2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[mvp 78]

 

I do I believe our veterans this is a f***ing witch hunt and only weak ass pussys role over .

[S5Dewey]

The word is the results of the Sox investigation will be out by the end of next week. Thats a good thing to put to bed. Maybe it won't be as severe a finding as the Astros was.

 

I've been patiently waiting for the investigation to be completed hoping that there would be no evidence of the Sox involvement but according to what Manfred said yesterday that timeline has now been changed. "He said that the report about the Boston Red Sox cheating in 2018 should be completed in several weeks..."

 

This is looking more and more to me like Manfred realizes that he can't find any 'smoking gun' regarding the Red Sox and rather than admit that he's going to wait until the season is underway and fans are focusing on their own teams before releasing any report. Then MLB can release a report saying that they found only minimum Red Sox involvement in any cheating, "minimum" meaning that they found one person who's the second cousin of of someone's ex-brother in law who said that he has solid evidence that the Sox were cheating - but 'unfortunately' they were unable to follow that lead down. That's "minimum".

 

C'mon, Manfred. If you've got something then spill it. If not say so, so we can put it behind us.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/02/16/rob-manfred-believes-astros-players-will-be-punished-through-public-reaction/23928096/

[Behindenemylines]

Don't you think that all the time this is taking suggests that Manfred is finding evidence for what pretty much every baseball fan and player knew all along? that sign-stealing is prevalent all through the league, and the Astros were only distinguished by (1) their sophistication (computer geeks decoding signs--which probably aren't thatt complex in the first place, given the mental capacities of pitchers and catchers), and (2) the crudeness of the execution. What he is also finding, unless he has blinders, is that all players KNEW sign-stealing was going on, as evidenced by the many many attempts to overcome it (remember the constant mound-visits of two years ago?) The shock and outrage expressed by some is ludicrous.

 

I think you are dead on! The constant changing of signs by pitchers and catcher, including the wrist bands that all teams had, kind of shows that it was wide spread throughout baseball. Every team had the video replay room, they were all using it to some extent. There have been a few out spoken players, but for the most part players aren’t speaker out because they know their team is doing it. The Astros just took a little to far. I also have a question, why did the Yankees hire Beltran for last season? What was his position? Why did the Mets?

[Elktonnick]

The Commissioner told Steve Buckley who reported in the Athletic that MLB investigators had to re interview some individuals based on new information which came to light.

I don't know if that is good or bad news for the Red Sox. I guess we will just have to wait for the investigation to be completed to learn which.

[Bellhorn04]

The Commissioner told Steve Buckley who reported in the Athletic that MLB investigators had to re interview some individuals based on new information which came to light.

I don't know if that is good or bad news for the Red Sox. I guess we will just have to wait for the investigation to be completed to learn which.

 

I see no possible way that can be good news.

[Slasher9]

I see no possible way that can be good news.

 

definitely bad news. based on AC being a big part of the 2017 Astros sign stealing scheme and the success that brought (see: parade) i would imagine that a very very very similar methodology was utilized by the 2018 Red Sox under WTF's tutelage.....

[Elktonnick]

I see no possible way that can be good news.

While I tend to agree, I guess it depends on whom they decided to re interview. If it were a JD Martinez for example then I would be really concerned since he denied any sign stealing.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think you are dead on! The constant changing of signs by pitchers and catcher, including the wrist bands that all teams had, kind of shows that it was wide spread throughout baseball. Every team had the video replay room, they were all using it to some extent. There have been a few out spoken players, but for the most part players aren’t speaker out because they know their team is doing it. The Astros just took a little to far. I also have a question, why did the Yankees hire Beltran for last season? What was his position? Why did the Mets?

 

That's easy -- his "attention to details"!

 

A better question may be: why isn't Manfred asking those questions?

 

I'd repeat my thoughts, but I'm just a high comedian on this forum (even though I don't even eat gummies)...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

While I tend to agree, I guess it depends on whom they decided to re interview. If it were a JD Martinez for example then I would be really concerned since he denied any sign stealing.

 

Maybe someone dropped some names or contradicted another witness. Either way, it's not good; there are players who've been released, not re-signed or (gulp) traded, plus ex-employees who fled Dombro's autocracy -- unless Manfred is hopefully just dragging it out to make it look like he's devoting as much time digging into the Sox as he did on the Astros. But I doubt it.

[mvp 78]

Boone, whose team played the Red Sox 23 times in 2018 between the regular season and postseason, said the Yankees didn’t necessarily have suspicions that the Red Sox were doing anything outside the rules.

 

“I think there’s moments throughout the year when you’re always worried about that,” Boone said. “Not just with the Red Sox. All teams are guarding against that and there’s times that maybe they’ve got a tip or they’ve gotten something from somewhere. You also understand it’s on you to guard that, protect that and be aware of those things.”

 

So Boone thinks there isn't smoke but Jacko does?

[jad]

"Maybe this is why Crane's press conference was able to so intransigent. In his mind, he didn't think he had to admit any particular guilt--at least none for himself (the big boss). And why he was ready to just move on."

 

This is why nobody really seems sorry for what they did: because secret codes and breaking codes have always been part of the game -- and video, which the MLB hypocritically/hysterically provided both access to and forbidden usage of -- created new and better ways. Every analytics department breaks down video, looking for any and every advantage possible. The Astros won with blatant tactics, which makes them obvious targets of scorn and scrutiny.

 

The Wall Street Journal article cites Houston's front office for creating its systems before Cora even worked there. As smart as he is, Cora wasn't any mastermind, but an employee who may have simply agreed to implement the company's system, while Hinch -- who reportedly didn't approve of it -- was just another employee, powerless to fight the system. Banging and whistling was about as advanced as ballplayers could get... remember, this is a culture constantly seeking an edge, whether it's chewing or dipping carcinogens, ingesting amphetamines, injecting steroids, or downing 5-Hour Energy.

 

Boone, whose team played the Red Sox 23 times in 2018 between the regular season and postseason, said the Yankees didn’t necessarily have suspicions that the Red Sox were doing anything outside the rules.

 

“I think there’s moments throughout the year when you’re always worried about that,” Boone said. “Not just with the Red Sox. All teams are guarding against that and there’s times that maybe they’ve got a tip or they’ve gotten something from somewhere. You also understand it’s on you to guard that, protect that and be aware of those things.”

 

So Boone thinks there isn't smoke but Jacko does?

 

There's also an article in ESPN about various Dodgers' outrage (who apparently think that teams should win the old-fashioned way--by buying a championship).

But the last thing a boxing referee tells fighters is "Protect yourself at all times." And if these dumb-ass after-the-fact moralists didn't bother to change signs even though sign-stealing has been part of the game since the beginning, then that's on them.

[mvp 78]

There's also an article in ESPN about various Dodgers' outrage (who apparently think that teams should win the old-fashioned way--by buying a championship).

But the last thing a boxing referee tells fighters is "Protect yourself at all times." And if these dumb-ass after-the-fact moralists didn't bother to change signs even though sign-stealing has been part of the game since the beginning, then that's on them.

 

Nationals stated they mixed up signs throughout the game and often during an inning. Maybe that's how they won?

[Slasher9]

 

So Boone thinks there isn't smoke but Jacko does?

 

but jacksonianmarch is a doctor! ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

[jad]

Cheating occurs in every sport I've every played: football, hockey, baseball, tennis, squash, golf, bridge, poker... others I can't even think of--and I haven't played these at a very high level. You learn to deal with it. How is it that professional athletes seem never to have encountered this and have absolutely no clue as to how to combat it except to wail like three-year-olds "It's not FAIR!!!!"

[jung]

Using video and electronics to steal signs real time, in game and in the moment is a whole nuther level of cheating though.

 

Sale today very critical of where the game is today.

 

Frankly, I really don't care what the league report on Boston says. Manfred has got to get on top of team access to real time, in game, and in the moment video and the use of real time in game in the moment use of electronics or he is going to have a tiger by the tail. Frankly the MLBPA should be as vocal as anybody as one group of their union membership is taking advantage of another group of their union membership.

 

This is as close to a zero sum game as it gets and while I am sick and tired of members of opposing teams greeting each other with "have a good year BROTHER" as in union brother, this could get much uglier than anybody wants to see and quickly.

[jad]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28724451/red-sox-jd-martinez-thinks-astros-bashing-bit-much

 

100% agree.

 

I'm guessing you and I share one thing w/ professional athletes: we've lost roughly 50% of the games we played. And it wasn't because our opponents cheated.

[jung]

Now do folks understand the disaster of Rob Manfred at the head of MLB.

 

Comment from Manford regarding the question of taking the 2017 WS trophy from the Astros:

The world series trophy is "just a piece of metal".

 

OK Rob...do us favor....get the f*** out a' town you flaming jerkoff with your screwed up marketing, your juiced up baseballs, your screwed up rules and idiot replay. GET OUT.....We need a commissioner that actually knows something about this game and cares about it.

Edited February 19, 2020 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Now do folks understand the disaster of Rob Manfred at the head of MLB.

 

Comment from Manford regarding the question of taking the 2017 WS trophy from the Astros:

The world series trophy is "just a piece of metal".

 

Yeah, I mentioned that idiotic comment too.

[Slasher9]

MLB’s investigation into the 2018 Red Sox for illegal sign stealing will find that former president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski was not involved, MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reported Tuesday.

 

“Have heard ex GM Dave Dombrowski, who was there in 2018 (the year in question), will be found to be not involved,” Heyman tweeted.

[Bellhorn04]

MLB’s investigation into the 2018 Red Sox for illegal sign stealing will find that former president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski was not involved, MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reported Tuesday.

 

“Have heard ex GM Dave Dombrowski, who was there in 2018 (the year in question), will be found to be not involved,” Heyman tweeted.

 

Guess that confirms the rumors about him being isolated.

[Elktonnick]

Guess that confirms the rumors about him being isolated.

My god he was at every game. What the hell was he watching?

[Tedballgame]

MLB’s investigation into the 2018 Red Sox for illegal sign stealing will find that former president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski was not involved, MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reported Tuesday.

 

“Have heard ex GM Dave Dombrowski, who was there in 2018 (the year in question), will be found to be not involved,” Heyman tweeted.

 

My fear is that MLB comes down hard on the Red Sox because of all the flak they are taking on the Astros' punishment. The Sox will be the scapegoats. I hope that doesn't happen.

[jacksonianmarch]

My fear is that MLB comes down hard on the Red Sox because of all the flak they are taking on the Astros' punishment. The Sox will be the scapegoats. I hope that doesn't happen.

 

I agree with you Ted. If the report doesn’t completely exonerate the Sox, my bet is they get hit with an over the top penalty.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I agree with you Ted. If the report doesn’t completely exonerate the Sox, my bet is they get hit with an over the top penalty.

 

Why not? Sox are already decimated, kicking them while they're down won't alter the current MLB landscape. Plus, it will be fun watching Price defend his old mates to his new mates... and listening to Mookie quote Pedey: "It's not me, it's them."

 

Just -- whatever you do -- don't investigate the Beltran pinstripe trail from the Bronx and back to the Bronx.

https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/steve-mcqueen-and-dustin-hoffman-in-a-scene-of-the-film-news-photo/141561501

[Bellhorn04]

Ian Kinsler says the 2018 Red Sox just had 'a very good system of relaying from second base to home plate.'

[Bellhorn04]

Kinsler also says players who were reviewing at their at-bats on video would also be looking at signs and trying to decode them - making it sound as if this was just normal procedure that everyone was doing.

 

So maybe Manfred is going to have to decide if it's cheating when everyone is doing it.

[Bellhorn04]

Also, the Red Sox checked with MLB to find out if Roenicke would be implicated in report and learned he wouldn't be, before naming him manager.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kinsler also says players who were reviewing at their at-bats on video would also be looking at signs and trying to decode them - making it sound as if this was just normal procedure that everyone was doing.

 

So maybe Manfred is going to have to decide if it's cheating when everyone is doing it.

 

Like I've been saying forever: How can you not? In every video of you hitting, there's a catcher squatting behind flashing fingers.

 

This problem is not going away because technology is here to stay. No one needs video rooms when there are ipads in every dugout.

 

JD's is attached to him, like drivers texting at every stoplight in the nation...

[mvp 78]

Also, the Red Sox checked with MLB to find out if Roenicke would be implicated in report and learned he wouldn't be, before naming him manager.

 

Well, then it couldn't be as bad as the Astros punishment then.

[Slasher9]

Ian Kinsler says the 2018 Red Sox just had 'a very good system of relaying from second base to home plate.'

 

the way the sox relayed the signs from 2b is not the issue. this is part of the game.

the problem is with the way that the Sox decoded the signs - using video during the game. this is what is against the rules.

since kinsler also admitted dudes were using video to decode signs we are f***ed. i expect the same punishment as houston received (it would have been less if not for apple watch. thanks Pedroia!)

the next 2 years: 1st and 2nd round picks gone.