2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[notin]

Are we talking about improving over 2018's record, or improving over 2019's record?

 

Why would Bloom try to improve on 2018’s record?

[Bellhorn04]

Why would Bloom try to improve on 2018’s record?

 

So you're saying there was no hope of improving on 84-78.

[Bellhorn04]

With the re-signing of Justin Turner, the Dodgers 2021 luxury tax number is now an eye-popping $254 million.

 

That crazy freakin' Friedman!

[notin]

So you're saying there was no hope of improving on 84-78.

 

For the GM, how? With no money to spend and no prospect to trade? The only way it gets better is if the existing roster played better, which is outside the control of the GM or President of Operations.

 

And without Sale and ERod?

 

Enlighten me...

[Bellhorn04]

For the GM, how? With no money to spend and no prospect to trade? The only way it gets better is if the existing roster played better, which is outside the control of the GM or President of Operations.

 

And without Sale and ERod?

 

Enlighten me...

 

I'm not blaming anything on Bloom.

 

It was an organizational decision to trade Mookie and Price, and then there was that pesky little pandemic knocking out E-Rod and others, and taking 92 games off the sked, and Cora being gone...

 

It wasn't so much about Bloom inheriting a horrible team, as it was a convergence of factors that dictated tanking 2020.

[notin]

I'm not blaming anything on Bloom.

 

It was an organizational decision to trade Mookie and Price, and then there was that pesky little pandemic knocking out E-Rod and others, and taking 92 games off the sked, and Cora being gone...

 

It wasn't so much about Bloom inheriting a horrible team, as it was a convergence of factors that dictated tanking 2020.

 

There were.

 

But if they kept the 2019 squad intact, could not spend anything, had no real prospects to deal, and no young players coining up, how would they have improved?

 

They could have traded Casas, I suppose. Not sure how valuable he was in a trade. They could have dealt Benintendi, who had more value back then, but that move fills one hole by creating another.

 

Still asking - what was he supposed to do to get an 84-78 team back into the postseason?

[Bellhorn04]

There were.

 

But if they kept the 2019 squad intact, could not spend anything, had no real prospects to deal, and no young players coining up, how would they have improved?

 

They could have traded Casas, I suppose. Not sure how valuable he was in a trade. They could have dealt Benintendi, who had more value back then, but that move fills one hole by creating another.

 

Still asking - what was he supposed to do to get an 84-78 team back into the postseason?

 

There wasn't much Bloom could do once he received his instructions, I agree. There were things Henry and Werner could have done, but they chose to tank.

[Nick]

With the re-signing of Justin Turner, the Dodgers 2021 luxury tax number is now an eye-popping $254 million.

 

That crazy freakin' Friedman!

 

I like the moves they've made. They've improved the team without weakening the farm on the heels of winning the Series. They are all in. And unlike the Sox, all $254M is in play. Sox only has $150M in play as we start the season.

[Bellhorn04]

I like the moves they've made. They've improved the team without weakening the farm on the heels of winning the Series. They are all in. And unlike the Sox, all $254M is in play. Sox only has $150M in play as we start the season.

 

If I was a Dodgers fan I'd be happy. But man, $254 million plus luxury tax, with a pandemic going on, is an amazing amount of payroll.

[notin]

There wasn't much Bloom could do once he received his instructions, I agree. There were things Henry and Werner could have done, but they chose to tank.

 

I agree. His hands were very tied.

 

And as much as I want to blame Henry and Werner, at some point I can see them not being happy about dropping $240 mill on 25 players plus a luxury tax hat has no ROI, especially when they do not even make the post-season.

 

I'd like to see this whole luxury tax system dropped. It doesn't do what it is supposed to do at all, which is level the playing field for small market teams...

[notin]

With the re-signing of Justin Turner, the Dodgers 2021 luxury tax number is now an eye-popping $254 million.

 

That crazy freakin' Friedman!

 

Hopefully they gave him enough money to afford a subscription to Dollar Shave Club. Dude looks like a hobo...

[Nick]

If I was a Dodgers fan I'd be happy. But man, $254 million plus luxury tax, with a pandemic going on, is an amazing amount of payroll.

 

Only in Hollywood....

 

At $44M and having exceeded the tax limit last year, Dodgers will pay 30% x $44M plus 12% x $20M plus 42.5% x $4M = $17M (?)

 

$17M on top of $254M really doesn't sound too bad. Plus they will be consistently drafting later in each round so I'm not sure how damaging that will be on non monetary penalties.

 

It's like watching your neighbor get a new pool, new car and a trophy wife (and listening to your wife complaining how awful he is). Happy Valentines Day everyone.

 

PS. They do have tons of money coming off after this year.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Nick

[notin]

Only in Hollywood....

 

At $44M and having exceeded the tax limit last year, Dodgers will pay 30% x $44M plus 12% x $20M plus 42.5% x $4M = $17M (?)

 

$17M on top of $254M really doesn't sound too bad. Plus they will be consistently drafting later in each round so I'm not sure how damaging that will be on non monetary penalties.

 

It's like watching your neighbor get a new pool, new car and a trophy wife (and listening to your wife complaining how awful he is). Happy Valentines Day everyone.

 

PS. They do have tons of money coming off after this year.

 

And tons more going back on as Cody Bellinger has two years of arbitration left, and that money coming off will be from Kershaw, Jansen and Seager, and maybe Bauer some of whom might require replacing...

Edited February 14, 2021 by notin

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Devers and Vazquez made MLB.com's All Underrated Team.

 

It's the second year in a row that Vaz made it at catcher. How could he still be underrated if the same site gives him recognition for two straight years?

 

2021 most underrated MLB players

WWW.MLB.COM

---

It is time for the most underrated baseball column of the year -- the 2021 All-Underrated Team. But what does it mean to be underrated, anyway? In years past, we’ve filled out this team with guys who have never been All-Stars, major award finalists or nine-figure contract recipients, among other

[dgalehouse]

Professional sports are a part of the overall entertainment industry. When you go to see , or just stay home and watch , a movie , show or act , you don't worry about what the budget costs for the production were. You don't care how much the stars , supporting cast or headline entertainers are being paid . You just want to see a good , entertaining event. Unfortunately, a lot of the sport's owners don't want to spend what it takes to provide that. They come up with cockamamie things like the luxury tax to save on the spending. They trade a generational talent like Mookie Betts for the likes of Verdugo and Downs and expect us to understand and applaud. Now , I have no idea what their profit level is , or if any of them are actually losing money on their investment, but I do know that I am not desirous of watching a mediocre or worse performance for an entire season. Or maybe even longer. If they want us to part with our dollars, don't say things like " We are not all in this year." Especially coming on the heels of a debacle like last season. Kudos to the Dodgers .

[notin]

Devers and Vazquez made MLB.com's All Underrated Team.

 

It's the second year in a row that Vaz made it at catcher. How could he still be underrated if the same site gives him recognition for two straight years?

 

2021 most underrated MLB players

WWW.MLB.COM

---

It is time for the most underrated baseball column of the year -- the 2021 All-Underrated Team. But what does it mean to be underrated, anyway? In years past, we’ve filled out this team with guys who have never been All-Stars, major award finalists or nine-figure contract recipients, among other

 

Yeah "underrated" is a very overused and often misused word..

[moonslav59]

Not hope to improve? They were 12 months removed from winning 108 games with the same core.

 

With a highly restricted budget and a priority placed on rebuilding the farm and not raiding it, how exactly could that have been done?

[moonslav59]

There were.

 

But if they kept the 2019 squad intact, could not spend anything, had no real prospects to deal, and no young players coining up, how would they have improved?

 

They could have traded Casas, I suppose. Not sure how valuable he was in a trade. They could have dealt Benintendi, who had more value back then, but that move fills one hole by creating another.

 

Still asking - what was he supposed to do to get an 84-78 team back into the postseason?

 

The team did nothing between 2018 and 2019 and won 24 less games, but somehow having to cut salary and build the farm between 2019 and 2020, we were supposed to have a higher winning % in 2020.

 

I don't get the logic.

 

Sure, some of Bloom's moves have been head-scratchers, but who else could we have gotten for $3M that would have led us to improve on 2020 than Marwin? Are we really going here?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Professional sports are a part of the overall entertainment industry. When you go to see , or just stay home and watch , a movie , show or act , you don't worry about what the budget costs for the production were. You don't care how much the stars , supporting cast or headline entertainers are being paid . You just want to see a good , entertaining event. Unfortunately, a lot of the sport's owners don't want to spend what it takes to provide that. They come up with cockamamie things like the luxury tax to save on the spending. They trade a generational talent like Mookie Betts for the likes of Verdugo and Downs and expect us to understand and applaud. Now , I have no idea what their profit level is , or if any of them are actually losing money on their investment, but I do know that I am not desirous of watching a mediocre or worse performance for an entire season. Or maybe even longer. If they want us to part with our dollars, don't say things like " We are not all in this year." Especially coming on the heels of a debacle like last season. Kudos to the Dodgers .

 

Good post. I used the movie star comp a lot when people claimed that Mookie wasn't worth his asking (and getting) price. Nobody ever complains that a movie star is overpaid. But how many times have we heard or said that a movie sucks?

[moonslav59]

 

It's the second year in a row that Vaz made it at catcher. How could he still be underrated if the same site gives him recognition for two straight years?

 

 

Because nobody pays attention to their ratings,maybe?

[moonslav59]

Good post. I used the movie star comp a lot when people claimed that Mookie wasn't worth his asking (and getting) price. Nobody ever complains that a movie star is overpaid. But how many times have we heard or said that a movie sucks?

 

I was on record saying we should pay Mookie, but I seriously doubt Sox management expected fans to "applaud" trading him away.

 

We're in rebuild mode. It is what it is- like it or not- watch them or don't.

 

I'll be watching and cheering. I think there are a lot of interesting aspects to this team, including a deepening of the roster that gives us a few options (or hopes) at our areas of weakness. That includes the liklihood of a few prospects getting a look, this summer (Duran, Mata, Downs, Seabols and others). That includes watching possible to likely rebounds by JD, Devers, Sale, ERod and others. That includes the return of Cora. Maybe watching Dalbec prove 2020 was no fluke. Maybe watching DHern finally master his control.

 

Lots of maybes. Lots of question marks. Lots of health-related concerns but also possibilities of returns to greatness or near greatness.

 

I'm fine with thinking 2020 is and never was going to be a ring year. We're on the up slope, now. Our future is brighter, and we'll have some nice draft pick slots- the best since the 60's.

 

Doom & gloom away, but I'm choosing to think brighter thoughts.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I was on record saying we should pay Mookie, but I seriously doubt Sox management expected fans to "applaud" trading him away.

 

We're in rebuild mode. It is what it is- like it or not- watch them or don't.

 

I'll be watching and cheering. I think there are a lot of interesting aspects to this team, including a deepening of the roster that gives us a few options (or hopes) at our areas of weakness. That includes the liklihood of a few prospects getting a look, this summer (Duran, Mata, Downs, Seabols and others). That includes watching possible to likely rebounds by JD, Devers, Sale, ERod and others. That includes the return of Cora. Maybe watching Dalbec prove 2020 was no fluke. Maybe watching DHern finally master his control.

 

Lots of maybes. Lots of question marks. Lots of health-related concerns but also possibilities of returns to greatness or near greatness.

 

I'm fine with thinking 2020 is and never was going to be a ring year. We're on the up slope, now. Our future is brighter, and we'll have some nice draft pick slots- the best since the 60's.

 

Doom & gloom away, but I'm choosing to think brighter thoughts.

 

I'm ready to watch than just read and type. But getting back to the movie analogy, I won't call anyone a front-runner if they leave a game early, especially after paying money for a seat or to a cable company. Nobody makes fun of movie fans who leave a theater early or change the channel at home.

[moonslav59]

I'm ready to watch than just read and type. But getting back to the movie analogy, I won't call anyone a front-runner if they leave a game early, especially after paying money for a seat or to a cable company. Nobody makes fun of movie fans who leave a theater early or change the channel at home.

 

I watch some movies all the way to the end, knowing full well it's not a great movie-let alone worthy of a academy award nomination.

 

I understand the idea that any team spending $200M on players should never finish in last place, but the 2020 team had enough valid reasons (or excuses) for finishing where they did.

 

I don't see 2021 as being anywhere near a repeat of 2020, but apparently some, here, do.

 

We'll see. Well,some of us will. I guess some "Sox fans" have deemed them "unwatchable."

 

I'm watching with optimism.

[dgalehouse]

I watch some movies all the way to the end, knowing full well it's not a great movie-let alone worthy of a academy award nomination.

 

I understand the idea that any team spending $200M on players should never finish in last place, but the 2020 team had enough valid reasons (or excuses) for finishing where they did.

 

I don't see 2021 as being anywhere near a repeat of 2020, but apparently some, here, do.

 

We'll see. Well,some of us will. I guess some "Sox fans" have deemed them "unwatchable."

 

I'm watching with optimism.

Okay , you are watching with " optimism " . But you were the first one to jump ship when we hit some rough waters in 2019. I always try to be optimistic. But I am just trying to explain to some folks here why many of us are a bit disgruntled. And why some of us are not feeling the love for Chaim Bloom .

[harmony]

I watch some movies all the way to the end, knowing full well it's not a great movie-let alone worthy of a academy award nomination.

 

I understand the idea that any team spending $200M on players should never finish in last place, but the 2020 team had enough valid reasons (or excuses) for finishing where they did.

 

I don't see 2021 as being anywhere near a repeat of 2020, but apparently some, here, do.

 

We'll see. Well,some of us will. I guess some "Sox fans" have deemed them "unwatchable."

 

I'm watching with optimism.

Some fans are watching with optimism for a Seattle club that has not been to the postseason since 2001.

 

It's that time of year.

[Bellhorn04]

Some fans are watching with optimism for a Seattle club that has not been to the postseason since 2001.

 

It's that time of year.

 

You got Paxton back.

[moonslav59]

Okay , you are watching with " optimism " . But you were the first one to jump ship when we hit some rough waters in 2019. I always try to be optimistic. But I am just trying to explain to some folks here why many of us are a bit disgruntled. And why some of us are not feeling the love for Chaim Bloom .

 

Yes, I was the first to "jump ship" in 2019, but I still watched every pitch of every game.

 

I had expected the window of high competitiveness to last beyond 2018, possibly all the way to 2020, or whenever we decided to reset.

 

The total collapse of 2019 was unexpected, and it didn't help matters that most of us thought we'd make the playoffs in February of 2019.

 

(I'm usually one of the last to "give up" on a season.)

 

I'm not going to mention the word used to predict what was coming, and I'm pretty sure nobody expected that day to come so quickly, but I guess what bothers me most is that some are placing most of the blame on Bloom, or at least it sounds that way.

 

Blaming Henry would make more sense, but nobody will ever get me to jump on that warped bandwagon. Henry is the best owner we've ever had. If he chooses to take a step back to regroup, reset and work on building back up to greatness, I'm fine with that.

 

Blaming Dave makes more sense, but as I've said numerous times, I'm fine with what Dave did knowing full well a reset and rebuild would come at some point. We are living the consequences of choices made by Dace and Henry coupled with some unfortunate events, like the Sale injury, COVID & ERod, JD's 2020 slump and more. Could Dave seen it coming and mitigated some of it? Probably.

 

Could Bloom have handled some things differently? Yes.

 

I don't think many of us defending Bloom are part of some love Bloom cult. I, for one, don't really know what he's capable of, yet, because he has not really been give the same opportunities Theo, Ben & Dave got. I've been critical of some of his moves. I thought we could have and should have kept Betts, if it was even possible.

 

I'd have rather spend Ottavino and Marwin's money on Odorizzi, but I know full well he may not deliver what we need.

 

Given the two winter spending budgets Bloom had, it's hard for me to imagine any scenario where he could have built a solid competitive team for 2020 or 2021.

 

I can totally understand not loving Bloom after seeing so little of what he might be able to do, but I'm seeing a lot, what I feel is, misplaced blame.

 

Had Henry decided to spend, spend, spend after 2018 or 2019, and we had this roster to show for it, I'd be on the bash Bloom bandwagon, but the guy was given very little money to spend, and what I believe was a directive to get the budget in good long term shape AND to build the farm back up to the point where we could expect some low cost talent being infused onto the 26 man roster over the next few years.

 

He's done pretty well building up the farm. I thought it would take longer to get to about average. With this draft coming up, and maybe some summer trades, we could see our farm near or in the top 10 again- something we haven't seen since Dave's early days as GM.

 

Bloom has made no long term commitments, so we have no fears of repeating some mistakes our past GMs have made in that area. Someday, he will make a big signing, and that will be the time to know what king of GM he is and will be.

[Elktonnick]

I was on record saying we should pay Mookie, but I seriously doubt Sox management expected fans to "applaud" trading him away.

 

We're in rebuild mode. It is what it is- like it or not- watch them or don't.

 

I'll be watching and cheering. I think there are a lot of interesting aspects to this team, including a deepening of the roster that gives us a few options (or hopes) at our areas of weakness. That includes the liklihood of a few prospects getting a look, this summer (Duran, Mata, Downs, Seabols and others). That includes watching possible to likely rebounds by JD, Devers, Sale, ERod and others. That includes the return of Cora. Maybe watching Dalbec prove 2020 was no fluke. Maybe watching DHern finally master his control.

 

Lots of maybes. Lots of question marks. Lots of health-related concerns but also possibilities of returns to greatness or near greatness.

 

I'm fine with thinking 2020 is and never was going to be a ring year. We're on the up slope, now. Our future is brighter, and we'll have some nice draft pick slots- the best since the 60's.

 

Doom & gloom away, but I'm choosing to think brighter thoughts.

There was no way John Henry was going to give Mookie Betts a twelve year contract. It never was going to happen. Moreover while Boston may be a major market, the Red Sox simply do not have the financial resources to match the Dodgers. If there were to be so foolish to do so, such a contract would soon be seen as a millstone around their necks as Betts skills declined just as other superstars with long term contracts have. Soon fans would have been bitching about his contract just as some fans have bitched about others. So let's stop crying about Betts, he is Dodger and let's see how long LA fans last before some start complaining about how Betts contract negatively impacts their competetiveness

[harmony]

You got Paxton back.

James Paxton will join a Seattle rotation headed by fellow lefthanders Marco Gonzales, Justus Sheffield and Yusei Kikuchi, who last year combined for 4.7 fWAR in 30 starts.

 

Fingers crossed.

[moonslav59]

There was no way John Henry was going to give Mookie Betts a twelve year contract. It never was going to happen. Moreover while Boston may be a major market, the Red Sox simply do not have the financial resources to match the Dodgers. If there were to be so foolish to do so, such a contract would soon be seen as a millstone around their necks as Betts skills declined just as other superstars with long term contracts have. Soon fans would have been bitching about his contract just as some fans have bitched about others. So let's stop crying about Betts, he is Dodger and let's see how long LA fans last before some start complaining about how Betts contract negatively impacts their competetiveness

 

I'm not crying about Betts. I'm optimistic about our future.

 

My point was that we should not blame Bloom for losing Betts and not spending like the Dodgers or the Sox of old.

 

Had we kept Betts and went all austerity like we have, we'd be no better off, now.