2020 Trade Deadline

[notin]

There are basically two ways to win big in baseball . 1 - You can obtain and develop enough young players until ( hopefully) they ripen into stars . 2- You can spend what it takes to acquire top talent through free agency and trades . Either method can succeed or fail . As a rule, method number two, spending , is more likely to win pennants and championships. However , it may not be as much fun for the armchair G.M.s.

 

The problem with Method 2 is that when it fails - and it absolutely will one day - it will ruin your franchise for years...

[jad]

The problem with Method 2 is that when it fails - and it absolutely will one day - it will ruin your franchise for years...

 

But the problem with Method 1 is that you get rid of your best players, making the team bad (as now), with no certainty that any of the young ones will pan out. Most fans find winning pennants and championships more fun than watching young players MAYBE becoming stars (only to be traded away when they finally do).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There are basically two ways to win big in baseball . 1 - You can obtain and develop enough young players until ( hopefully) they ripen into stars . 2- You can spend what it takes to acquire top talent through free agency and trades . Either method can succeed or fail . As a rule, method number two, spending , is more likely to win pennants and championships. However , it may not be as much fun for the armchair G.M.s.

 

Good post. For those who blame the cliff on Dombrowski, would anyone trade 2018 so the next half decade would be good but not great? Think of 1988 through 1995, three division title teams that never once won 90 games... solid clubs but clearly not championship caliber.

 

How long will it take Bloom to restock the farm and develop the right amount of above-average players who will help the Sox "sustain contention"? More importantly, how long will a current ownership accustomed to quick turnaround and banners be willing to wait before it inevitably starts throwing Betts' money at lesser free agents?

 

Dombro came in, saw an immediate need for an ace, and signed Price. He then was able to use prospects to trade for the best closer available in Kimbrel, another All-Star starter in Pomeranz, and finally, the best pitcher in the AL at the time in Sale. In the title push, he added Eovaldi. Sure, there's always a cost for talent -- and the Sox may be better off right now if they still had Logan Allen, Michael Kopech and Jalen Beeks... but World Series contenders?

[Bellhorn04]

There are basically two ways to win big in baseball . 1 - You can obtain and develop enough young players until ( hopefully) they ripen into stars . 2- You can spend what it takes to acquire top talent through free agency and trades . Either method can succeed or fail . As a rule, method number two, spending , is more likely to win pennants and championships. However , it may not be as much fun for the armchair G.M.s.

 

Method 3 is a balance of these two, and is actually the one that has been most successful, I believe.

[oldtimer]

Method 3 is a balance of these two, and is actually the one that has been most successful, I believe.

 

Of course you need to use a mix of both to succeed. The amount of each used depends on where you are as a franchise. Right now we have a weak farm, but that doesn't mean there is no talent. Our pitching is poor, party due to picking up somewhat older or injury prone guys, and bad luck. We have had little luck developing young pitchers and the ones that looked good we traded away. We are saddled with overhung contracts that probably won't return in value what we have into them.

 

The good news is if the CBT resets, we will get attractive draft picks. That is something we haven't had in a while. We will also be in a position to spend more and we do have a young core of position players.I don't expect Bloom to turn this around quickly and will be pleased if we take steps to improve the team,, including strengthening the farm. I certainly hope there won't be long term contracts given to players past their prime. Pedroia's will be gone soon and maybe we can trade Eovaldi's away. Sale;s will be with us..

[jad]

The problem with tanking for a better draft position is that the difference between 1st and last in the draft is not that great. By being first (as opposed to last), you effectively get one free player; then the draft starts and you pick last on every ensuing round. That is not the difference between a championship and a crappy year UNLESS you get lucky. (And if you're lucky, draft order hardly matters at all.)

[jacksonianmarch]

Top 5 is far more beneficial not only due to the talent available in the top 5, but due to the immense draft pool

[Swiharts Ghost]

The problem with tanking for a better draft position is that the difference between 1st and last in the draft is not that great. By being first (as opposed to last), you effectively get one free player; then the draft starts and you pick last on every ensuing round. That is not the difference between a championship and a crappy year UNLESS you get lucky. (And if you're lucky, draft order hardly matters at all.)

 

I don’t think we are in that horrible a shape in 21 I’m sorry .I do think they must move Devers off 3b guys an absolute Butcher over there and I’m not convinced he’s great at 1b either ...he’s a DH on my team but who knows ? I do think Devers has a very real possibility to be traded after his lack of both physical conditioning and the lack of ability to improve his fielding .I know we all Love Rafy the player and person but realistically we love that bat when it’s locked and loaded .Rafy to 1b DH makes one JDM tradebait secured .Benny needs to be traded the kid still has name recognition and lots of players have had rough starts to this shortened season .Benny should be packaged with Evoldi in my opinion to get a starter on the cusp we need a solid number 3 behind Sale and Erod this is the trade that may warrant a team to roll the dice this deadline or sweeten the offer with Connor Wong as a three for 1 and get the guy we need .JBJ well here we are again lol the guy is a world on to himself .JBJ I’m keeping ,,,yup we will need this plus glove he’s just to damn valuable in my opinion as a CF at Fenway and on the road so he’s my CF again in 21.Brings up Pillar and yes I’m trading pillar.,,,,,,Now comes a painful trade Mitch .Mitch is maybe the team leader for this group but this group will not resemble the current crop soon so Mitch Gets traded to who ever he wants to go to he earned it in my opinion .....flame away .Next year Xander ,Devers ,Vaz ,Verdugo,JBJ with Dalbac taking over at 3b with the kid we just signed ex Ray and Sanfran 3b backing him up .Devers moves to 1b with Dalbac backing him up .Next up chavis ....what is Chavis ? Don’t know really don’t understand this player which scares the hell out of me ...I hate his glove love the power but will he be a consistent hitter ? I just don’t know .Chavis is on the block. Peraza on the Block I’m playing Arauz the remainder of the year at 2b it’s sink or swim time he’s cheap and we can DFA in off season .I transition Devers immediately to 1B DH now .The Farm is very light with Pitching we can address some this trade deadline but not much ...We need to maximize the one or two big deals for a starter for the21 season .The Farm has Thad Ward,Mata ,Groome .Thad Ward is a future number 3 at worst and by late 21 we will know .Jeter Downs ,Bobby D ,Casas ,Wong are all good players .Casas at 1b Downs 2b Xander and Dalbac ???? Does Chaim go early on these guys for 21 ? Maybe ? Likely not why rush it 22 is the year we are back .I keep Taylor Dhern Hembre See if we can get Brice to improve why not try Groome in the pen ? See I’m not even remotely concerned as many at the state of this team I think it’s trade time and Chaim must capitalize NOW .2021 will be rough until Sale comes back so we have to get someone back in this deadline to solidify the rotation who will only consist of EROD .1 free agent starter .Redsox win 91 games in 21 Redsox win the World Series in 22. This winter I’m targeting Marcus semian to play 3b if we trade BD and Trevor Baur as a starter .Erod Sale Baur with an infield of Semien Xander Arauz Casas And Devers as DH 1b .Outfield Verdugo JBJ Free Agent ? ?if semien or Xander agree to switch positions can we trade Jeter Downs ?

Edited August 16, 2020 by Swiharts Ghost

[jacksonianmarch]

Your sorry farm isn’t likely to help you as much as you think.

[dgalehouse]

Method 3 is a balance of these two, and is actually the one that has been most successful, I believe.

 

Method 3 would be best , in an ideal world. But it is tough to do . Acquiring top talent often requires parting with prospects. And continued success results in worse draft picks .

[moonslav59]

Good post. For those who blame the cliff on Dombrowski, would anyone trade 2018 so the next half decade would be good but not great? Think of 1988 through 1995, three division title teams that never once won 90 games... solid clubs but clearly not championship caliber.

 

How long will it take Bloom to restock the farm and develop the right amount of above-average players who will help the Sox "sustain contention"? More importantly, how long will a current ownership accustomed to quick turnaround and banners be willing to wait before it inevitably starts throwing Betts' money at lesser free agents?

 

Dombro came in, saw an immediate need for an ace, and signed Price. He then was able to use prospects to trade for the best closer available in Kimbrel, another All-Star starter in Pomeranz, and finally, the best pitcher in the AL at the time in Sale. In the title push, he added Eovaldi. Sure, there's always a cost for talent -- and the Sox may be better off right now if they still had Logan Allen, Michael Kopech and Jalen Beeks... but World Series contenders?

 

I blame Dombro for the cliff AND I would not trade 2018 for the next half decade.

 

They are not mutually exclusive of each other.

 

I do think, Dombro went to far, but we won, and we may not have without him going all out. Sure, we can look back and say this deal or that deal was not needed to win in 2018, but that's really not fair, IMO.

 

We got the ring, and now we pay the price.

 

I'm hopeful Bloom can turn us around quickly, but I'm assuming the purse strings will be loosened, this winter.

 

We have a nice core of team-controlled players in their prime or nearing it and a few good prospects that may help in the next 1-3 years, but we'll be needing Bloom to be near flawless in his wheeling and dealings.

 

I'd start now. Trade everyone who is a FA, this winter and look hard at those who will be next winter. Even if the return seems light, anything is better than nothing.

 

The core of Devers, Bogey, Verdugo is pretty good.

 

Sale, ERod and DMart may help, next year.

 

I was for dealing Walden & Beni back when, but I'm not sure it's worth it, now.

I'd keep Dalbec over Chavis.

I'm not all that high on Duran, but I'm no expert on prospects.

I like DHern, Mata and a few other prospects, and hopefully, with the near top draft pick, this year, we can stock the farm back up quickly. The Betts trade gave it a boost, but we could use some infusion.

 

Our 40 man roster is only about 20 deep with true talent. That's the worst I've seen it in decades.

[notin]

But the problem with Method 1 is that you get rid of your best players, making the team bad (as now), with no certainty that any of the young ones will pan out. Most fans find winning pennants and championships more fun than watching young players MAYBE becoming stars (only to be traded away when they finally do).

 

No. Method 2 is the one where you sometimes cannot afford your best players. It was the contracts of Eovaldi, Price and Sale that made Betts unaffordable, not the development of Devers, Benintendi and Vazquez...

[Bellhorn04]

No. Method 2 is the one where you sometimes cannot afford your best players. It was the contracts of Eovaldi, Price and Sale that made Betts unaffordable, not the development of Devers, Benintendi and Vazquez...

 

Betts may have been deemed unaffordable no matter what. When they offered him 310 million, maybe they had a ceiling price of 330-340 million in mind. When he came back with 420 million they knew it was adios.

 

John Henry actually said at one point they expected to be able to keep 2 of Betts, Bogaerts & Sale but not all 3. That turned out to be the case.

[Sox75]

The keys were handed to Bloom. Henry has influence, sure, but Bloom has the keys. Henry and Bloom need to sit down and assess the direction of the club. If they go full on rebuild with a pretty rough minor league system and a team that is full of broken down parts, then it would behoove them to deal off Devers and Bogey. There is no point in having 2 stars on your roster if your team finishes in the basement. It will also depend on how hard Henry wants to fight to keep Devers. Henry is the one who tried to sign Betts and he was not successful. You want a generational talent before through and unfortunately after prime, you have to pay them like one. Devers is a generational talent. He's a hitting master with power for days who will get better offensively. The issue you have with Devers that you didn't with Betts is that Devers has a very thick lower half and has the build of a guy who will get large long term and would end up at 1b. Do you want to bet on Devers as a 35-36-37 yr old being productive? Or will he turn into a Pujols or Cabrera? That is something they need to assess. Because the return for him would be enormous and if done correctly, could kick start the next dynasty. Remember, Bloom is okay with drafting, but is next level when it comes to dealing off All-Star talent.

 

i like Devers. I think he has growth potential, and has 1 very good season under his belt.

 

"A generational talent?"

 

10 year deal? Maybe on the cheap?

[Swiharts Ghost]

Your sorry farm isn’t likely to help you as much as you think.

 

Oooooooh touch a nerve???? Lol hey Jax nice try bud I know you bleed pinstripes The farm is thin in starting pitching sure but can we talk Jax ? As bad as the Redsox are where would we be if Sale Erod Evoldi this year ? Tapping that Yankee ass is where buddy so let’s not get ahead of ourselves there pal .Hows Stanton and your tree doing lol yikes ....you won’t win it even in a season built just for your house of cards team ...Paxson ? Tanaka ? Coooooome on Jax you guys are not much sorry .Have fun though on our board this sad sack of a year can’t end soon enough .The Redsox have excuses though buddy what’s yours going to be by October .....to bad so sad bye bye boooooo hooooo again man lol

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Betts may have been deemed unaffordable no matter what. When they offered him 310 million, maybe they had a ceiling price of 330-340 million in mind. When he came back with 420 million they knew it was adios.

 

John Henry actually said at one point they expected to be able to keep 2 of Betts, Bogaerts & Sale but not all 3. That turned out to be the case.

 

Two things we may never know the truth to: 1). if Betts wanted out of Boston, as suggested by Michael Holley; 2). who really signed Sale, since it was Henry who said at the time he didn't want to repeat the Lester mistake.

 

I don't think anyone is in favor of keeping a system well-stocked with prospects and not be willing to deal some of them for pieces to win a World Series. Pitching is always a premium, but the majority of key arms in all of Boston's titles this century were acquired via trades or free agency; the entire starting rotations and ace closers in '18 and '04 were imports, as were most in '07 and '13... major homegrown hurlers included Papelbon in '07, Buccholz in '13, and Lester in both years -- and that's about it (guys like Barnes, Workman, Delcarmen and Dubront contributed).

 

Spending is what won for the Red Sox, but less on free agent arms and more on scouting, drafting and signing draft picks and then flipping a lot of those prospects for pitchers others teams could no longer afford. MLB draft and salary rules have changed in the past decade, and now Bloom is here. Where the Sox seemed to hit on every acquisition a few years ago, so have the Yankees in the past year. No one should be surprised if roles reverse yet again in another two years.

[Larry Cook]

There is no shortcut to building a championship caliber team.

 

1.) you must a farm system that continuously produces quality major league players. You have to be strong up the middle, have quality pitching and depth, and play quality defense at every position.

 

2.) you augment that with strategic short term free agents and a occasional major signing.

 

For us, it is s a complete rebuild.

 

First we have to restock the minor league system and this will take a few years.

 

Second, we have to draft and develop starting pitchers.

 

Third, we have to employ the best coaches and teachers throughout the minor league system so our kids develop properly.

 

Thus far, hang’em Chaim has shown me that he can get us where we need to be in everything, except his ability to evaluate starting pitching.

[notin]

Method 3 would be best , in an ideal world. But it is tough to do . Acquiring top talent often requires parting with prospects. And continued success results in worse draft picks .

 

Method 3 is the ONLY way, especially if you believe having a good farm system = small market.

 

Heavy spending is actually a proven deathnail. I know a lot of people say they’re ok with the inevitable bad years if they get one title, but they do one mean it. Want proof? Read any thread on this board. And then ask yourself how many times a complaint has ended with the phrase “But 2018 made it all worthwhile”....

[Nick]

Method 3 is the ONLY way, especially if you believe having a good farm system = small market.

 

Heavy spending is actually a proven deathnail. I know a lot of people say they’re ok with the inevitable bad years if they get one title, but they do one mean it. Want proof? Read any thread on this board. And then ask yourself how many times a complaint has ended with the phrase “But 2018 made it all worthwhile”....

 

I'll take 2018-2020 over .500 seasons all three years any day.

[Nick]

There is no shortcut to building a championship caliber team.

 

1.) you must a farm system that continuously produces quality major league players. You have to be strong up the middle, have quality pitching and depth, and play quality defense at every position.

 

2.) you augment that with strategic short term free agents and a occasional major signing.

 

For us, it is s a complete rebuild.

 

First we have to restock the minor league system and this will take a few years.

 

Second, we have to draft and develop starting pitchers.

 

Third, we have to employ the best coaches and teachers throughout the minor league system so our kids develop properly.

 

Thus far, hang’em Chaim has shown me that he can get us where we need to be in everything, except his ability to evaluate starting pitching.

 

On your second point of drafting and developing starting pitchers, I heard a collective......."yeah, that's it, what the hell have we been thinking?

"

[notin]

I'll take 2018-2020 over .500 seasons all three years any day.

 

 

Id actually take three straight 95 win seasons with no titles over the 2018 team and this dumpster fire.

 

Titles are great, but I really just want to be entertained. This team is not entertaining me....

[notin]

There is no shortcut to building a championship caliber team.

 

1.) you must a farm system that continuously produces quality major league players. You have to be strong up the middle, have quality pitching and depth, and play quality defense at every position.

 

2.) you augment that with strategic short term free agents and a occasional major signing.

 

For us, it is s a complete rebuild.

 

First we have to restock the minor league system and this will take a few years.

 

Second, we have to draft and develop starting pitchers.

 

Third, we have to employ the best coaches and teachers throughout the minor league system so our kids develop properly.

 

Thus far, hang’em Chaim has shown me that he can get us where we need to be in everything, except his ability to evaluate starting pitching.

 

... with nothing to spend? Seriously?

 

All he had budget for was one mediocre SP (Perez) and some long shots. And that’s the thing about long shots. They miss more often than not..

[dgalehouse]

It's not that complicated. The teams with the best players are more successful. The best players make more money . The teams that spend more money have a better shot at pennants and championships. I know we all love the occasional small market , small time Cinderella success story , but there is still a harsh reality to face . And I don't think there is a single owner who cannot afford to spend more .

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Id actually take three straight 95 win seasons with no titles over the 2018 team and this dumpster fire.

 

Titles are great, but I really just want to be entertained. This team is not entertaining me....

 

The Angels suck, too, this year -- 7-14; are they more entertaining than Boston? Some people like to argue vociferously that Mike Trout doesn't make a difference on a team without pitching, but wouldn't it be more fun to watch him every night than just about any other player?

 

Would Mookie -- he of the high-risk, low-gravity frame (destined to break down any year now) -- make a difference if the Sox kept him? For those who believe in WAR -- and since Betts once again leads the MLB in WAR -- Boston would have about two more wins by now. At least those two games would have been more entertaining...

[Noles_1335]

I love how everyone is expecting Sale to be reincarnated after TJ.... we all know that delivery has and always will put a lot of stress on that elbow! So..... what if he is not “Sale” in 2021, what if ERod doesn’t return to form or has more complications with the heart? The staff is right back to the clown rotation we have now! Bloom has to move on from some of the “ talent” we have now regardless of how many Sox fans feelings get hurt! This team needs future arms that can be depended on! Ghost has it right here... Devers is the kicker. Move him to 1B or some DH. Bring up BD and see if he’s the future at 3B! Plan for what’s next

[dgalehouse]

Obviously, fan interest is important. More important than anything else . After all , MLB is a part of the entertainment industry. Nothing generates more fan interest than an outstanding, championship caliber team . And that costs money.

[notin]

The Angels suck, too, this year -- 7-14; are they more entertaining than Boston? Some people like to argue vociferously that Mike Trout doesn't make a difference on a team without pitching, but wouldn't it be more fun to watch him every night than just about any other player?

 

Would Mookie -- he of the high-risk, low-gravity frame (destined to break down any year now) -- make a difference if the Sox kept him? For those who believe in WAR -- and since Betts once again leads the MLB in WAR -- Boston would have about two more wins by now. At least those two games would have been more entertaining...

 

The Sox would definitely be more entertaining with Betts. They’d still suck, however, because you need a few Mookie Betts’s to overcome this pitching staff...

[notin]

Obviously, fan interest is important. More important than anything else . After all , MLB is a part of the entertainment industry. Nothing generates more fan interest than an outstanding, championship caliber team . And that costs money.

 

You can’t say the Sox don’t spend. They have the third highest payroll in MLB...

[Sox75]

If we let it, not going all out to sign Mookie could signal a long slide into irrelevancy.

 

Sox need to hang on to what we have, target pitching, and deal a few guys after they get back to normal... i.e. Beni, JBJ, & a few others.

 

Bogie, JBJ, Devers, stay.

We really Fd up letting Mookie go.

[Larry Cook]

We really need Pittsburgh to start winning more games!

 

They stand between us and rocker!