Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[notin]

Yeah, Taijuan Walker in particular seems a low risk, possible high(ish) reward.

 

That said, his velocity is down in the workouts for teams, apparently.

 

He is also garnering a lot of interest, which makes getting him ore difficult.

 

Frankly, if I want to gamble an oft-injured pitcher who is just as likely to sit out the entire season as he is to do anything of use, I would go for Arodys Vizcaino. He's more likely to handle the reduced role, and he is probably a lower risk in terms of what it will take to get him here.

 

And there has been zero buzz about him. Although that might mean everyone except me knows there is already something wrong with him...

[moonslav59]

At this point, losing Porcello and Price.... Evo and Sale are question marks. This rotation and pitching staff might be under a severe rebuild.

 

I was against re-signing Porcello, but had I known we'd have this much budget space after dealing Price, I would have been okay with it, especially the one year deal.

[notin]

Betts purported salary demands basically puts any team that would sign him in danger of exceeding the lux tax if they wish to have the supporting cast to field a competitive team. Sign him now or later it doesn't matter. At a likely 35+ million per year represents a nearly plus 15% of the salary cap invested in one player. Any team must realize that with Betts you will likely exceed the lux tax if you wish to be competetive.

 

Yes, but exceeding the tax for the first year i a lot less painful than doing it 4 years in a row. You might not like the luxury tax, and it might not even exist in 2021, but it does exist in 2020 and Henry apparently does not like it that much. I get why he wanted to reset, and I cannot complain about his sudden frugality as as an owner. The man has been dropping some serious coin on my entertainment...

[a700hitter]

He is also garnering a lot of interest, which makes getting him ore difficult.

 

Frankly, if I want to gamble an oft-injured pitcher who is just as likely to sit out the entire season as he is to do anything of use, I would go for Arodys Vizcaino. He's more likely to handle the reduced role, and he is probably a lower risk in terms of what it will take to get him here.

 

And there has been zero buzz about him. Although that might mean everyone except me knows there is already something wrong with him...

He was a big prospect for a few years and he has had flashes of promise and brilliance for short periods, but at what point does he become an also ran? I wouldn't take a chance on him unless it was for very cheap $.

[notin]

I was against re-signing Porcello, but had I known we'd have this much budget space after dealing Price, I would have been okay with it, especially the one year deal.

 

Martin Perez (1.9 fWAR) seems like he is an adequate replacement for Porcello (1.8 fWAR) and signed for less money....

[a700hitter]

Martin Perez (1.9 fWAR) seems like he is an adequate replacement for Porcello (1.8 fWAR) and signed for less money....

Perez is equal to Porcello in almost every way, but he doesn't have Porcello's most valuable trait -- durability.

[notin]

He was a big prospect for a few years and he has had flashes of promise and brilliance for short periods, but at what point does he become an also ran? I wouldn't take a chance on him unless it was for very cheap $.

 

Walker? I would too for the right money.

 

But I wonder how low the money will be with so many teams looking at him as a wild card. These oft-injured starting pitchers like Garrett Richards, Michael Pineda and Drew Smyly seem to be doing better in free agency than I would have anticipated, even if they are not expected to pitch at all in the upcoming season.

 

I think Collin McHugh and Vizcaino probably represent some better value, although they are both far from certainties themselves. And Danny Salazar was an elite underrated arm before he got injured. (And by elite here, by some measures he was one of the best starting pitchers in MLB.)

 

But should the Sox gamble on of these high reward/super high risk arms? Or is someone who can potentially pitch 150 IP like a Jason Vargas, Marco Estrada, or Jeremy Hellickson more valuable to this team?

 

Or should Bloom go all in and try to get one of each?

[notin]

Perez is equal to Porcello in almost every way, but he doesn't have Porcello's most valuable trait -- durability.

 

That is a knock I agree with.

 

Possible Perez, whose cut fastball has been graded as high as Mariano Rivera's, is used in a reduced role behind an opener?

[a700hitter]

Walker? I would too for the right money.

 

But I wonder how low the money will be with so many teams looking at him as a wild card. These oft-injured starting pitchers like Garrett Richards, Michael Pineda and Drew Smyly seem to be doing better in free agency than I would have anticipated, even if they are not expected to pitch at all in the upcoming season.

 

I think Collin McHugh and Vizcaino probably represent some better value, although they are both far from certainties themselves. And Danny Salazar was an elite underrated arm before he got healthy. (And by elite here, by some measures he was one of the best starting pitchers in MLB.)

 

But should the Sox gamble on of these high reward/super high risk arms? Or is someone who can potentially pitch 150 IP like a Jason Vargas, Marco Estrada, or Jeremy Hellickson more valuable to this team?

 

Or should Bloom go all in and try to get one of each?

You are one of the few posters who correctly characterizes these pitching assets "high reward/super high risk". I don't know which way Bloom will go on this, but he has a huge rotation hole to fill. Maybe he takes one from column A (a 150 inning guy) and another from column B (an injury risk) as a depth move. He's in a tough spot.

[notin]

You are one of the few posters who correctly characterizes these pitching assets "high reward/super high risk". I don't know which way Bloom will go on this, but he has a huge rotation hole to fill. Maybe he takes one from column A (a 150 inning guy) and another from column B (an injury risk) as a depth move. He's in a tough spot.

 

I do like the idea of grabbing an oft-injured mega talent like Walker, Salazar, or Vizcaino. But yes, the Sox need an insurance policy if they do this.

 

There are no true innings eaters left in free agency, with the best examples being pitchers who have done it recently like the three guys I named. Or they could swing another deal assuming they have anything they can trade...

[jung]

The point you made had nothing to do with Sox marketing. You said Mookie would, and I quote, "go where he will be paid the most for the longest term and I am inclined to think that will not end up being us."

 

If the Sox kept him, does any of that change? I would argue that, if anything, the Sox have better positioned themselves to pay him the most for the longest term. Clearly, no guarantee that they will do that. But their ability to do so today actually exists, whereas it did not two days ago...

 

The chance that they are going to outbid other suiters for Mookie Betts is pretty slim with or without keeping him this year. I suggested keeping him would make sense because at least the Sox could make the case for potential greatness this year. That is it. That is all they get. But every year you can do that if you are the Red Sox matters.

 

I suspect the Sox are telling us they are going to build a different team than the JD/Mookie/Sale/Price/Beni/JBJ/X team. They will absolutely, positively keep X and Rafi, probably keep Vaz and build around them. They will keep Sale because they have to. If they don't think 2019 Erod is for real, they might off him as well. Verdugo might have a short stay here and go out the door also. Probably keep JD and keep him out of the outfield but they won't be all that protective of JD either. Would not be surprised to see JD not make it past some future trade deadline.

 

The Sox are certainly 1 year past their optimal Championship chances for now especially without Mookie. 4 championships in the 21st Century is a heck of an accomplishment. But we tend to view potential greatness as it relates to Championship chances now. That is a heck of a turnaround from where we were in the 1960's, 70's, 80's and 90's.

[Bellhorn04]

The chance that they are going to outbid other suiters for Mookie Betts is pretty slim with or without keeping him this year. I suggested keeping him would make sense because at least the Sox could make the case for potential greatness this year. That is it. That is all they get. But every year you can do that if you are the Red Sox matters.

 

Even if they kept Betts, I don't think too many people would have been gung ho about the 2020 team's chances to win the division, especially with the Yanks signing Cole.

[jung]

Even if they kept Betts, I don't think too many people would have been gung ho about the 2020 team's chances to win the division, especially with the Yanks signing Cole.

 

Now that I think about it, they are setting up a great year to bring up Castillo and see if they can hook somebody into his ridiculous contract except they are now on their last year of that mess. Heck I would be happy to off even a half year of that idiot.

[notin]

The chance that they are going to outbid other suiters for Mookie Betts is pretty slim with or without keeping him this year. I suggested keeping him would make sense because at least the Sox could make the case for potential greatness this year. That is it. That is all they get. But every year you can do that if you are the Red Sox matters.

 

I suspect the Sox are telling us they are going to build a different team than the JD/Mookie/Sale/Price/Beni/JBJ/X team. They will absolutely, positively keep X and Rafi, probably keep Vaz and build around them. They will keep Sale because they have to. If they don't think 2019 Erod is for real, they might off him as well. Verdugo might have a short stay here and go out the door also. Probably keep JD and keep him out of the outfield but they won't be all that protective of JD either. Would not be surprised to see JD not make it past some future trade deadline.

 

The Sox are certainly 1 year past their optimal Championship chances for now especially without Mookie. 4 championships in the 21st Century is a heck of an accomplishment. But we tend to view potential greatness as it relates to Championship chances now. That is a heck of a turnaround from where we were in the 1960's, 70's, 80's and 90's.

 

The counterargument becomes, while they had the potential for greatness, what were the realistic chances? The Red Sox won 85 games last year with Betts, and winning 85 games again is a lot more likely than winning 108 games again.

 

And then what? Betts would be gone for nothing but a draft pick. The Red Sox would still have Price, who has pitched 358 innings in the last 3 years combined. Will that total increase as he ages? Not likely. In 2018, the Red Sox got 334 IP from Sale and Price. Last year, they got 254. Neither total is really that impressive, but which direction do you anticipate that total heading. And I haven't even gotten in to Eovaldi and his durability issues yet...

[notin]

Now that I think about it, they are setting up a great year to bring up Castillo and see if they can hook somebody into his ridiculous contract except they are now on their last year of that mess. Heck I would be happy to off even a half year of that idiot.

 

I have thought about that. Possible, but not likely. But then I don't know where the Sox stand payroll wise right now, beyond that they are under the limit...

[Elktonnick]

Yes, but exceeding the tax for the first year i a lot less painful than doing it 4 years in a row. You might not like the luxury tax, and it might not even exist in 2021, but it does exist in 2020 and Henry apparently does not like it that much. I get why he wanted to reset, and I cannot complain about his sudden frugality as as an owner. The man has been dropping some serious coin on my entertainment...

And making a ton of money in the process. His investment in the Red Sox has appreciated 400%..

[Monster24]

An argument can be made that baseball wise this deal makes some sense.

PR wise things are about to get worse I’m afraid as Verdugos past (not sure we will ever know the full story) is coming to light.

[Elktonnick]

An argument can be made that baseball wise this deal makes some sense.

PR wise things are about to get worse I’m afraid as Verdugos past (not sure we will ever know the full story) is coming to light.

Verdugo could be one encounter with the right field wall or one sliding catch away from a long stretch on the injured list. I think there is a good chance we will see Castillo in the outfield after all.

[Bellhorn04]

I have thought about that. Possible, but not likely. But then I don't know where the Sox stand payroll wise right now, beyond that they are under the limit...

 

One semi-interesting question about Castillo is his status with the team for 2021. According to B-R, he's not even arbitration-eligible until 2023.

[TylerD]

Well, it's unfortunate but money rules the game now.

 

There wasn't quite so much complaining about it when the Sox had the highest payroll in the game the last 2 years...

 

People are always stunned when a World Series team loses a couple big players. This isn’t the first time it happened and it won’t be the last. Mookie asking for a 12 year contract is nerve wrecking. That’s a very long contract and anything can happen. Also if this Alex Verdugo is as good as people say, we didnt leave empty handed. It’s always a shock losing a great player like Mookie no doubt, but this team will build. I hate that he has left, but I’m a bit surprised there are so many people surprised that he was traded.

[Bellhorn04]

People are always stunned when a World Series team loses a couple big players. This isn’t the first time it happened and it won’t be the last. Mookie asking for a 12 year contract is nerve wrecking. That’s a very long contract and anything can happen. Also if this Alex Verdugo is as good as people say, we didnt leave empty handed. It’s always a shock losing a great player like Mookie no doubt, but this team will build. I hate that he has left, but I’m a bit surprised there are so many people surprised that he was traded.

 

Yep. And the people who say, why not just give him the 420 million, you know a lot of them would quickly change their tune if he had a bad season or got hurt.

[Monster24]

Verdugo could be one encounter with the right field wall or one sliding catch away from a long stretch on the injured list. I think there is a good chance we will see Castillo in the outfield after all.

Wasn’t referring to injury history but the assault he may have witnessed/ covered up as a minor leaguer

[S5Dewey]

No, I think the reason they kept JBJ was because they knew Mookie was quite possibly gone.

 

Yeah. I think somebody... somebody like ME...said some time ago that they were going to hold onto JBJ until they found out whether they could get a deal they like for Mookie - and I was roundly criticized for it.

 

It's a good thing I'm not the kind guy to say "I told you so!" :D

[harmony]

Wasn’t referring to injury history but the assault he may have witnessed/ covered up as a minor leaguer

https://highheelsonthefield.typepad.com/all_heels_on_deck/2019/02/dodgers-after-dark-the-sexual-assaults-mlb-never-investigated-a-teams-culture-unexamined.html

[Elktonnick]

https://highheelsonthefield.typepad.com/all_heels_on_deck/2019/02/dodgers-after-dark-the-sexual-assaults-mlb-never-investigated-a-teams-culture-unexamined.html

You have just given me yet another reason to question the wisdom of this trade. My intuition senses trouble ahead.

[Tedballgame]

Bloom now has some financial flexibility to make some moves to shore up the team. They still have Devers, Bogie, JDM, Benny, Verdugo, JBJ, Vazquez, Sale, E-Rod etc. They will contend in 2020 and beyond. It is not all doom and gloom like many are predicting. I'm excited to see how they do this year and beyond. After all the championships in the last 16 years (eat your heart out Jacko) we are playing with house money. Bloom helped make TB relevant with a small payroll. He will be better than Theo and DD before its all over.

[moonslav59]

Martin Perez (1.9 fWAR) seems like he is an adequate replacement for Porcello (1.8 fWAR) and signed for less money....

 

Yes, but I was talking about replacing Price. I'm fine with trying Graterol as a starter or even giving D Hern a chance to start.

 

I'm also fine with not trying to get someone else for 2020, but with some cap space, why not?

 

Also, if we get nobody else, might we see Rusney get a look?

[jad]

Tampa Bay may have been competitive, but they also have one of the lowest attendance rates in MLB. Is this the model of success the RS want to follow? Getting rid of your best players may be great for 'fantasy-ball' fans, but it's not great for fans who like to watch baseball and pay money to do so.

[mvp 78]

Tampa Bay may have been competitive, but they also have one of the lowest attendance rates in MLB. Is this the model of success the RS want to follow? Getting rid of your best players may be great for 'fantasy-ball' fans, but it's not great for fans who like to watch baseball and pay money to do so.

 

They have good tv ratings though.

[Monster24]

Tampa Bay may have been competitive, but they also have one of the lowest attendance rates in MLB. Is this the model of success the RS want to follow? Getting rid of your best players may be great for 'fantasy-ball' fans, but it's not great for fans who like to watch baseball and pay money to do so.

 

Fair point - if the Sox contend this year my son will be interested but not as much if Mookie was here and if they are bad not having Mookie may cause him to watch less.