A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If you are including me as part of the 'people', once again, I give Dombrowski full credit for all the moves he made in 2018.

 

The Sox knew and many fans knew the sacrifices at the time, that I assume most happily accepted... as I would assume with most teams and fans in any city in any given year.

[mvp 78]

The Sox knew and many fans knew the sacrifices at the time, that I assume most happily accepted... as I would assume with most teams and fans in any city in any given year.

 

The only questionable trade was Pomeranz. That worked out fine in the long run though.

[moonslav59]

Some GM's totally screw up in that position. It's never guaranteed that your moves will be the right ones.

 

True, and many of DD's did not, either.

 

Many of his trades looked okay to good, only because the guys we traded tanked or had TJS. Even the Thornburg trade, which looked awful when Shaw had a great year, ended up looking closer to a wash as Shaw fell off a cliff.

 

On the other hand, the Sale trade that looked great at the start, but now looks more even.

[moonslav59]

I am not denying how great 2018 was. I just think the credit for that season belongs much more to Theo and Ben than it does to Dave.

 

Also, I said that I am okay with any of the moves, taken by themselves, that Dombrowski made, not that they were necessarily good moves. But to clarify, I'm not saying that we did not get good players from these moves. We got some very good or great players. I am just not impressed with any GM acquiring a big name player by paying the highest price for him.

 

Show me the shrewd, small market moves. Then I'll be impressed.

 

Besides the Pearce and Eovaldi trades?

 

2017:

Signed Mitch Moreland to 2 year deal

Traded 3 marginal prospects for Addison Reed

Traded Shuan Anderson & G Santos for Nunez, who did great for us in '17.

Claimed Doug Fister off waivers

Signed Marcus Walden to minor league deal

2018:

Signed Ryan Brasier to minor league deal (did great)

Traded Quiroz for Brewer

Traded Deven Marrero for Josh Taylor

Signed Ryan Weber

2019:

Traded Blake Swihart for Marcus Wilson

 

Unlike small market teams, DD had mostly low draft picks, but did pretty good with them:

 

2016: Dalbec, Groome, Chatham, Shawaryn, K Hart

2017: Houck

2018: Casas (our #1 prospect), Ward, Duran, Feltman

2019: Lugo & Song

 

I'd say there were some decent "small market type" moves by DD.

 

The lack of any meaningful IFA signings hurt us badly.

[Bellhorn04]

Besides the Pearce and Eovaldi trades?

 

2017:

Signed Mitch Moreland to 2 year deal

Traded 3 marginal prospects for Addison Reed

Traded Shuan Anderson & G Santos for Nunez, who did great for us in '17.

Claimed Doug Fister off waivers

Signed Marcus Walden to minor league deal

2018:

Signed Ryan Brasier to minor league deal (did great)

Traded Quiroz for Brewer

Traded Deven Marrero for Josh Taylor

Signed Ryan Weber

2019:

Traded Blake Swihart for Marcus Wilson

 

Unlike small market teams, DD had mostly low draft picks, but did pretty good with them:

 

2016: Dalbec, Groome, Chatham, Shawaryn, K Hart

2017: Houck

2018: Casas (our #1 prospect), Ward, Duran, Feltman

2019: Lugo & Song

 

I'd say there were some decent "small market type" moves by DD.

 

I would only add:

 

-Signed Vazquez to extension.

-Spent jacksquat on relievers for 2019.

[moonslav59]

The only questionable trade was Pomeranz. That worked out fine in the long run though.

 

Only because Espinoza had TJS.

 

Pom didn't really help us win a ring. His best year was not 2018.

[dgalehouse]

I would only add:

 

-Signed Vazquez to extension.

-Spent jacksquat on relievers for 2019.

 

My biggest complaint with Dombrowski is his ignoring the Sox bullpen prior to and during the 2019 season. The injuries to , and underperformance by , the starting pitchers were just one of those things that happen. The bullpen problems were predictable and should have been seen coming a mile away.

[moonslav59]

I would only add:

 

-Signed Vazquez to extension.

-Spent jacksquat on relievers for 2019.

 

While the Bogey extension was not "small market," it was team-friendly.

[Bellhorn04]

While the Bogey extension was not "small market," it was team-friendly.

 

100%

[moonslav59]

100%

 

...and even small market teams make extensions like that, although they often back end load them and trade the player after a few years.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

My biggest complaint with Dombrowski is his ignoring the Sox bullpen prior to and during the 2019 season. The injuries to , and underperformance by , the starting pitchers were just one of those things that happen. The bullpen problems were predictable and should have been seen coming a mile away.

 

Not adding bullpen help at the '19 deadline was so anti-Dombro that I thought at the time that ownership shut him down. Maybe they were already preparing to ditch him and reset; sorry Dave, no more trading prospects away, no more adding high salaries... plus, we're not really good enough to make a deep run anyway.

 

I remember Merloni at the time saying that the front office had given up. He was especially upset, he said, because it was "Mookie's last year!"

[Kimmi]

Besides the Pearce and Eovaldi trades?

 

2017:

Signed Mitch Moreland to 2 year deal

Traded 3 marginal prospects for Addison Reed

Traded Shuan Anderson & G Santos for Nunez, who did great for us in '17.

Claimed Doug Fister off waivers

Signed Marcus Walden to minor league deal

2018:

Signed Ryan Brasier to minor league deal (did great)

Traded Quiroz for Brewer

Traded Deven Marrero for Josh Taylor

Signed Ryan Weber

2019:

Traded Blake Swihart for Marcus Wilson

 

Unlike small market teams, DD had mostly low draft picks, but did pretty good with them:

 

2016: Dalbec, Groome, Chatham, Shawaryn, K Hart

2017: Houck

2018: Casas (our #1 prospect), Ward, Duran, Feltman

2019: Lugo & Song

 

I'd say there were some decent "small market type" moves by DD.

 

The lack of any meaningful IFA signings hurt us badly.

 

I will give him credit for signing Mitch Moreland. Plus credit for every move made in 2018.

[Kimmi]

My biggest complaint with Dombrowski is his ignoring the Sox bullpen prior to and during the 2019 season. The injuries to , and underperformance by , the starting pitchers were just one of those things that happen. The bullpen problems were predictable and should have been seen coming a mile away.

 

I, OTOH, give Dombrowski praise for not spending ridiculously on the pen in 2019.

 

So there's something else he gets credit for.

[moonslav59]

I will give him credit for signing Mitch Moreland. Plus credit for every move made in 2018.

 

The Nunez deal was a good one- not the re-signing.

Walden did very well for us.

He drafted pretty well with such bad picks.

[moonslav59]

Here is soxprospects.com projected AAA roster:

 

C Wong/ Grullon

1B Ockimey

2B Downs

SS Arauz

3B de la Guerra

LF Puello

CF Duran

RF Longhi

DH Chatham

 

SP: Mata, Seabold, Mazza, Hart, Weber

RP: Feltman, Shawaryn, Bazardo, Stock, Gonsalves, Poyner[

 

Notables at AA

SP: Ward

1B: Casas

3B: Potts

CF: Rosario

RF: Wilson

[moonslav59]

SP1_______

SP2 Eovaldi

SP3 ERod

SP4 Houck

SP5 Perez

SP6 Pivetta

 

RP1 ______

RP2 ______

RP3 Barnes

RP4 Brasier

RP5 DHern

RP6 Taylor

RP7 Valdez/Covey

 

C Vazquez. Plawecki

1B Dalbec, Chavis

2B ______, Arroyo, Munoz

SS Bogaerts

3B Devers

LF Beni

CF _______(JBJ)

RF Verdugo

DH Martinez

LHH ________

 

IL: Sale, Pedroia

[harmony]

The Boston Globe's two-part series on Chaim Bloom's first year with the Red Sox:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/10/22/sports/chaim-bloom-red-sox-first-year-analysis/?p1=Article_Inline_Text_Link

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/10/23/sports/after-year-what-have-we-learned-about-chaim-blooms-plan-red-sox/

[cp176]

It was fun reading through the last few pages. Eventually a few of you will be able to get beyond your dislike of DD. He isn't with us anymore. Just let it go.

By the way, I was a fan of the trade that brought Pomeranz to Boston. It was worth the risk and obviously in hindsight that proves to be true.

[oldtimer]

SP1_______

SP2 Eovaldi

SP3 ERod

SP4 Houck

SP5 Perez

SP6 Pivetta

 

RP1 ______

RP2 ______

RP3 Barnes

RP4 Brasier

RP5 DHern

RP6 Taylor

RP7 Valdez/Covey

 

C Vazquez. Plawecki

1B Dalbec, Chavis

2B ______, Arroyo, Munoz

SS Bogaerts

3B Devers

LF Beni

CF _______(JBJ)

RF Verdugo

DH Martinez

LHH ________

 

IL: Sale, Pedroia

 

Funny how Soxprospects.com leave off several of the prospects likely to get a long look in spring training. Duran, Mata, Ward

[moonslav59]

Funny how Soxprospects.com leave off several of the prospects likely to get a long look in spring training. Duran, Mata, Ward

 

There's only 26 allowed on the roster, and this is likely their opening day projection. They project Ward to start in AA.

 

I doubt any of those 3 make the roster before June/July.

[Bellhorn04]

The Nunez deal was a good one- not the re-signing.

Walden did very well for us.

He drafted pretty well with such bad picks.

 

So he did a lot of good things.

[moonslav59]

So he did a lot of good things.

 

Yes. I've never said he didn't.

 

He built the greatest Sox team in history.

 

He also traded the future to do it.

 

It's okay to think someone did an overall okay to good job but left severe consequences. I was fine with the trade-off and still am, but I'm not going to sugar coat the fact that the cliff was and still is real. At the time, I argued he went to far ("overkill"), but to win it all, sometimes you need to think and act that way.

 

Had we not won the ring is 2018, I'd be blasting away at DD's legacy.

[mvp 78]

Yes. I've never said he didn't.

 

He built the greatest Sox team in history.

 

He also traded the future to do it.

 

It's okay to think someone did an overall okay to good job but left severe consequences. I was fine with the trade-off and still am, but I'm not going to sugar coat the fact that the cliff was and still is real. At the time, I argued he went to far ("overkill"), but to win it all, sometimes you need to think and act that way.

 

Had we not won the ring is 2018, I'd be blasting away at DD's legacy.

 

And the Dodgers went for overkill in 2020. Maybe the Betts contract hinders them in the future? I think it was worth it for the Dodgers fans who haven't had a title in over 30 years.

[moonslav59]

And the Dodgers went for overkill in 2020. Maybe the Betts contract hinders them in the future? I think it was worth it for the Dodgers fans who haven't had a title in over 30 years.

 

If they win, it was all worth it.

 

It seems like they have been in overkill mode for several years, now, which makes DD's success in 2018 all the more noteworthy. As much as he did, it was still never a sure bet, but it worked, so I am thankful.

 

Now, we pick up the pieces and move towards our next ring.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes. I've never said he didn't.

 

He built the greatest Sox team in history.

 

He also traded the future to do it.

 

It's okay to think someone did an overall okay to good job but left severe consequences. I was fine with the trade-off and still am, but I'm not going to sugar coat the fact that the cliff was and still is real. At the time, I argued he went to far ("overkill"), but to win it all, sometimes you need to think and act that way.

 

Had we not won the ring is 2018, I'd be blasting away at DD's legacy.

 

I agree with most of this. But I think 'traded the future' might be overstating it a bit.

[notin]

I agree with most of this. But I think 'traded the future' might be overstating it a bit.

 

So you agree that he "didn't trade away any good players" is understating it? Or at the very least, a premature statement?

[moonslav59]

I agree with most of this. But I think 'traded the future' might be overstating it a bit.

 

He kept Devers and a handful of others, but he traded away a large part of our future.

 

Top soxprospects.com ranking

1 Yoan Moncada

1 Blake Swihart

3 Manuel Margot

3 Anderson Espinoza

5 Michael Kopech

5 Jalen Beeks

5 Devon Marrero

6 Javier Guerra

7 Luis Basabe

9 Marcus Dubon

11 Shaun Anderson

12 Wendell Rijo

13 Logan Allen

17 Ty Buttrey

18 Luis Basabe

18 Jamie Callahan

20 Gerson Bautista

20 Carlos Asuaje

20 Stephen Nogosek

 

Certainly some of these guys were not top 20, when traded, but he did trade 19 prospects that were promising to very promising at some point.

 

What would you call it?

[mvp 78]

Swihart is not a large part of anyone's future. Espinoza is done. Beeks is a bullpen arm. Marrero is a nobody. Guerra, Basabe, Anderson, Rijo, Basabe, Callahan, Bautista, Asuaje and Nogosek are all easily replaceable. Dealing Dubon, Allen and Buttrey didn't really wreck the franchise. They probably could still have those three guys, but last year's team would have still been very bad.

[moonslav59]

Swihart is not a large part of anyone's future. Espinoza is done. Beeks is a bullpen arm. Marrero is a nobody. Guerra, Basabe, Anderson, Rijo, Basabe, Callahan, Bautista, Asuaje and Nogosek are all easily replaceable. Dealing Dubon, Allen and Buttrey didn't really wreck the franchise. They probably could still have those three guys, but last year's team would have still been very bad.

 

I stated that some of those traded were certainly not top 20 prospects at the time of the trade, and many went on to do very little or got hurt, but the fact is, he traded away many of our best hopes.

 

There were still at least 10 players that had much promise, and I took away Javier Guerra...

1 Yoan Moncada

3 Manuel Margot

3 Anderson Espinoza

5 Michael Kopech

5 Jalen Beeks

7 Luis Basabe

9 Marcus Dubon

11 Shaun Anderson

13 Logan Allen

17 Ty Buttrey

20 Gerson Bautista

[mvp 78]

There were still at least 10 players that had much promise

 

Hard to trade prospects that don't show any promise.