2020 Trade Deadline

[Larry Cook]

Is hang’em Chaim working the phones?

 

We have some bodies to move in the next 10 days.

 

Pillar can help some team,

Moreland can help some team.

Evioldi can help some team.

Perez can help some team.

Palwicki can help some team.

 

Brice, Weber, mazza and hall can pick up trash on the side of the road!

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The SOX have been able to win 2 championships in each decade of this millennium. There's plenty of time to win 2 more in this current decade. This is what optimism looks like.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The SOX have been able to win 2 championships in each decade of this millennium. There's plenty of time to win 2 more in this current decade. This is what optimism looks like.

 

Of course, some may say this is what crazy looks like.

[oldtimer]

That's what moonslav was talking about in the post you responded to...

 

He pointed out core players and then others. It wasn't all about core players.

[oldtimer]

A 17 year old that may never hit professional pitching.

 

What a bunch of negative thinkers. He's in our system, he is moving up the prospect list, he is a young guy with potential. He may or may not hit ML pitching. I would hope he will make it. I don't expect much from him until 2023. Lets hope some of our prospects make the cut, otherwise why have prospects at all.

[notin]

Now that's funny. It was Benny Blanco of course, played by John LeGuizamo (SIC), with Luis Guzman playing Judas in that scene.

 

Always Luis Guzman...

[notin]

What a bunch of negative thinkers. He's in our system, he is moving up the prospect list, he is a young guy with potential. He may or may not hit ML pitching. I would hope he will make it. I don't expect much from him until 2023. Lets hope some of our prospects make the cut, otherwise why have prospects at all.

 

Of course we need prospects. But the attrition level in A ball is extremely high. Really right now all we have on the near horizon is Mata, Duran and Dalbec. And Dalbec is blocked and getting a bit old to still be considered a prospect...

[moonslav59]

Of course we need prospects. But the attrition level in A ball is extremely high. Really right now all we have on the near horizon is Mata, Duran and Dalbec. And Dalbec is blocked and getting a bit old to still be considered a prospect...

 

Is 2022 the "near horizon?"

 

It's only about 200 games away.

 

Look, I agree our best prospects are farther away than 2021, and our top draft picks from this year and next will be even farther away, but if I end up wrong on Casas, Ward and Mata, someone else will likely surprise us with a strong showing. Plus, some of the "farther away" prospects could be traded (not that I want them to be).

 

I don't agree with soxprospects.com's projection of Casas and Downs being starters in 2022, but they may contribute some by the end of 2022.

 

Here's our top prospects by age (soxprosects ranking):

 

(Remember DHern is 22, Devers 23, Verdugo 24 & Chavis 24. They are younger than several of our current prospects.)

 

25 Dalbec 5, Chatham 14

24 Houck 10, Wong 17, Wilson 26

23 Song 4, Duran 7, Ward 9, Feltman 28, Aybar 29

22 Downs 2, Groome 8, Murphy 16, Zeferjahn 18, Cannon 21, Arauz 25, Castellanos 30

21 Mata 3, Bello 22, Liu 23

20 Casas 1, Jimenez 6, Decker 20

19 Lugo 12, A Ramirez 15, J Rodriguez 24, Flores 27

18 Yorke 11, B Brainer 19

17 Jordan 13

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Is 2022 the "near horizon?"

 

It's only about 200 games away.

 

Look, I agree our best prospects are farther away than 2021, and our top draft picks from this year and next will be even farther away, but if I end up wrong on Casas, Ward and Mata, someone else will likely surprise us with a strong showing. Plus, some of the "farther away" prospects could be traded (not that I want them to be).

 

I don't agree with soxprospects.com's projection of Casas and Downs being starters in 2022, but they may contribute some by the end of 2022.

 

Here's our top prospects by age (soxprosects ranking):

 

(Remember DHern is 22, Devers 23, Verdugo 24 & Chavis 24. They are younger than several of our current prospects.)

 

25 Dalbec 5, Chatham 14

24 Houck 10, Wong 17, Wilson 26

23 Song 4, Duran 7, Ward 9, Feltman 28, Aybar 29

22 Downs 2, Groome 8, Murphy 16, Zeferjahn 18, Cannon 21, Arauz 25, Castellanos 30

21 Mata 3, Bello 22, Liu 23

20 Casas 1, Jimenez 6, Decker 20

19 Lugo 12, A Ramirez 15, J Rodriguez 24, Flores 27

18 Yorke 11, B Brainer 19

17 Jordan 13

 

 

In a couple years, Jordan will win the home run crown and Yorke will lead the league in runs scored. It's not unprecedented, and they don't have to be Hall of Famers...

 

... at age 20, Tony Conigliaro won the AL HR crown with 32, and Vada Pinson led the NL with 131 runs scored (I know, I didn't specify which league Jordan and Yorke will pace).

 

Lugo will be taking Pedro over the Monster in BP warm-ups for the Old Timers' Game.

[notin]

Is 2022 the "near horizon?"

 

It's only about 200 games away.

 

Look, I agree our best prospects are farther away than 2021, and our top draft picks from this year and next will be even farther away, but if I end up wrong on Casas, Ward and Mata, someone else will likely surprise us with a strong showing. Plus, some of the "farther away" prospects could be traded (not that I want them to be).

 

I don't agree with soxprospects.com's projection of Casas and Downs being starters in 2022, but they may contribute some by the end of 2022.

 

Here's our top prospects by age (soxprosects ranking):

 

(Remember DHern is 22, Devers 23, Verdugo 24 & Chavis 24. They are younger than several of our current prospects.)

 

25 Dalbec 5, Chatham 14

24 Houck 10, Wong 17, Wilson 26

23 Song 4, Duran 7, Ward 9, Feltman 28, Aybar 29

22 Downs 2, Groome 8, Murphy 16, Zeferjahn 18, Cannon 21, Arauz 25, Castellanos 30

21 Mata 3, Bello 22, Liu 23

20 Casas 1, Jimenez 6, Decker 20

19 Lugo 12, A Ramirez 15, J Rodriguez 24, Flores 27

18 Yorke 11, B Brainer 19

17 Jordan 13

 

 

For minor leaguers in A ball, 2022 is not "near horizon". Especially for those not playing in 2020.

 

you listed 29 minor leaguers, all but 7 of whom have never played above A ball, and one of those 7 (Downs) has 12 games at that level. How many actual major leaguers do you think are in that crowd? The bulk of them will never never get out of AA ball, assuming they get there at all.

 

Now that does not mean they are useless. The Sox will deal a few hopefully, for actual MLB talent.

 

But by 2022, out of that list of 29, I would suspect the only ones to actually play in MLB would be Dalbec, Mata, Duran, Houck, and maybe Wilson.

[moonslav59]

For minor leaguers in A ball, 2022 is not "near horizon". Especially for those not playing in 2020.

 

you listed 29 minor leaguers, all but 7 of whom have never played above A ball, and one of those 7 (Downs) has 12 games at that level. How many actual major leaguers do you think are in that crowd? The bulk of them will never never get out of AA ball, assuming they get there at all.

 

Now that does not mean they are useless. The Sox will deal a few hopefully, for actual MLB talent.

 

But by 2022, out of that list of 29, I would suspect the only ones to actually play in MLB would be Dalbec, Mata, Duran, Houck, and maybe Wilson.

 

Ward, Chatham & Wong will likely get some time in the bigs by 2022. Feltman- maybe, if he improves.

 

I mentioned Downs and Casa as possible mid season 2022 contributors, which may be a stretch, agreed.

[notin]

Ward, Chatham & Wong will likely get some time in the bigs by 2022. Feltman- maybe, if he improves.

 

I mentioned Downs and Casa as possible mid season 2022 contributors, which may be a stretch, agreed.

 

OK let's include Wong and Chatham. If you think Casas, Ward and Downs join the crowd, that leaves us with 9 potential MLB players. No way I include Feltman. Not yet and not until he learns where the strike zone is.

 

Of course, not all will actually make it and a significant portion of them will probably suck as well. So then, out of these 9, how many actual contributors do you have? It's almost impossible to tell if an A ball player is an MLB contributor. It does happen, but more often than not, it simply cannot be foreseen. For every Mike Trout or Bryce Harper, there is an innumerable quantity of Lars Anderson/Jesus Montero types.

 

And the fun subset is, out of the contributors, how many contribute in Boston vs for other teams?

[oldtimer]

Is 2022 the "near horizon?"

 

It's only about 200 games away.

 

Look, I agree our best prospects are farther away than 2021, and our top draft picks from this year and next will be even farther away, but if I end up wrong on Casas, Ward and Mata, someone else will likely surprise us with a strong showing. Plus, some of the "farther away" prospects could be traded (not that I want them to be).

 

I don't agree with soxprospects.com's projection of Casas and Downs being starters in 2022, but they may contribute some by the end of 2022.

 

Here's our top prospects by age (soxprosects ranking):

 

(Remember DHern is 22, Devers 23, Verdugo 24 & Chavis 24. They are younger than several of our current prospects.)

 

25 Dalbec 5, Chatham 14

24 Houck 10, Wong 17, Wilson 26

23 Song 4, Duran 7, Ward 9, Feltman 28, Aybar 29

22 Downs 2, Groome 8, Murphy 16, Zeferjahn 18, Cannon 21, Arauz 25, Castellanos 30

21 Mata 3, Bello 22, Liu 23

20 Casas 1, Jimenez 6, Decker 20

19 Lugo 12, A Ramirez 15, J Rodriguez 24, Flores 27

18 Yorke 11, B Brainer 19

17 Jordan 13

 

 

My hope is that we can graduate 3 to 4 player prospects a year to the majors and fill the rest of the openings through trade or Free Agency. Notin has suggested Mata, Dalbec and Duran as likely 2021 call ups. The point is we need to keep stocking our minors with prospects who can be developed into MLers. Who are the likely ones for 2022? Casas, Downs and Ward?

[notin]

My hope is that we can graduate 3 to 4 player prospects a year to the majors and fill the rest of the openings through trade or Free Agency. Notin has suggested Mata, Dalbec and Duran as likely 2021 call ups. The point is we need to keep stocking our minors with prospects who can be developed into MLers. Who are the likely ones for 2022? Casas, Downs and Ward?

 

Moonslav has 9 names as candidates for making MLB by 2022. Doubtful all so. There could be a flop or two, or an injury that derails or inhibits progress, etc.

 

But the names:

 

Dalbec: Blocked in Boston by Devers and Chavis. Good defensive 3B with a cannon arm but a Three True Outcome hitter at the plate. Likely traded.

Mata: Sox need arms. I'm hoping he debuts this season.

Chatham: Had a decent season at the plate in Pawtucket last year. Ready for MLB. Glove will play but bat is a potential issue. Probably a utility infielder, and that is not a position the Sox (or most teams) struggle to fill.

Houck: Like Mata, it would be nice to see him this season, most likely out of the bullpen. Maybe he gets called up if the Sox move Workman and/or Barnes.

Wong: Not sure what his future holds at all. Versatile player who is weak defensively everywhere. Decent hitter, but is it enough to make up for his lack of position? Maybe trade bait, with some appeal to small market clubs?

Ward: Hopefully he debuts in AA in 2021. We shall see from there.

Downs: Needs to get back into AA and do something

Casas: See Ward above.

Duran: A big question mark offensively in my mind. His BABIP made him look stellar in A ball, but he was exposed in AA. What is working for him best is the weakness of outfield prospects in the Sox system

Wilson (a late addition): Is he MLB talent? I could see him peaking in AAA and maybe being an occasional call up, but no one we remember 5 years from now.

 

The fun part is there is sometimes that player who just figures something out and rises from nowhere to become a legit prospect. Do the Sox have anyone like this? Can, say, Nick Decker finally put together a decent season? Can Jay Groome finally stay healthy for once?

[moonslav59]

I've always liked Dalbec, and certainly more than Chavis, but it is certainly unclear if he might be someone we "build around" or call our "core." I probably should not have used the word "core," but what I meant was that they are who I consider "keepers" as much as I think nobody is really untouchable.

 

My guess is Wong becomes our #2 catcher at some point in 1-2 years. (Not really a "core" position)

 

IMO, our best chances are Ward, Downs, Casas and Mata with Jimenez & Song close.

 

I'm not high on Duran, Groome or Houck, but one could surprise.

 

By the end of 2021 or 2022, this could be our core:

 

Devers

Bogey

Verdugo

Sale

 

DHern

Casas

Downs

Ward

Mata

 

That's a 9 player core from within our current system. We'll have JD, Eovaldi, Beni & Vaz for 2021 & 2022, but they could be gone afterwards, so I don't count them as "core" to our long term future. Maybe for 2022, we can count these 4 and have 13 that one year.

 

Of course, we'll likely have in-system role players like Dalbec/Chavis, Wong, Lin/Chatham and guys like Duran or Wilson, but I would not guess any of them become "core," except maybe Dalbec.

 

We may be lucky to have 10-11 solid players from our current system for 2023. Hopefully, our farm will look better, and we'll have several players looking ready for 2024>>.

 

We have a lot of serious acquisitions to make to get us out of "cliff" status, but we should have $70+M to spend, this winter and some more after 2021.

 

[harmony]

The Phillies reportedly have spoken with Red Sox about Brandon Workman:

 

 

Would anyone trade Workman for 22-year-old lefthander Erik Miller, the Phillies' 11th-ranked prospect?

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=miller007eri

 

Phillies Top Prospects | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The Official Site of Major League Baseball

 

Miller and my older daughter shared a birthday at Stanford (although he's two years younger).

[Swiharts Ghost]

The Phillies reportedly have spoken with Red Sox about Brandon Workman:

 

 

Would anyone trade Workman for 22-year-old lefthander Erik Miller, the Phillies' 11th-ranked prospect?

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=miller007eri

 

Phillies Top Prospects | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The Official Site of Major League Baseball

 

Miller and my older daughter shared a birthday at Stanford (although he's two years younger).

 

Lot of smoke out there about VAZ getting traded .The contract is desirable and coming off a fantastic year ? Need a big return maybe a starter .Maybe Bloom keeps Evoldi ? Don’t see why though he’s having a great year strike while iron hot chaim

Edited August 21, 2020 by Swiharts Ghost

[harmony]

The Phillies reportedly have spoken with Red Sox about Brandon Workman:

 

 

Would anyone trade Workman for 22-year-old lefthander Erik Miller, the Phillies' 11th-ranked prospect?

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=miller007eri

 

Phillies Top Prospects | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The Official Site of Major League Baseball

 

Miller and my older daughter shared a birthday at Stanford (although he's two years younger).

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/08/phillies-trade-rumors-bullpen-brandon-workman-red-sox.html

[notin]

The Phillies reportedly have spoken with Red Sox about Brandon Workman:

 

 

Would anyone trade Workman for 22-year-old lefthander Erik Miller, the Phillies' 11th-ranked prospect?

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=miller007eri

 

Phillies Top Prospects | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The Official Site of Major League Baseball

 

Miller and my older daughter shared a birthday at Stanford (although he's two years younger).

 

Does she throw harder?

[moonslav59]

Trade 'em all.

 

(I'm not joking.)

[Bellhorn04]

Trade 'em all.

 

(I'm not joking.)

 

Well, you can't be serious, so what are you then?

[moonslav59]

Workman should be traded for the best we can get, even if it doesn't seem like enough. He's a FA after this year, so bye-bye. JBJ is likely untradeable, but if we kicked in some cash, maybe we'd get something. Pillar might get us something- maybe more in a package.

 

I'm not sure how much Eovaldi's stock has risen, but if we can dump his salary, I'd trade him in a flash.

 

I like Vaz a lot, but the numbers he gets with the staff have not been as good as Leon's were.

 

Next to Pedey, Vaz has the longest tenure with the Sox than anyone else. He's got 2 years left after this, but if we think we will not be highly competitive in 2021, one could view him as only having one "meaningful" season left before free agency. I'd trade him, but only if the offer was a good one.

 

I'd trade everyone who will be a FA after next year, except ERod, since he's hurt: Moreland, Barnes, Hembree & Perez.

 

I don't see JD as part of our long term plans. I'd add some cash, if we could get something useful for him. (Freeing up budget space could help us add younger players to the budget.)

 

The only players on the 40 man roster I would not actively seek trading, although I'd listen to offers on anyone, would be Devers, Bogey, Verdugo and Sale. (ERod)

 

 

[moonslav59]

Well, you can't be serious, so what are you then?

 

A serious prankster?

[Tedballgame]

Its begun: Workman and Hembree traded to the Phillies.

[mvp 78]

Official: The Red Sox traded Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree and cash considerations, along with a player to be named later or cash considerations to the Phillies for RHP Nick Pivetta and minor league RHP Connor Seabold.

[mvp 78]

Realized they finally needed starters.

[Spudboy]

Oye. Pivetta is a 5 at best. High ERA and WHIP guy. What a bargain. Hope the prospect has value because this look stupid otherwise.

[Larry Cook]

Oye. Pivetta is a 5 at best. High ERA and WHIP guy. What a bargain. Hope the prospect has value because this look stupid otherwise.

 

Phillies were close to the max on payroll. I am sure priveta figures in that somehow.

[notin]

Phillies were close to the max on payroll. I am sure priveta figures in that somehow.

 

He’s making $588,000. Three arb years left. Free agent after 2023...

[Swiharts Ghost]

Oye. Pivetta is a 5 at best. High ERA and WHIP guy. What a bargain. Hope the prospect has value because this look stupid otherwise.

 

Actually seabold looks legit to me .So this is an under the radar move for a guy Chaim obviously coveted.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Swiharts Ghost