A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

Two years ago we were celebrating " the greatest team ever assembled ". Now , we are debating whether to sign Pillar or Marisnick.

 

The greatest teams ever assembled tend not to last very long.

 

Cheer up, Denny, there will be good times again.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

C'mon. Get real. Bard has been out of MLB since 2013, and he only threw one inning then.

 

During his last full season before this one, his teammates included Will Middlebrooks, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Daisuke Matsuzaka and Scott Posednik, and the Sox had just hired a new GM named Ben Cherington...

 

I vote for you, typing all those longass names together in the same post, maybe for the first time in seven seasons!

[dgalehouse]

The greatest teams ever assembled tend not to last very long.

 

Cheer up, Denny, there will be good times again.

 

Let the good times roll, I always say . ( Well , I don't always say it , but sometimes I do say it. )

[moonslav59]

C'mon. Get real. Bard has been out of MLB since 2013, and he only threw one inning then.

 

During his last full season before this one, his teammates included Will Middlebrooks, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Daisuke Matsuzaka and Scott Posednik, and the Sox had just hired a new GM named Ben Cherington...

 

To tell you the truth, when I first saw Bard's name, this season, I thought it must be another person with the same name.

[notin]

I vote for you, typing all those longass names together in the same post, maybe for the first time in seven seasons!

 

Well thank you. but I am ineligible for any sort of comeback award, as I never left...

[notin]

To tell you the truth, when I first saw Bard's name, this season, I thought it must be another person with the same name.

 

And seeing "Daniel Bard" probably didn't change that...

[moonslav59]

And seeing "Daniel Bard" probably didn't change that...

 

It seemed longer ago that it was. I was thinking, "Is this his son?"

[moonslav59]

Red Sox Interview Luis Urueta, Don Kelly, Skip Schumaker

By Steve Adams

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/10/red-sox-rumors-luis-urueta-dbacks-coach-interview-manager.html

 

 

MLBTR also reports:

 

Chris Cotillo suggests that Connor Wong, Hudson Potts, Jeisson Rosario, Jay Groome, Bryan Mata, and Connor Seabold are the prospects Boston will add to to 40-man roster in the coming weeks. Outfielder Marcus Wilson is also a fair bet to make that list.

 

Some of the departures are easy to spot, such as free agent to be Jackie Bradley Jr., or DFA candidates like Jose Peraza, , Matt Hall, Zack Godley, Andrew Triggs, Cesar Puello, Tzu-Wei Lin. Dustin Pedroia is also a likely removal, despite the $12.125MM he is owed for 2021

 

The fact is, the Red Sox more likely to move on from much more than just 13 players, the number it would take to get their 40-man roster down to 40. They’ll need space to add players, as well. Especially for a team like the Red Sox – given their place in the rebuilding cycle – they are more likely to add a flyer or two, as well as make a selection in the Rule 5 draft..

Edited October 23, 2020 by moonslav59

[dgalehouse]

For some reason , teams always seem to interview a couple of guys that they have no intention of hiring.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

For some reason , teams always seem to interview a couple of guys that they have no intention of hiring.

 

They want to make it look like they're doing diligence.

[notin]

For some reason , teams always seem to interview a couple of guys that they have no intention of hiring.

 

As does any employer with any job...

[Kimmi]

Two years ago we were celebrating " the greatest team ever assembled ". Now , we are debating whether to sign Pillar or Marisnick.

 

Thanks Dave! (No, I'm not thanking him for assembling the greatest team ever, since that thanks goes to Ben and Theo.)

[oldtimer]

Red Sox Interview Luis Urueta, Don Kelly, Skip Schumaker

By Steve Adams

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/10/red-sox-rumors-luis-urueta-dbacks-coach-interview-manager.html

 

 

MLBTR also reports:

 

Chris Cotillo suggests that Connor Wong, Hudson Potts, Jeisson Rosario, Jay Groome, Bryan Mata, and Connor Seabold are the prospects Boston will add to to 40-man roster in the coming weeks. Outfielder Marcus Wilson is also a fair bet to make that list.

 

Some of the departures are easy to spot, such as free agent to be Jackie Bradley Jr., or DFA candidates like Jose Peraza, , Matt Hall, Zack Godley, Andrew Triggs, Cesar Puello, Tzu-Wei Lin. Dustin Pedroia is also a likely removal, despite the $12.125MM he is owed for 2021

 

The fact is, the Red Sox more likely to move on from much more than just 13 players, the number it would take to get their 40-man roster down to 40. They’ll need space to add players, as well. Especially for a team like the Red Sox – given their place in the rebuilding cycle – they are more likely to add a flyer or two, as well as make a selection in the Rule 5 draft..

 

By the end of next week we may well resolve the name of our new manager, get to the first pass of the 40 man and then be in a position to make meaningful trades and FA acquisitions. The fans will be given a lot of material for discussion here. It will move from speculation to substance. We know our needs, 2 starters, two or three relievers, an outfielder and at least a utility infielder. How that gets accomplished, whether a mix of internal and new acquisitions will be great fodder for discussion. I trust Bloom.

[jacksonianmarch]

Don’t underestimate drafting 4th in the rule V. Teams with good records or good farms usually don’t burn 40 man slots on Rule V guys. The Sox, otoh, might end up selecting a few players.

[Bellhorn04]

As does any employer with any job...

 

Not always. Did DD interview anyone besides Cora?

[Bellhorn04]

Thanks Dave! (No, I'm not thanking him for assembling the greatest team ever, since that thanks goes to Ben and Theo.)

 

You have to at least give him credit for hiring Cora, since you're a Cora fan.

[Kimmi]

You have to at least give him credit for hiring Cora, since you're a Cora fan.

 

I have given him credit for Cora and for every signing that he made in 2018. He did a great job that year.

[moonslav59]

I have given him credit for Cora and for every signing that he made in 2018. He did a great job that year.

 

He made a lot of very good to great moves and signings beyond just 2018. Like you,I think he went beyond what was needed or practical- overkill, if you wish, but he does deserve more than just a little credit for building the 2028 mega team.

 

Giving him credit does not absolve him of any blame or culpability all those moves created or caused. His tenure, here, was a mixed bag of good and bad- much like the GMs before him, but maybe to more of an extreme.

 

The hard part is trying to determine how much the good outweighs the bad or vice versa. I suspect this board will never agree on the end result of that calculation. IMO, he's about a push. The ring justifies a lot, if not all, of the mess we are in, now. I'm pretty sure you feel otherwise. Others think he was a huge plus.

 

[Bellhorn04]

He made a lot of very good to great moves and signings beyond just 2018. Like you,I think he went beyond what was needed or practical- overkill, if you wish, but he does deserve more than just a little credit for building the 2028 mega team.

 

Giving him credit does not absolve him of any blame or culpability all those moves created or caused. His tenure, here, was a mixed bag of good and bad- much like the GMs before him, but maybe to more of an extreme.

 

The hard part is trying to determine how much the good outweighs the bad or vice versa. I suspect this board will never agree on the end result of that calculation. IMO, he's about a push. The ring justifies a lot, if not all, of the mess we are in, now. I'm pretty sure you feel otherwise. Others think he was a huge plus.

 

 

Personally I think John Henry has kind of a magic touch with this stuff, in spite of the roller coaster we've been on.

 

Theo, Ben and DD all won rings.

 

And acquiring Bloom seems like a perfectly timed move that will result in more success.

[moonslav59]

Personally I think John Henry has kind of a magic touch with this stuff, in spite of the roller coaster we've been on.

 

Theo, Ben and DD all won rings.

 

And acquiring Bloom seems like a perfectly timed move that will result in more success.

 

100%, Bell- 100%!

 

I think we need to realize that to win it all, sacrifices have to be made- hence the dips on the "roller coaster" ride.

 

I've been a Sox fan since 1970. I remember saying I'd take 10 last place finishes for just one ring. I meant it. The whole "playing it half way" philosophy may have led to making a lot of money over the years, but it was heart-breaking to us fans.

 

Of course,once we won that first ring in 2004, I would not have been okay with blowing it all up and finishing last for 10 years, but it's never hurt as much losing after 2004.

 

By remaining a top 5 spender, every year, we should be able to avoid really bad or really long stretches of losing, but to me, we have to expect some lulls in the glory area to get there every 3-7 years or so. I get the anger over the 3 last places under Ben's leadership. That should not happen when spending like we were, but we did get that ring. Same with DD. Same with Theo.

 

Henry is the man.

[mvp 78]

Personally I think John Henry has kind of a magic touch with this stuff, in spite of the roller coaster we've been on.

 

Theo, Ben and DD all won rings.

 

And acquiring Bloom seems like a perfectly timed move that will result in more success.

 

The magic checkbook.

 

Well, he inherited Pedro. Pedro told them to sign Papi. They were able to dump bad contracts on the inept version of the Dodgers.

[moonslav59]

The magic checkbook.

 

Well, he inherited Pedro. Pedro told them to sign Papi. They were able to dump bad contracts on the inept version of the Dodgers.

 

The previous GM, Dan Duquette left a nice foundation for Henry & Theo. There were no major sunken contracts.

 

Henry changed the "culture" of the team starting with the management and the elimination of complacency. There was an early focus put on building the farm. The Sox mastered the game of acquiring comp picks and finding top IFAs. The checkbook certainly was a major factor in winning rings. A few key trades, most notably the Schilling VTek/Lowe and Dodger dump deals, were essential, too.

 

Without Henry, we may still be looking for our first ring in almost a century.

[notin]

The magic checkbook.

 

Well, he inherited Pedro. Pedro told them to sign Papi. They were able to dump bad contracts on the inept version of the Dodgers.

 

A lot of [people make a big deal out of Pedro telling them to sign Papi. But my understanding is players do make those type of recommendations all the time, and a lot of them never happen. The front office still had to make the decision to go through with it...

[Elktonnick]

Personally I think John Henry has kind of a magic touch with this stuff, in spite of the roller coaster we've been on.

 

Theo, Ben and DD all won rings.

 

And acquiring Bloom seems like a perfectly timed move that will result in more success.

 

Like him or not John Henry's track record on sports entrepreneurship is simply incredible. He has turned a struggling baseball franchise, the Boston Red Sox, with a passionate fan base but a borderline competent ownership and an outdated stadium into a multi billion dollar success story. But what is really incredible he did exactly the same thing with Liverpool of the English Premier League. Love him or hate him, I simply would never bet against John Henry.

[Kimmi]

He made a lot of very good to great moves and signings beyond just 2018. Like you,I think he went beyond what was needed or practical- overkill, if you wish, but he does deserve more than just a little credit for building the 2028 mega team.

 

Giving him credit does not absolve him of any blame or culpability all those moves created or caused. His tenure, here, was a mixed bag of good and bad- much like the GMs before him, but maybe to more of an extreme.

 

The hard part is trying to determine how much the good outweighs the bad or vice versa. I suspect this board will never agree on the end result of that calculation. IMO, he's about a push. The ring justifies a lot, if not all, of the mess we are in, now. I'm pretty sure you feel otherwise. Others think he was a huge plus.

 

 

Most of the moves that he made were only possible because of the state that the team was in when he came on board. He acquired top players by paying the most for them with resources that were provided by someone else. I can't give him a lot of credit for that. I could have done that.

[moonslav59]

Most of the moves that he made were only possible because of the state that the team was in when he came on board. He acquired top players by paying the most for them with resources that were provided by someone else. I can't give him a lot of credit for that. I could have done that.

 

I'm not downplaying the point that he nearly emptied the farm and left us in a mess, but he made a lot of trades and signings that were very good to excellent- not all were bonanza FA signings and trades involving top prospects. The Pearce and Eovaldi deals were not the only good ones.

 

You, yourself have said than most of his deals- taken by themselves- were good one, but it was the totality of them all that was the major issue.

 

Yes, any GM can sign big free agents, when given so many blank checks. Any GM can trade away prospects, and many do, but not all build a team like 2018.

 

We are paying the price for 2018, right now, but that sure was a glorious season.

Edited October 25, 2020 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not downplaying the point that he nearly emptied the farm and left us in a mess, but he made a lot of trades and signings that were very good to excellent- not all were bonanza FA signings and trades involving top prospects. The Pearce and Eovaldi deals were not the only good ones.

 

You, yourself have said than most of his deals- taken by themselves- were good one, but it was the totality of them all that was the major issue.

 

Yes, any GM can sign big free agents, when given so many blank checks. Any GM can trade away prospects, and many do, but not all build a team like 2018.

 

Some GM's totally screw up in that position. It's never guaranteed that your moves will be the right ones.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Some GM's totally screw up in that position. It's never guaranteed that your moves will be the right ones.

 

People seem to forget the magic or genius or combination of both in assembling and running the 2018 champs during the season. The first-place Red Sox actually cut their Opening Day #3 hitter, then traded for a part-time DH and inserted him into the #3 slot. He became the World Series MVP. They also traded for an oft-injured #4 starting pitcher, who became the mound star of the postseason.

 

Every move seemed to go their way, including pinch hitters or platoon players who consistently came through in the playoffs until they won rings. You can't call it all luck, since Dombrowski and Cora were making deliberate decisions in the best interests of winning... that worked.

[Kimmi]

I'm not downplaying the point that he nearly emptied the farm and left us in a mess, but he made a lot of trades and signings that were very good to excellent- not all were bonanza FA signings and trades involving top prospects. The Pearce and Eovaldi deals were not the only good ones.

 

You, yourself have said than most of his deals- taken by themselves- were good one, but it was the totality of them all that was the major issue.

 

Yes, any GM can sign big free agents, when given so many blank checks. Any GM can trade away prospects, and many do, but not all build a team like 2018.

 

We are paying the price for 2018, right now, but that sure was a glorious season.

 

I am not denying how great 2018 was. I just think the credit for that season belongs much more to Theo and Ben than it does to Dave.

 

Also, I said that I am okay with any of the moves, taken by themselves, that Dombrowski made, not that they were necessarily good moves. But to clarify, I'm not saying that we did not get good players from these moves. We got some very good or great players. I am just not impressed with any GM acquiring a big name player by paying the highest price for him.

 

Show me the shrewd, small market moves. Then I'll be impressed.

[Kimmi]

People seem to forget the magic or genius or combination of both in assembling and running the 2018 champs during the season. The first-place Red Sox actually cut their Opening Day #3 hitter, then traded for a part-time DH and inserted him into the #3 slot. He became the World Series MVP. They also traded for an oft-injured #4 starting pitcher, who became the mound star of the postseason.

 

Every move seemed to go their way, including pinch hitters or platoon players who consistently came through in the playoffs until they won rings. You can't call it all luck, since Dombrowski and Cora were making deliberate decisions in the best interests of winning... that worked.

 

If you are including me as part of the 'people', once again, I give Dombrowski full credit for all the moves he made in 2018.