munoz, Grullon, Chatham, Mazza and Springs gone off the 40-man since the end of the year.

Puello, Hall, Hart, Weber, Munoz remain in org. Mazza/Springs pending DFAs.

[mvp 78]

This will be a better year, as long as the bullpen hinges don't open to start any games.

 

I haven't heard either way if they're going that route again. I've heard just as much talk about a 6 man rotation.

[mvp 78]

And can we get Brice out of there? What is a post-COVID Taylor ?

 

Taylor didn't have a long stretch of success. Hard to say what he actually is regardless of COVID.

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Kickham, Triggs, Godley, Leyer, Lin, Puello, Peraza, Covey, Hall, Hart, Weber, Stock, Tapia, Aybar, Munoz, Grullon, Chatham, Mazza and Springs gone off the 40-man since the end of the year.

Puello, Hall, Hart, Weber, Munoz remain in org. Mazza/Springs pending DFAs.

 

@redsoxstats

After a couple of years of horrible depth and relative ease in lopping off large chunks of the 40-man roster, I think the team is finally getting to the point of starting to have to make harder decisions with future transactions.

[moonslav59]

Taylor didn't have a long stretch of success. Hard to say what he actually is regardless of COVID.

 

Some may consider 47.1 IP as "long enough." I don't, but I do think it warrants him getting another shot over Brice, Springs and Wilson. Walden had some success, but it seemed like smoke and mirrors, to me. (I guess one could say the same about Taylor's 2019 season: 1.18 WHIP/ 3.11 FIP/11.8 K/9.) BTW, he also put in 23.1IP in AAA in 2019 with a 1.18 WHIP & 12.4 K/9. That's over 70 IP combined. His AA numbers were horrific in a much larger sample size.

[mvp 78]

Some may consider 47.1 IP as "long enough." I don't, but I do think it warrants him getting another shot over Brice, Springs and Wilson. Walden had some success, but it seemed like smoke and mirrors, to me. (I guess one could say the same about Taylor's 2019 season: 1.18 WHIP/ 3.11 FIP/11.8 K/9.) BTW, he also put in 23.1IP in AAA in 2019 with a 1.18 WHIP & 12.4 K/9. That's over 70 IP combined. His AA numbers were horrific in a much larger sample size.

 

I would say he's more deserving than the guys you mention. I'm just saying that there's a chance that he's just and up and down guy anyway.

[moonslav59]

I would say he's more deserving than the guys you mention. I'm just saying that there's a chance that he's just and up and down guy anyway.

 

Unlike Andriese and Brice, he has options left, so yes. Whitlock's rule 5 status locks him into a 26 man slot.

 

I still think cutting or trading Brice allows us to have better pitchers on the 26 man roster, but I get the idea of keeping as many pitchers as possible available.

 

Sign Sawamura and trade Chavis & Brice for Frazier & Brault and call it a winter.

[mvp 78]

Unlike Andriese and Brice, he has options left, so yes. Whitlock's rule 5 status locks him into a 26 man slot.

 

I still think cutting or trading Brice allows us to have better pitchers on the 26 man roster, but I get the idea of keeping as many pitchers as possible available.

 

Sign Sawamura and trade Chavis & Brice for Frazier & Brault and call it a winter.

 

I bet they get to 39 guys on the roster at the end of Spring Training and hope to snag someone on the wire.

[moonslav59]

Springs DFA'd as Sawamura is officially signed.