A Realistic View at 2020: Part II

[notin]

If we are looking forward to 2021-22, what does our lineup look like and what will the front end rotation look like? I’m all for moving Devers and building around XB and Downs in the middle!

 

Sale and ERod?

[Nick]

I thought the whole point of 2020 was to reset the luxury tax. I want see if there are any keepers out of new signings.

[mvp 78]

I thought the whole point of 2020 was to reset the luxury tax. I want see if there are any keepers out of new signings.

 

Not good enough for some people.

[moonslav59]

Devers is the player to build around, IMO.

 

Keep Bogey and Sale, since we are not likely to get much for Sale, and Bogey only has prime years left on his deal.

 

We aren't looking at a 5 year rebuild. No way.

 

We should be able to turn this around by 2021 or 2022, especially if we go over the luxury tax line, next year.

 

If anyone should be traded, it should be players that become FAs after this year or next. Those players are:

 

After 2020:

JBJ

Pillar

Workman

 

After 2021:

ERod (if we can't extend him)

Barnes

Hembree

 

I'd even explore trading JD. He may not be much help on his last year of his deal in 2022.

 

One could argue trading them for the best we can get, even if the return is not equal. Just get controllable- low cost players in return and strengthen the bottom of our 40 man roster and the farm.

[Noles_1335]

Deal Devers for legitimate young pitching, shift X and sign Lindor -- the morbid Sox will really need a jolt, and who could change the culture more than a top-5 talent and future Hall of Famer with a bigger smile than Mookie's. Signing Lindor will also keep him out of pinstripes or LA blue.

 

Love it..... I don’t know why some on here are dead set on keeping Devers! I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see his D improving and he will become a bonafide DH and wants a Mookie/Trout deal. Lindor would be huge and the jolt needed if we have the pitching to do with him!

[moonslav59]

Love it..... I don’t know why some on here are dead set on keeping Devers! I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see his D improving and he will become a bonafide DH and wants a Mookie/Trout deal. Lindor would be huge and the jolt needed if we have the pitching to do with him!

 

His D improved by leaps and bounds, last year.

 

It just doesn't show, this year.

[notin]

Love it..... I don’t know why some on here are dead set on keeping Devers! I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see his D improving and he will become a bonafide DH and wants a Mookie/Trout deal. Lindor would be huge and the jolt needed if we have the pitching to do with him!

 

Lindor is far, far more likely than Devers to merit a Mookie/Trout type deal....

[mvp 78]

Devers is expecting 300M? Says who?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Lindor is far, far more likely than Devers to merit a Mookie/Trout type deal....

 

Yup, but since I totally expect Boston to shell out big bucks for someone to compensate -- after a few years of damage to the turnstiles due to suckitude -- I'd rather they go all out on a true star. I'd rather not replace Pedro with Matt Clement again.

 

The thing I worry about with Devers longterm isn't so much his D but his LBs -- which already seem to have an affect on performance, even at his young age. An eventual shift to first, and maybe Prince Fielder status, seem to loom.

Edited July 29, 2020 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[moonslav59]

3 games in and you guys wanna blow it up. I get it, don’t get me wrong, but if the conviction going into the season was to ride it out, then it’s too early to blow it up.

 

But if you were to blow it up, you’ve lost your best trade chip. ERod was your best trade chip and now that his heart is damaged (even if it’s not permanent, crossing fingers), he’s not tradeable for 2020.

 

Workman would be a great trade chip, but you’re assuming he’s going to be a dominant force and worthy of a trade. His track record coming into 2019 was not good, so he needs to prove he’s not a flash in the pan. If he isn’t, then he should return a pretty high ransom. Relievers in this sprint season will be very valuable, so I’d expect a few good prospects or maybe even a top 100 in return to restock the farm.

 

Barnes needs to prove 2019 was a fluke. If he is crushing it at deadline time, dealing him would make tons of sense and should rebuild the farm.

 

JD is a big time trade chip, although he comes with the uncertainty that he’d opt out, so teams looking for 2 more years of control would be wary of offering a lot.

 

JBJ has a good first two games, but he’s going to need to stay relatively hot (for him) to be worth more than a flier by Aug 31.

 

I wanted to trade the FAs to be since last summer.

 

Trading Devers after 5 bad games is laughable.

[Noles_1335]

I wanted to trade the FAs to be since last summer.

 

Trading Devers after 5 bad games is laughable.

 

Devers will continue to fight the LB’s and if he’s not hitting like last year he’s just a good player that will expect too much! Hell, Dalbec might hit well enough to push Devers out of 3rd if ever given the chance! I’m sure his D will be above avg! Keep XB and build... move JD and all others that can bring future talent back! If that means moving XB back to 3rd and signing Lindor... roll with it! Hey, a guy can dream!

[Larry Cook]

Devers is the player to build around, IMO.

 

Keep Bogey and Sale, since we are not likely to get much for Sale, and Bogey only has prime years left on his deal.

 

We aren't looking at a 5 year rebuild. No way.

 

We should be able to turn this around by 2021 or 2022, especially if we go over the luxury tax line, next year.

 

If anyone should be traded, it should be players that become FAs after this year or next. Those players are:

 

After 2020:

JBJ

Pillar

Workman

 

After 2021:

ERod (if we can't extend him)

Barnes

Hembree

 

I'd even explore trading JD. He may not be much help on his last year of his deal in 2022.

 

One could argue trading them for the best we can get, even if the return is not equal. Just get controllable- low cost players in return and strengthen the bottom of our 40 man roster and the farm.

 

Doesn’t Martinez have an opt out ability after this Season? And doesn’t his pay go down next season if he stays?

 

Why wouldn’t he opt out after this season!

[moonslav59]

Doesn’t Martinez have an opt out ability after this Season? And doesn’t his pay go down next season if he stays?

 

Why wouldn’t he opt out after this season!

 

Because he won't get nearly as much as the Sox will pay him, especially in this economy.

 

Pay some of his salary and trade him, or get some salary in return to offset some of his cost.

 

JD could put some team over the top, this fall.

[Larry Cook]

Because he won't get nearly as much as the Sox will pay him, especially in this economy.

 

Pay some of his salary and trade him, or get some salary in return to offset some of his cost.

 

JD could put some team over the top, this fall.

 

Amen brother!

[Larry Cook]

Did the Braves release foltinientz?

 

Hang’em Chaim needs to sign that kid. Even if his velocity is down, he is way better than some of our pitchers.

[illinoisredsox]

Did the Braves release foltinientz?

 

Hang’em Chaim needs to sign that kid. Even if his velocity is down, he is way better than some of our pitchers.

 

Have to let him clear waivers though. Take him now and you pay his whole $6.5M contract. Sign him if he clears and you only have to pay the minimum salary and the Braves pick up the rest.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I wanted to trade the FAs to be since last summer.

 

Trading Devers after 5 bad games is laughable.

 

I suggested trading Devers last winter -- but only if they were going to keep Betts. Of the two -- because of the latter's insistence on testing free agency (oops) -- Devers would've brought more of a legitimate haul, like good pitchers. I also felt Mookie was a better longterm investment because of his consistent conditioning and production.

 

Now, the team is so bad that Bloom may have to consider anything and anyone. I trust he realizes -- as should we all -- that this historically bad pitching has been decimated less by bargain pick-ups and more by bad luck: Sale's TJ, and the virus casualties. After all, Covid sidelined our 2019 ace and two best young relievers.

[oldtimer]

The Sox are already headed for the cellar. Our better players will soon be disillusioned, if not already. Start planning for 2021 and beyond. This thread is supposed to depict a realistic view of 2020, even if the realism is tough to take. Some steps that should be taken:

 

1. Look to trade players who still have some value but are unlikely to fit our needs in 2021 and probably more importantly 2022.

 

2. Bring up our best prospects, give them big league experience while evaluating their ML potential'

 

3. Minor L pitching especially needs to be looked at.

 

4. Give Chavis and Beni enough PT to decide if they will fill a at least two roster spot in future years. If we want to build a champion, we need championship quality players

 

5. Evaluate Roenicke. He is in a tough spot, but is he the guy who can manage a future team to a championship.

 

6. Adjust our thinking as fans and realize we will need at least 2 years to build a really competitive team.

[notin]

The Sox are already headed for the cellar. Our better players will soon be disillusioned, if not already. Start planning for 2021 and beyond. This thread is supposed to depict a realistic view of 2020, even if the realism is tough to take. Some steps that should be taken:

 

1. Look to trade players who still have some value but are unlikely to fit our needs in 2021 and probably more importantly 2022.

 

2. Bring up our best prospects, give them big league experience while evaluating their ML potential'

 

3. Minor L pitching especially needs to be looked at.

 

4. Give Chavis and Beni enough PT to decide if they will fill a at least two roster spot in future years. If we want to build a champion, we need championship quality players

 

5. Evaluate Roenicke. He is in a tough spot, but is he the guy who can manage a future team to a championship.

 

6. Adjust our thinking as fans and realize we will need at least 2 years to build a really competitive team.

 

1. The potential free agents are Workman and Bradley. History has shown that position players don’t net great returns at the deadline, so JBJs hot start probably matters little. Relievers, on the other hand, typically net great returns. Roenicke needs to get Workman some IP.

 

2. I don’t see the rush, or the harm here.

 

3. No. Minor league pitching needs to be acquired. The Sox have what, maybe 3 or 4 pitchers capable of pitching a full season of MLB in the entire minor league system.

 

4. Chavis should be trade bait. Benintendi signed a cheap extension, and was extremely good in 2018. One bad year plus 4 games shouldn’t put him on the block.

 

5. Roenicke looks dumb, but he’s been dealt a truly horrible hand. He has a good history as a manager in Milwaukee.

 

6. How? And why? Next year, if ERod and Sale are back, this team starts looking solid again. The biggest thing the Sox need is for the season to reach August 31, so the reset matters. Otherwise, look for similar issues in 2021, although the pitching might not be this horrid...

[mvp 78]

I suggested trading Devers last winter -- but only if they were going to keep Betts. Of the two -- because of the latter's insistence on testing free agency (oops) -- Devers would've brought more of a legitimate haul, like good pitchers. I also felt Mookie was a better longterm investment because of his consistent conditioning and production.

 

Now, the team is so bad that Bloom may have to consider anything and anyone. I trust he realizes -- as should we all -- that this historically bad pitching has been decimated less by bargain pick-ups and more by bad luck: Sale's TJ, and the virus casualties. After all, Covid sidelined our 2019 ace and two best young relievers.

 

The good news about Bloom is that he's part of an organization that has moved young stars at the height of their value (Longoria/Myers). Maybe he can judge the best ceiling of guys like Beni and Devers and determine when he gets the right trade offer to jump on?

[notin]

The good news about Bloom is that he's part of an organization that has moved young stars at the height of their value (Longoria/Myers). Maybe he can judge the best ceiling of guys like Beni and Devers and determine when he gets the right trade offer to jump on?

 

He also came from an organization that liked career minor leaguers (Anderson/Drake) in the bullpen, and it’s worked out spectacularly. Does that mean guys like Stock and Gonscalves might actually become worthwhile? Gotta say, the early returns on his “career minor leaguer” plan are not so good...

[mvp 78]

He also came from an organization that liked career minor leaguers (Anderson/Drake) in the bullpen, and it’s worked out spectacularly. Does that mean guys like Stock and Gonscalves might actually become worthwhile? Gotta say, the early returns on his “career minor leaguer” plan are not so good...

 

I think it's going to take some time to figure out the best usage of some of the guys, if any.

[notin]

To make the Betts deal questionable

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pitching-starved-red-sox-refused-150646165.html

[a700hitter]

To make the Betts deal questionable

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pitching-starved-red-sox-refused-150646165.html

Oye! Does Bloom know anything about pitching?

[notin]

Oye! Does Bloom know anything about pitching?

 

I liked getting Verdugo. But I loved the deal when Graterol was involved.

 

But to be fair, Bloom did help make a very good pitching staff in Tampa. I just think he dropped tha ball here...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I liked getting Verdugo. But I loved the deal when Graterol was involved.

 

But to be fair, Bloom did help make a very good pitching staff in Tampa. I just think he dropped tha ball here...

 

I didn't have a problem with the Sox rejecting Graterol if they suspected he was damaged goods. But I had and have a huge problem they didn't insist on another legitimate pitching prospect.... from the Dodgers' actual system. For Bloom to have to agree to someone from a third party in the first place tells me how desperate Boston was to unload Price. As far as how much LA really wanted Betts -- well, I think we know now that Friedman wasn't just doing his old pal a favor.

 

Bloom coulda and shoulda demanded pitching.

[a700hitter]

I liked getting Verdugo. But I loved the deal when Graterol was involved.

 

But to be fair, Bloom did help make a very good pitching staff in Tampa. I just think he dropped tha ball here...

Did he ever pick up the ball?

[moonslav59]

I have to agree. LA had a surplus of young pitching. We should have demanded one, even if it meant no Verdugo.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I have to agree. LA had a surplus of young pitching. We should have demanded one, even if it meant no Verdugo.

 

I think Verdugo and a pitcher or two are worth 13 years of Mookie.

[moonslav59]

I think Verdugo and a pitcher or two are worth 13 years of Mookie.

 

Well, it was only for one year (actually 2 months) at much less money.