2020 MLB Season Thread

[Kimmi]

The most confusing team is the Phillies. They went out and got bullpen help, but they have the second worst record in the NL. They might consider selling over buying..

 

It's curious. I wonder how many of their losses have come at the hands of their bullpen. In other words, could they possibly turn it around if they strengthened their pen?

 

Once you get past the top 2 teams in each NL division, the rest of the teams are below .500. From my quick glance, it looks like the Phillies are only 1.5 games out of the 2nd wildcard spot. That says a lot considering they have the 2nd worst record in the NL.

[Kimmi]

When the Sox are like this it takes much of the excitement out of the season. The Rays have a good team and a certain " underdog " appeal . In the N.L. , I always root for the Cubs . I see them as the N.L. version of the Sox , right down to the finally broken "curse " .

 

I'm not a fan of the Rays, but will certainly pull for them over the Yankees.

 

I have jumped on the Padres bandwagon for this season. I also like the Braves.

[Thunder]

I'm not a fan of the Rays, but will certainly pull for them over the Yankees.

 

I have jumped on the Padres bandwagon for this season. I also like the Braves.

 

I'm right there with you on the Padres bandwagon. I've been quietly rooting for them since they hired Orsillo, if I'm being honest

[Kimmi]

I'm right there with you on the Padres bandwagon. I've been quietly rooting for them since they hired Orsillo, if I'm being honest

 

Good deal! I wish Manny Machado wasn't on the team, but oh well.

[Thunder]

Good deal! I wish Manny Machado wasn't on the team, but oh well.

 

Eh, my love of Tatis more than compensates for it. I've forgiven Machado for spiking Pedroia. I know that's not all he did. We also gave him his medicine in 2018, so I'm happy about that

[notin]

Eh, my love of Tatis more than compensates for it. I've forgiven Machado for spiking Pedroia. I know that's not all he did. We also gave him his medicine in 2018, so I'm happy about that

 

Imagine the White Sox had they not traded Tatis. Put him in the infield with Moncada and Anderson with Jimenez and Robert in the OF (and only Anderson above 25 years old). And Giolito, Cease and Kopech on the mound.

 

Ah but I'm sure they think James Shields was worth it...

[Thunder]

Imagine the White Sox had they not traded Tatis. Put him in the infield with Moncada and Anderson with Jimenez and Robert in the OF (and only Anderson above 25 years old). And Giolito, Cease and Kopech on the mound.

 

Ah but I'm sure they think James Shields was worth it...

 

Two things about that:

1) Either Tatis or Anderson would have to change position. A minor detail, but still worth pointing out

2) If the Shields trade never happens, there's a good chance the White Sox don't draft those same guys

[notin]

Two things about that:

1) Either Tatis or Anderson would have to change position. A minor detail, but still worth pointing out

2) If the Shields trade never happens, there's a good chance the White Sox don't draft those same guys

 

1. I was assuming it would be Anderson, but either one could take over 2B, which has been a weak position for the Sox the past few seasons.

2. Anderson was the only one they drafted and that was two years before they dealt Tatis. Luis Robert was an international free agent from Cuba. Moncada, Kopech (for Sale), Jimenez, Cease (for Quintana) and Giolito (for Eaton) were all acquired via trade....

[Thunder]

1. I was assuming it would be Anderson, but either one could take over 2B, which has been a weak position for the Sox the past few seasons.

2. Anderson was the only one they drafted and that was two years before they dealt Tatis. Luis Robert was an international free agent from Cuba. Moncada, Kopech (for Sale), Jimenez, Cease (for Quintana) and Giolito (for Eaton) were all acquired via trade....

 

Put their GM on the phone, please. That's pretty damn good work. At this point, I think the White Sox won the Sale trade

[notin]

Put their GM on the phone, please. That's pretty damn good work. At this point, I think the White Sox won the Sale trade

 

Not until it gets them a title. And it very well might one day...

[notin]

Put their GM on the phone, please. That's pretty damn good work. At this point, I think the White Sox won the Sale trade

 

To be fair, Hahn broke up a pretty good team to make those deals. When you deal 3 good players who are all on ridiculously cheap contracts like he did, you damn well better get back some serious quality...

[Thunder]

Not until it gets them a title. And it very well might one day...

 

Long term, they are better set up for success. I don't view titles as the only measure of a winning/losing trade

[notin]

Long term, they are better set up for success. I don't view titles as the only measure of a winning/losing trade

 

It’s got to be a factor if the other team wins one

[Thunder]

It’s got to be a factor if the other team wins one

 

Correct, but we won 108 games, so clearly Sale wasn't the ONLY reason we won a championship. It's more about added value to each team

[moonslav59]

I loved the Chris Sale trade, as everyone knows.

 

We gave up a lot to get him, and the CWS deserved a lot in return.

 

Remember, we should not count the Sale extension as part of the trade. I'd say, at this point, both sides did well in the trade.

 

Yes, one could argue we would have, probably would have or likely would have won without Sale, but I would not be so sure. Plus, to win a ring, GMs often have to go for the overkill, knowing some moves will not pan out, but enough will. In hindsight, it's easy to point out this one or that one as not being essential, and be totally correct, but Monday morning quarterbacking is always easy.

 

I've always believed DD went overboard, but if he won a ring, it would be worth it. We did, and it was. It would be hard for me to piss on DD now that the cliff is here. I knew what the sacrifice made was and was okay with it contingent on a ring. It sucks, now, but the piper needed to be paid.

 

I think Bloom is the right guy for the new job facing us. It's not an easy task. He's starting from a place no other Sox GM has started from since before Dan Duquette. He deserves some extra slack, IMO. He should be given a 5 year plan, but he's likely expected to compete in 2-3 years and seriously compete in 3-4 years. Is that fair? Probably not, but being and judging a GM is hardly ever "fair."

 

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I loved the Chris Sale trade, as everyone knows.

 

We gave up a lot to get him, and the CWS deserved a lot in return.

 

Remember, we should not count the Sale extension as part of the trade. I'd say, at this point, both sides did well in the trade.

 

Yes, one could argue we would have, probably would have or likely would have won without Sale, but I would not be so sure.

 

 

It's easy to forget now, because of his ill-advised extension and TJ, but Chris Sale put Boston over the top. Sale was the best pitcher in the AL and absolutely dominated in '17 and '18 like no Red Sox pitcher since Pedro. The All-Star Game starter both years, Sale was the perfect ace addition to an already first-place team and good veteran starting core with Cy Young winners Porcello and Price.

 

It can't be emphasized enough -- the lift a great pitching acquisition gives to a contender: the confidence he gives to the defense every night he toes the rubber, the heat he takes off the offense that knows it can relax and swing at the right pitches to produce enough runs, the rest he provides the bullpen arms, the inspiration he supplies to fellow starters. Think how much better Boston was when Schilling joined Martinez, Lowe and Wakefield.

 

In the actual '18 postseason, Sale wasn't as good as Eovaldi or Price or Kelly, but his presence can never be overrated... whether it was his profanity-laced rant that rallied the dugout in WS Gm 4 or the standing ovation the staff gave him as he left the pen to close out Gm 5.

[mvp 78]

Sale was the second best pitcher in the league per fWAR for 2017 - 2018. You don't get that by giving up b level prospects.

 

Not sure if he'll ever get back to being close to that guy, but he's a very hard worker and could at least finish his contract as a quality #2 like latter day Bret Saberhagen (i.e. 98-99). I do that same trade knowing what I do now.

 

The only trade you really want to take back is the Travis Shaw/Dubon for NPC Reliever #2 (Thornburg).

[notin]

Correct, but we won 108 games, so clearly Sale wasn't the ONLY reason we won a championship. It's more about added value to each team

 

I would think that trade worked out for both teams, which is how it is supposed to be in theory. Whether or not Chicago "won" it is really imamterial. The Red Sox got what they wanted and got a title. The White Sox got more years of control of high upside players and greatly improved their team long term, which they wanted. That the White Sox are getting better production now than the Red Sox was inherent in the design of that trade.

 

It was about as perfect of a trade as you will find for both teams...

[notin]

It's easy to forget now, because of his ill-advised extension and TJ, but Chris Sale put Boston over the top. Sale was the best pitcher in the AL and absolutely dominated in '17 and '18 like no Red Sox pitcher since Pedro. The All-Star Game starter both years, Sale was the perfect ace addition to an already first-place team and good veteran starting core with Cy Young winners Porcello and Price.

 

It can't be emphasized enough -- the lift a great pitching acquisition gives to a contender: the confidence he gives to the defense every night he toes the rubber, the heat he takes off the offense that knows it can relax and swing at the right pitches to produce enough runs, the rest he provides the bullpen arms, the inspiration he supplies to fellow starters. Think how much better Boston was when Schilling joined Martinez, Lowe and Wakefield.

 

In the actual '18 postseason, Sale wasn't as good as Eovaldi or Price or Kelly, but his presence can never be overrated... whether it was his profanity-laced rant that rallied the dugout in WS Gm 4 or the standing ovation the staff gave him as he left the pen to close out Gm 5.

 

The funny thing is, the White Sox made a few completely nondescript signings in the 2015-16 offseason that made the Sale trade and the current White Sox roster possible.

 

The 2015 White Sox were actually a pretty good team with some of the best-valued contract extensions in the league, especially the dirt cheap contracts for Sale, Jose Quintana, and Adam Eaton. They broke up that team primarily because of the tirades of Sale and Eaton, who were angry about team president Kenny Willams' decision to no longer let Adam LaRoche's son Drake travel with the team and be part of the clubhouse. LaRoche himself had a few issues with ADD, a condition that became uner public scrutiny a couple years prior when, while playing 1B for Atlanta, he fielded a groundball from Ryan Braun and just stood there holding the ball while Braun and his pitcher converged on the bag. Some stories have indicated that having his son around was a calming influence that helped LaRoche do his best to remain focused, and the White Sox (including Williams himself) ok'd Drake LaRoche to be around the team all year and travel with them and hang out in the clubhouse.

 

But that 2015-16 offseason, the White Sox added three free agents - Brett Lawrie, Mat Latos, and Todd Frazier. According to some reports, one of these three complained about Drake LaRoche being with the team all the time, leading to Williams reneging on his agreement. LaRoche then promptly retired from baseball, and this lead to the notable ire and tirades against Williams and the White Sox organization from Sale and Eaton (including the famous jersey-shredding incident), whereupon Williams traded them both.

 

I always figured it to be Brett Lawrie who complained, as he had a reputation for being a serious prima donna. But I heard someplace else, I forget where, that it was Mat Latos. Either way, Williams and GM Rick Hahn were forced to dismantle the team with the subsequent trades of Sale and Eaton, and eventually Quintana, who was apparently only dealt to complete the fire sale. And in the process, he gave a major piece to the 2016-2018 three time AL East Champion Red Sox.

 

Thank you, Mat Latos. Or Brett Lawrie...

Edited August 25, 2020 by notin

[Thunder]

Sale was the second best pitcher in the league per fWAR for 2017 - 2018. You don't get that by giving up b level prospects.

 

Not sure if he'll ever get back to being close to that guy, but he's a very hard worker and could at least finish his contract as a quality #2 like latter day Bret Saberhagen (i.e. 98-99). I do that same trade knowing what I do now.

 

The only trade you really want to take back is the Travis Shaw/Dubon for NPC Reliever #2 (Thornburg).

 

Well, Travis Shaw hasn't exactly lived up to his potential either. Still much better than Thornburg I suppose

[notin]

Well, Travis Shaw hasn't exactly lived up to his potential either. Still much better than Thornburg I suppose

 

Shaw gave the Brewers two excellent seasons in which he OPS .844 and hit 63 home runs. Thornburg gave the Sox 43 innings with an ERA of 6.54...

[mvp 78]

Well, Travis Shaw hasn't exactly lived up to his potential either. Still much better than Thornburg I suppose

 

Thornburg had -.3 bWAR while he was here.

 

Dubon already is at 0.7 bWAR. Shaw has had 6.2 bWAR since leaving the Sox.

[Thunder]

Thornburg had -.3 bWAR while he was here.

 

Dubon already is at 0.7 bWAR. Shaw has had 6.2 bWAR since leaving the Sox.

 

Well butter my rump and call me toast...

[mvp 78]

@MandyBell02

Chris Antonetti said he called Zach Plesac after the decision was made to have Mike Clevinger start tomorrow and he explained to Plesac that they don't have an opportunity for him at this time at the Major League level.

[Bellhorn04]

Daniel Bard's amazing comeback continues. Now the Rockies' closer. Great story.

[Kimmi]

Daniel Bard's amazing comeback continues. Now the Rockies' closer. Great story.

 

Great story indeed. I'm very happy for him.

[Kimmi]

I know the Sox haven't been very exciting to watch most of the time, but there is a lot of good and exciting baseball going on in this wacky season. The expanded playoffs have really kept most teams in the hunt.

 

There's a good race going on in the AL Central for first place. The Phillies have pulled themselves up to 2nd in their division.

 

IMO, the story of this season so far is the Padres. The White Sox are also up there.

 

Go Baseball!

[dgalehouse]

People do fall in love with the young prospects. In Chris Sale , the Sox got one of the premier pitchers in the game . Yoan Moncada has settled into being a pretty good , but not exceptional ballplayer. Michael Kopech is sitting out yet again while still living off his reputation as the next Nolan Ryan . He has a grand total of 1 major league victory to date . Sometimes these kids are really not worth falling in love over.

[Kimmi]

People do fall in love with the young prospects. In Chris Sale , the Sox got one of the premier pitchers in the game . Yoan Moncada has settled into being a pretty good , but not exceptional ballplayer. Michael Kopech is sitting out yet again while still living off his reputation as the next Nolan Ryan . He has a grand total of 1 major league victory to date . Sometimes these kids are really not worth falling in love over.

 

I find it much more fulfilling to watch homegrown players, that we drafted and developed, than to watch players that we sign as free agents. However, a big reason to have a strong farm is to be able to trade for players like Sale. There is a sense of accomplishment in going that route also.

 

FTR, I am not at all against trading players to fill a need. I am against trading players away excessively, to the point where it takes a top 3 farm system and makes it a bottom 3 farm system in less than 2 years.

 

My least favorite way of acquiring a player is to throw the most money at a superstar in a monster contract.

[dgalehouse]

I find it much more fulfilling to watch homegrown players, that we drafted and developed, than to watch players that we sign as free agents. However, a big reason to have a strong farm is to be able to trade for players like Sale. There is a sense of accomplishment in going that route also.

 

FTR, I am not at all against trading players to fill a need. I am against trading players away excessively, to the point where it takes a top 3 farm system and makes it a bottom 3 farm system in less than 2 years.

 

My least favorite way of acquiring a player is to throw the most money at a superstar in a monster contract.

 

I feel that prospects have two uses . One : To fill your present or future needs . Two : To trade for someone who can fill those needs . I have no problem trading them when the opportunity is there and the return is significant .