Billie Beane time ???

[Swiharts Ghost]

What says you ?

[a700hitter]

What says you ?

He backed away from the Boston job a long time ago.

[Bellhorn04]

What says you ?

 

I says why did you start the same thread twice.

[notin]

I says why did you start the same thread twice.

 

He's hoping it's like a Beetlejuice thing. If you use Billy Beane's name in a thread headline 3 times, he magically appears and rebuilds your farm system ...

[Kimmi]

If it were up to me, I would seriously pry Theo away from the Cubs.

[vegasbob]

If it were up to me, I would seriously pry Theo away from the Cubs.

 

Over the last 30 years I have gone to work with a core group of people 4 times in 3 different companies . It feels great to see the same faces after a long break and instantly get back into productive mode with good friends. Can Theo go home again. It may not be good in all cases but he is still relatively young. I guarantee he doesn't want any distractions right now as his Cubs try to hold on the 2nd NL WC. It must be fun to still be in the competition, instead of this slow death in Boston.

[Kimmi]

Over the last 30 years I have gone to work with a core group of people 4 times in 3 different companies . It feels great to see the same faces after a long break and instantly get back into productive mode with good friends. Can Theo go home again. It may not be good in all cases but he is still relatively young. I guarantee he doesn't want any distractions right now as his Cubs try to hold on the 2nd NL WC. It must be fun to still be in the competition, instead of this slow death in Boston.

 

My opinion is that Theo left because of Lucchino, who wouldn't allow Theo the freedom to do things the way Theo wanted to do them. He probably would not want to come back, but if promised the autonomy that Dombrowski had, maybe he would.

[illinoisredsox]

My opinion is that Theo left because of Lucchino, who wouldn't allow Theo the freedom to do things the way Theo wanted to do them. He probably would not want to come back, but if promised the autonomy that Dombrowski had, maybe he would.

 

Problem is Theo holds the same position with the Cubs that DD had with the Red Sox. It would be a lateral move which are generally frowned upon in MLB. At best the Cubs would want significant compensation, and it will be far beyond what the teams worked out last time.

[moonslav59]

Don't take this as me bashing Theo. I loved him as our GM, but even he admitted he made some big mistakes. Let's also not forget that the whole system of drafting and IFA signings was way different back then. It actually favored the big spenders and winners. Some top prospects dropped to the late picks out of "signability" issues, and big spending teams swooped in a drafted them & signed them. The IFA market was just about a free for all, and Theo (and Ben) did very well in that area. I think that's were we did best. The second most important farm builder for the Sox were the comp picks we gained by letting over-the-hill FAs walk.

 

Theo's last draft included 4 comp picks as his top 4 picks: Barnes, JBJ, Swihrat and Owens. He also found Betts in the 5th round- something DD did not do. The year before (2010) he drafted Workman with a comp pick, but also Kolbrin Vitek, Brentz and Ranaudo. In 2009, he drafted Reymond Fuentes and Alex Wilson in the top 77 picks. 2008: Casey Kelly & Bryan Price. 2007: Nick Hagadone & Ryan Dent. 2006: Jason Place, Daniel Bard, Kris Johnson & Caleb Clay in the top 44 (2 comp picks). That's a long stretch of drafting poorly, mostly with low picks. You have to go back to 2005's comp pick laden draft to find his next good draft: Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie, Bowden (top 47 picks).

 

Ben's first draft saw 2 comp picks (Johnson & Pat Light) along with Marrero (all top 37). 2013L Trey Ball (#7) and Stanki 45th. 2014: Chavis (26th), Kopech (33) & Travis 67. 2015: Beni (7) & Rei (81).

 

IFA Signings:

Theo

Doubront '04

Dice-K & Okajima '05

Tazawa & Cuevas '07

Bogey, Iggy & Montas '09

Margot '11

 

Ben:

Lin '12

Basabe, Basabe, Bautista '12

Devers, DHern '13

Espinoza, Castillo '14

 

It may not be easy finding a GM that can rebuild with low draft picks and small IFA bonus pools. We also need a GM that can hire people who know how to develop young talent.

 

Most of us think DD is NOT "that guy," but maybe there are only 3-5 guys who have a proven record doing so, and some of them have no rings, yet.

 

I think of the hopes I had when we signed Dan D. He had a proven record of acquiring great young talent, but the Expos could never pay them through their primes. I thought, wow, this is perfect, and in many ways Dan D laid the groundwork for Theo, but he never won a ring by himself, and after he left the Sox, he proved nothing.

 

It won't be easy, and I hope we choose right here.

 

 

[fxkatt]

I just saw a list of 12 possible GMs... and Beane wasn't on the list. Lots of VPs from currently winning teams as at Minny and at Houston. Never heard of about 90% of them but then I'm out of the admin loop.

[notin]

I just saw a list of 12 possible GMs... and Beane wasn't on the list. Lots of VPs from currently winning teams as at Minny and at Houston. Never heard of about 90% of them but then I'm out of the admin loop.

 

Was I mentioned?

[oldtimer]

I just saw a list of 12 possible GMs... and Beane wasn't on the list. Lots of VPs from currently winning teams as at Minny and at Houston. Never heard of about 90% of them but then I'm out of the admin loop.

 

I don't think we can mess with GM candidates before the season ends for the teams and maybe not before the WS or we will be called for tampering. The sooner we can get our guy the better. We need a mover and shaker since this team seems to be too complacent and in a season long malaise. The manager, coaches and players need to show some fire. Tough on the guys who do as many of them have already packed it in.

[Larry33]

Theo Epstein greatest move and probably in all of baseball was when he signed David Ortiz to a one year non guaranteed deal when the Twins released him and the rest is history. Theo made mistakes he's like everyone else nobody is perfect but overall he still the best GM that the Red Sox ever had he could draft and recognize talent, he did some good trades like Beckett, Lowell and Schilling, he understood analytics and what it took to win. Hired good people who knew baseball like Terry Francona and Joe Maddon. Overall he the best we've seen on the Red Sox front office nobody will come close to his record in the modern era of baseball

[Bellhorn04]

Theo Epstein greatest move and probably in all of baseball was when he signed David Ortiz to a one year non guaranteed deal when the Twins released him and the rest is history. Theo made mistakes he's like everyone else nobody is perfect but overall he still the best GM that the Red Sox ever had he could draft and recognize talent, he did some good trades like Beckett, Lowell and Schilling, he understood analytics and what it took to win. Hired good people who knew baseball like Terry Francona and Joe Maddon. Overall he the best we've seen on the Red Sox front office nobody will come close to his record in the modern era of baseball

 

Theo was on his famous hiatus when the team traded for Beckett and Lowell.

[S5Dewey]

Theo was on his famous hiatus when the team traded for Beckett and Lowell.

 

I've always been of the opinion that although the trade happened during the time Theo was oh his hiatus the trade still had his fingerprints all over it.

Theo donned the gorilla suit on Halloween 2005 and Beckett & Lowell trade was signed on Thanksgiving Day. That's about a month, and trades like this don't happen quickly. There's due diligence to be done, etc. and it all takes time. Also, I have to think that there was some upheaval in the Sox FO early in November while they decided who was going to be doing what once Theo was gone.

 

So.. my opinion.. and just my opinion.. is that Theo laid the groundwork for the trade and had things in motion before he left. All that happened when Theo was gone was that the lame-duck FO followed up on the plan.

 

Consequently it's my belief that Theo should get more credit for the trade than he's getting.

[Bellhorn04]

I've always been of the opinion that although the trade happened during the time Theo was oh his hiatus the trade still had his fingerprints all over it.

Theo donned the gorilla suit on Halloween 2005 and Beckett & Lowell trade was signed on Thanksgiving Day. That's about a month, and trades like this don't happen quickly. There's due diligence to be done, etc. and it all takes time. Also, I have to think that there was some upheaval in the Sox FO early in November while they decided who was going to be doing what once Theo was gone.

 

So.. my opinion.. and just my opinion.. is that Theo laid the groundwork for the trade and had things in motion before he left. All that happened when Theo was gone was that the lame-duck FO followed up on the plan.

 

Consequently it's my belief that Theo should get more credit for the trade than he's getting.

 

I thought it was Lucchino who made that move. And Theo later said he wouldn't have done it because he wanted to keep Hanley. But I could be wrong on both counts.

[notin]

I thought it was Lucchino who made that move. And Theo later said he wouldn't have done it because he wanted to keep Hanley. But I could be wrong on both counts.

 

I thought that trade was Hoyer and either Cherington or Byrnes...

[S5Dewey]

I thought it was Lucchino who made that move. And Theo later said he wouldn't have done it because he wanted to keep Hanley. But I could be wrong on both counts.

 

Possible. I was following the timeline.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought that trade was Hoyer and either Cherington or Byrnes...

 

But don't you think it had Larry's mitts all over it? I can't see Hoyer and Cherington deciding to make a blockbuster move like that shortly after the departure of Theo.

[notin]

But don't you think it had Larry's mitts all over it? I can't see Hoyer and Cherington deciding to make a blockbuster move like that shortly after the departure of Theo.

 

I don't pretend to know what involvement if any Lucchino had in those types of operations.

 

If Lucchino was involved, then that is a point in his favor. While Hanley was making minimal effort to play defense in Miami and making enemies in the front office and dugout, Beckett was carrying the Sox through the 2007 ALCS.

 

And bear in mind, the original request from the Marlins wasn't Hanley and Sanchez. They originally wanted Pedroia and Lester. ..

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I believe the odds of Billy Beane becoming the president of operations in Boston would be equal to Brad Pitt taking the job.

[notin]

I believe the odds of Billy Beane becoming the president of operations in Boston would be equal to Brad Pitt taking the job.

 

Are we interviewing Brad Pitt? If so, I withdraw my application...

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

There's 3 big reasons why it will be difficult for John Henry to hire a top notch GM to rebuild this team--Price, Sale, and Eovaldi.

[notin]

There's 3 big reasons why it will be difficult for John Henry to hire a top notch GM to rebuild this team--Price, Sale, and Eovaldi.

 

I disagree.

 

Sale and Price struggled with bad luck and big innings, but both pitchers had higher ERAs than FIPs, and clearly still have something left. I don't think either will be some sort of Carl Crawford deadweight next season, just cashing paychecks while no one figures out why either is still playing. There is some very substantial hope for improvement.

 

The big deal with Eovaldi is the same one that has always been there - can he actually stay on the mound and give you 150 IP?

 

The Sox would probably love to move any of these three, and all will be difficult moves. But I think it would be easier to move Sale or Price than Eovaldi. However, the chances any of the three actually get moved are pretty low...

[jacksonianmarch]

I am entirely, 100% convinced that you’ve seen the best from Sale. His arm just cannot handle it anymore. He either dials down and becomes more hittable or he continues to sell out for velocity and gets hurt. Price, similar as well, although he’s adjusted to his lost velocity. He just cannot stay healthy. Eovaldi is showing you what i saw for a couple years in the Bronx. Great stuff, intermittent dominance mixed with maddening inconsistency and major injuries. His choices to lead his rotation will haunt the Sox for years

[Bellhorn04]

I disagree.

 

Sale and Price struggled with bad luck and big innings, but both pitchers had higher ERAs than FIPs, and clearly still have something left. I don't think either will be some sort of Carl Crawford deadweight next season, just cashing paychecks while no one figures out why either is still playing. There is some very substantial hope for improvement.

 

The big deal with Eovaldi is the same one that has always been there - can he actually stay on the mound and give you 150 IP?

 

The Sox would probably love to move any of these three, and all will be difficult moves. But I think it would be easier to move Sale or Price than Eovaldi. However, the chances any of the three actually get moved are pretty low...

 

And if the toggle switch on Sale's arm goes back to awesome, they'd probably rather have him. They didn't just sign him up for $145 mill for funsies.

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, you aren’t getting Beane. Just get rid of that thought. Beane has his castle in Oakland. He runs that organization. Starting over in Boston with more pressure and oversight would be a major change for him and I bet he wouldn’t bite. He’s got a great gig in Oakland and a built in excuse of being small market. No accountability

[Bellhorn04]

I am entirely, 100% convinced that you’ve seen the best from Sale. His arm just cannot handle it anymore. He either dials down and becomes more hittable or he continues to sell out for velocity and gets hurt. Price, similar as well, although he’s adjusted to his lost velocity. He just cannot stay healthy. Eovaldi is showing you what i saw for a couple years in the Bronx. Great stuff, intermittent dominance mixed with maddening inconsistency and major injuries. His choices to lead his rotation will haunt the Sox for years

 

Settle down a bit, Jax. Eovaldi's injuries the last 2 seasons haven't been major.

 

Just a wee bit of negative bias in your forecast.

[notin]

Also, you aren’t getting Beane. Just get rid of that thought. Beane has his castle in Oakland. He runs that organization. Starting over in Boston with more pressure and oversight would be a major change for him and I bet he wouldn’t bite. He’s got a great gig in Oakland and a built in excuse of being small market. No accountability

 

Not to mention, it's a step down everywhere but in the size of the market. The A's made the postseason last year and are positioned to do so again this year...

[notin]

And if the toggle switch on Sale's arm goes back to awesome, they'd probably rather have him. They didn't just sign him up for $145 mill for funsies.

 

We hope.

 

This is one of the repeatedly questioned deals that reportedly lead to DD's firing and is often named as why the Sox might be moving Betts...