Good Bye Yankees

[jacksonianmarch]

I should have said a year after signing. What I meant was even a big deal like Price’s brought back value. Top level aces don’t just lose it entirely. They usually produce to a good to great level even when they lose their fastball

[Nick]

I should have said a year after signing. What I meant was even a big deal like Price’s brought back value. Top level aces don’t just lose it entirely. They usually produce to a good to great level even when they lose their fastball

 

Yankees are so close to being dominant, by that I mean their hitting and bullpen is off the chart. You have CC coming off the books, maybe Gardner and Encarnacion. Elsbury comes off next year.

 

They have to throw money at Cole. It's just money. You don't tap into your farm, you don't lose anyone on the roster. If I'm a Yankee fan, starting pitching has to be addressed. Above average is not good enough. Great hitting will propel the team to 100 wins. Not sure that will get you the World Series ring.

 

Look at the starting pitchers for Nationals and Astros. That's how you win it all. Not with bunch of #3 starters.

[jacksonianmarch]

That’s the big thing here. Our pen has been lights out. Our team is deep. Our starters are passable. We match up well with almost every team, except the Astros and Nationals. If the Rays took game 5, we’re in the World Series. The Astros will lose a lot when Cole goes. Just like the Nats will lose a lot when Strasburg goes. Cashman has never been complacent in team building. He’s gonna get improvements. And we are only missing one thing, an ace

[notin]

That’s the big thing here. Our pen has been lights out. Our team is deep. Our starters are passable. We match up well with almost every team, except the Astros and Nationals. If the Rays took game 5, we’re in the World Series. The Astros will lose a lot when Cole goes. Just like the Nats will lose a lot when Strasburg goes. Cashman has never been complacent in team building. He’s gonna get improvements. And we are only missing one thing, an ace

 

 

You might be understiating the Rays. That they could take Houston to 5 games alone should indicate that they re no pushover. They won as many games against the Astros in a 5 game series as the Yankees did in a 7 game series.

 

 

Also, the Astros ans National (and Dodgers tht you omitted) might lose a lot when those pitchers leave, but the Yankees also might lose a lot if Chapman leaves. And the Astros do get a full season of Greinke next year...

[jacksonianmarch]

Greinke isn’t what he used to be. By the Astros getting him, it means they won’t have the coin to resign Cole. It means they won’t have the coin to resign Springer. I will take it. Greinke fades under the bright lights and he is not exactly the most durable guy anymore.

 

We owned the Rays all year outside of a late season sweep in the Trop. We hammered their relievers and handled Snell.

[Bellhorn04]

Greinke isn’t what he used to be. By the Astros getting him, it means they won’t have the coin to resign Cole. It means they won’t have the coin to resign Springer. I will take it. Greinke fades under the bright lights and he is not exactly the most durable guy anymore.

 

Greinke's payroll cost is not a killer. He's on the books for 2 years at a net AAV of about 24 mill per year after Arizona's contribution of 10.33 mill.

 

Also woth noting is that Verlander's deal expires in 2021 just like Greinke's.

[notin]

Greinke isn’t what he used to be. By the Astros getting him, it means they won’t have the coin to resign Cole. It means they won’t have the coin to resign Springer. I will take it. Greinke fades under the bright lights and he is not exactly the most durable guy anymore.

 

We owned the Rays all year outside of a late season sweep in the Trop. We hammered their relievers and handled Snell.

 

So you owned the Rays outside of the games you lost?

[Kimmi]

Now that they reset, we'll see if this is true or not.

 

I think the Yankees are going to spend big on starting pitching this offseason.

[Kimmi]

I should have said a year after signing. What I meant was even a big deal like Price’s brought back value. Top level aces don’t just lose it entirely. They usually produce to a good to great level even when they lose their fastball

 

It's always a bad idea to throw big money at an aging pitcher.

[Kimmi]

That’s the big thing here. Our pen has been lights out. Our team is deep. Our starters are passable. We match up well with almost every team, except the Astros and Nationals. If the Rays took game 5, we’re in the World Series. The Astros will lose a lot when Cole goes. Just like the Nats will lose a lot when Strasburg goes. Cashman has never been complacent in team building. He’s gonna get improvements. And we are only missing one thing, an ace

 

You match up well with any team in the regular season. In the postseason, your bullpen got exposed by overuse. The same was likely to happen with the Rays. You only beat the Twins because, well, they're the Twins.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Twins always lose to NY, but this year I think were exposed as one of the most suspect 100-win teams in history; either that, or they won one of the worst divisions of all-time. Minny: 52-18 .743 vs. Chi/KC/Det and the other two last place teams, Baltimore and Seattle...and then 49-46 .516 vs. the rest of their schedule.

 

I still can't believe they started Dobnak in Gm 2 in freaking Yankee Stadium. Odorizzi had a career year, was their ace and made the All-Star team... and they were afraid to pitch him in the Bronx in a must-win game? After the two blowouts, if the Twins somehow won two games at home, they'd have to go back to NY for the finale and start... Dobnak?

[moonslav59]

It's always a bad idea to throw big money at an aging pitcher.

 

Never say "always."

 

Verlander's last deal worked out. Scherzer is 35. Greinke's deal does not look all that bad. He's 36.

 

Lester.

 

Some of the shorter deals given to old pitchers have worked great. Clemens in 2005.

 

Sure, there's a longer list of failures, but "always" is a strong word.

 

[jacksonianmarch]

So you owned the Rays outside of the games you lost?

 

We ended up 12-7 vs them. We were 12-4 before a late season sweep where we were resting guys and the Rays were fighting for a WC spot.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Here's the Truth about the Yankees off season .Cole ,stras won't pick the meat grinder of NY ....why ? To get exposed ? naaaah those two guys head to San Fran or Angels or the cards .The Yankees won't overpay but those teams just might .The Yanks Blew it by not winning this year and will have to hope they find a diamond in the rough .Boston pitching will get back to anylitics and be much improved .Redsox win the division in 2020 go to the World Series and sweep ...why ???? Because we are title town buddy

[Kimmi]

Never say "always."

 

Verlander's last deal worked out. Scherzer is 35. Greinke's deal does not look all that bad. He's 36.

 

Lester.

 

Some of the shorter deals given to old pitchers have worked great. Clemens in 2005.

 

Sure, there's a longer list of failures, but "always" is a strong word.

 

 

"Always" is a bit of a strong word, I agree. I realize that sometimes the deal works out. For me, it is far too often that the deal becomes a bad contract sooner rather than later, so for me, the word 'always' applies.

[moonslav59]

"Always" is a bit of a strong word, I agree. I realize that sometimes the deal works out. For me, it is far too often that the deal becomes a bad contract sooner rather than later, so for me, the word 'always' applies.

 

If we're talking about just the biggest contracts given to pitchers over 30 or 31/32, IMO there are too many that worked out well or okay to use the word "always". It's not like there are hundreds and hundreds of bad big deals for aging pitchers.

 

There are certainly some real duds, especially in the early days of free agency. How many of these do you think were bad to awful? How many were okay? How many were good to great?

 

Highest paid pitchers of all time (some were under 30 when signed):

 

Starting pitchers

The highest-paid starting pitchers, by average annual value:

1. Justin Verlander, $33,000,000 (2020-21)

2. Zack Greinke, $32,500,000 (2016-21) (reduced for deferrals)

3. David Price, $31,000,000 (2016-22)

… Clayton Kershaw, $31,000,000 (2019-21)

5. Clayton Kershaw, $30,714,286 (2014-20)

6. Max Scherzer, $30,000,000 (2015-21)

7. Jacob deGrom, $27,500,000 (2019-23)

8. Jon Lester, $25,833,333 (2015-20)

9. Justin Verlander, $25,714,286 (2013-19)

10. Chris Sale, $25,600,000 (2020-24)

11. Felix Hernandez, $25,000,000 (2013-19)

… Stephen Strasburg, $25,000,000 (2017-23)

… Jake Arrieta, $25,000,000 (2018-20)

14. Zack Greinke, $24,500,000 (2013-18)

15. CC Sabathia, $24,400,000 (2012-16)

16. Cole Hamels, $24,000,000 (2013-18)

… Cliff Lee, $24,000,000 (2011-15)

18. Patrick Corbin, $23,333,333 (2019-24)

19. CC Sabathia, $23,000,000 (2009-15)

20. Johan Santana, $22,916,667 (2008-13)

21. Masahiro Tanaka, $22,142,857 (2014-20)

22. Jordan Zimmermann, $22,000,000 (2016-20)

23. Johnny Cueto, $21,666,667 (2016-21)

24. Matt Cain, $21,250,000 (2012-17)

25. Yu Darvish, $21,000,000 (2018-23)

26. Rick Porcello, $20,625,000 (2016-19)

27. Tim Lincecum, $20,250,000 (2012-13)

28. Roy Halladay, $20,000,000 (2011-13)

29. Adam Wainwright, $19,500,000 (2014-18)

30. James Shields, $18,750,000 (2015-18)

31. Carlos Zambrano, $18,300,000 (2008-12)

32. Roger Clemens, $18,000,000 (2005)

. . . Barry Zito, $18,000,000 (2007-13)

. . . Jeff Samardzija, $18,000,000 (2016-20)

35. Tim Lincecum, $17,500,000 (2014-15)

. . . Homer Bailey, $17,500,000 (2014-19)

37. Jake Peavy, $17,333,333 (2010-12)

38. Josh Beckett, $17,000,000 (2011-14)

. . . Jered Weaver, $17,000,000 (2012-16)

. . . Nathan Eovaldi, $17,000,000 (2019-22)

. . . Miles Mikolas, $17,000,000 (2019-23)

42. A.J. Burnett, $16,500,000 (2009-13)

. . . John Lackey, $16,500,000 (2010-14)

44. Andy Pettitte, $16,000,000 (2007)

. . . Andy Pettitte, $16,000,000 (2008)

. . . Justin Verlander, $16,000,000 (2010-14)

. . . Anibal Sanchez, $16,000,000 (2013-17)

. . . Hiroki Kuroda, $16,000,000 (2014)

. . . John Lackey, $16,000,000 (2016-17)

. . . Scott Kazmir, $16,000,000 (2016-18)

. . . Rich Hill, $16,000,000 (2017-19)

52. Jason Schmidt, $15,666,667 (2007-09)

53. Jake Arrieta, $15,637,500 (2017)

54. Felix Hernandez, $15,600,000 (2010-14)

55. C.J. Wilson, $15,500,000 (2012-16)

56. Max Scherzer, $15,250,000 (2014)

57. Mike Hampton, $15,125,000 (2001-08)

58. Kevin Brown, $15,000,000 (1999-2005)

. . . Derek Lowe, $15,000,000 (2009-12)

. . . Hiroki Kuroda, $15,000,000 (2013)

. . . Hisashi Iwakuma, $15,000,000 (2016-18)

62. Roy Oswalt, $14,600,000 (2007-11)

63. Mark Buehrle, $14,500,000 (2012-15)

. . . Jake Peavy, $14,500,000 (2013-14)

65. Mark Buehrle, $14,000,000 (2008-11)

. . . David Price, $14,000,000 (2014)