Red Sox have fired GM Dave Dombrowski

[notin]

3 last places in 4 years. Henry signed off on DD hire. He's the best owner we've had. I trust his judgement.

 

Henry signed off on Dombrowski to replace Lucchino, not Cherington. Dombrowski was reportedly caught offguard by Cherinton's resignation...

[mvp 78]

Henry signed off on Dombrowski to replace Lucchino, not Cherington. Dombrowski was reportedly caught offguard by Cherinton's resignation...

 

^^^

 

I see Dombrowski more favorably than Lucchino.

[notin]

^^^

 

I see Dombrowski more favorably than Lucchino.

 

Most people see a fire-breathing velociraptor holding a fistful of eviction notices as a favorable alternative to Lucchino...

[mvp 78]

Most people see a fire-breathing velociraptor holding a fistful of eviction notices as a favorable alternative to Lucchino...

 

Well, I would never give a fire-breathing velociraptor a car ride, but https://www.talksox.com/forum/members/5604-SoxFanForsyth did.

[Nick]

Henry signed off on Dombrowski to replace Lucchino, not Cherington. Dombrowski was reportedly caught offguard by Cherinton's resignation...

 

But the point was DD became head of baseball operations, supplanting Cherington. Cherington was going to be DD's errand boy.

[dgalehouse]

It's not just who he traded , but who he kept. He kept Devers , who has turned out to be better than any of those traded . ( Maybe the jury is still out on Moncada )

[Bellhorn04]

Henry signed off on Dombrowski to replace Lucchino, not Cherington. Dombrowski was reportedly caught offguard by Cherinton's resignation...

 

Jeez man, you really put a lot of stock in the official titles. If DD was only replacing Lucchino's function, Ben would not have resigned.

[mvp 78]

But the point was DD became head of baseball operations, supplanting Cherington. Cherington was going to be DD's errand boy.

 

Disagree.

[mvp 78]

Jeez man, you really put a lot of stock in the official titles. If DD was only replacing Lucchino's function, Ben would not have resigned.

 

Disagree. You guys are just playing into the A700 narrative that Ben was "coffee boy."

[Bellhorn04]

Disagree. You guys are just playing into the A700 narrative that Ben was "coffee boy."

 

Not at all. Why would Ben resign if his position in operations wasn't going to change? Makes no sense.

[dgalehouse]

It seems kind of redundant to have two positions with basically the same duties. Obviously , owners are not concerned with overhead costs.

[Bellhorn04]

Theo Epstein is the president of the Cubs. I don't think there's any doubt he's the head decision-maker in baseball operations.

 

Sam Kennedy is the president of the Red Sox. I don't think there's any doubt Chaim Bloom is the head decision-maker in baseball operations.

[notin]

But the point was DD became head of baseball operations, supplanting Cherington. Cherington was going to be DD's errand boy.

 

Is that what Hazen was?

[notin]

Theo Epstein is the president of the Cubs. I don't think there's any doubt he's the head decision-maker in baseball operations.

 

Sam Kennedy is the president of the Red Sox. I don't think there's any doubt Chaim Bloom is the head decision-maker in baseball operations.

 

So is Jed Hoyer just a “coffee boy”?

[notin]

Jeez man, you really put a lot of stock in the official titles. If DD was only replacing Lucchino's function, Ben would not have resigned.

 

1) Maybe he didn’t like Dombrowski personally. Reportedly it’s not uncommon.

 

2) Possible he suspected that, but that doesn’t mean he was correct.

 

3) Maybe he worked very hard to restore a pretty depleted farm system (while winning a title) that was meant to pipeline players in for years, but knew it would be torn down in front of his eyes when Henry brought in a guy whose very reputation was “Farm Killer”...

[notin]

Well, I would never give a fire-breathing velociraptor a car ride, but https://www.talksox.com/forum/members/5604-SoxFanForsyth did.

 

I’m actually surprised the fire breathing velociraptor got in the car...

[Bellhorn04]

1) Maybe he didn’t like Dombrowski personally. Reportedly it’s not uncommon.

 

2) Possible he suspected that, but that doesn’t mean he was correct.

 

3) Maybe he worked very hard to restore a pretty depleted farm system (while winning a title) that was meant to pipeline players in for years, but knew it would be torn down in front of his eyes when Henry brought in a guy whose very reputation was “Farm Killer”...

 

It all adds up to the fact that he was being 'supplanted', as Nick correctly put it. If you want to argue that it was a case of Ben seeing 'the writing on the wall', that's virtually the same thing.

[Bellhorn04]

So is Jed Hoyer just a “coffee boy”?

 

I never said he was, that's just trying to put words in my mouth.

 

The point is that he's not the head decision-maker.

[notin]

It all adds up to the fact that he was being 'supplanted', as Nick correctly put it. If you want to argue that it was a case of Ben seeing 'the writing on the wall', that's virtually the same thing.

 

Even if he was being supplanted, that doesn’t mean the Sox were better off with him going. As I said, DD wanted him to stay, presumably to keep the farm strong...

[Kimmi]

I'd like to have given Ben one more year.

 

Most definitely.

[notin]

I never said he was, that's just trying to put words in my mouth.

 

The point is that he's not the head decision-maker.

 

And every time DD signs a major contract, someone excuses it with “Henry signed off on it.” Doesn’t that mean Dombrowski isn’t either? (And given the number of people who credit Sandoval and/or Hanley with Lucchino, was Ben really ever the head decision maker?)

[Kimmi]

3 last places in 4 years. Henry signed off on DD hire. He's the best owner we've had. I trust his judgement.

 

Henry tends to overreact.

 

He should have kept Ben. The 3 last places were not Ben's fault.

[Kimmi]

Even if he was being supplanted, that doesn’t mean the Sox were better off with him going. As I said, DD wanted him to stay, presumably to keep the farm strong...

 

The Sox would have been better off if Cherington had stayed under Dombrowski, IMO. That said, I don't blame Cherington one bit for leaving. I would have left under those circumstances.

[Nick]

The Sox would have been better off if Cherington had stayed under Dombrowski, IMO. That said, I don't blame Cherington one bit for leaving. I would have left under those circumstances.

 

Are we all not saying the same thing? Screw the job titles. DD became head of day to day baseball operations, the job Ben had. I don't blame Ben for leaving.

 

My only point was I tend to think Henry is a good owner and I'll live with his decision making when it comes to hiring of his direct report. I'm assuming head of baseball operations has to answer to the ownership group.

[cp176]

And every time DD signs a major contract, someone excuses it with “Henry signed off on it.” Doesn’t that mean Dombrowski isn’t either? (And given the number of people who credit Sandoval and/or Hanley with Lucchino, was Ben really ever the head decision maker?)

 

There are likely very few people outside of the most ardent supporters of Ben Cherington who want to blame someone else for the bad decisions that he made while in charge. Lucchino always served as an adequate scapegoat for those who think that they are sure that they know how all of these guys operate.

[mvp 78]

Are we all not saying the same thing? Screw the job titles. DD became head of day to day baseball operations, the job Ben had. I don't blame Ben for leaving.

 

My only point was I tend to think Henry is a good owner and I'll live with his decision making when it comes to hiring of his direct report. I'm assuming head of baseball operations has to answer to the ownership group.

No.

 

On August 1, 2015, the Red Sox announced that Lucchino was stepping down after the 2015 season.

 

Dombo was hired two weeks later to take over for Larry. Are you saying that Ben left because of 2 weeks believing he’d be president of baseball ops?

[Bellhorn04]

And every time DD signs a major contract, someone excuses it with “Henry signed off on it.” Doesn’t that mean Dombrowski isn’t either? (And given the number of people who credit Sandoval and/or Hanley with Lucchino, was Ben really ever the head decision maker?)

 

I don't think that's true. Most people hold DD responsible for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi.

 

And the stuff about Lucchino being responsible for Sandoval and/or Hanley is all speculation.

[Bellhorn04]

No.

 

On August 1, 2015, the Red Sox announced that Lucchino was stepping down after the 2015 season.

 

Dombo was hired two weeks later to take over for Larry. Are you saying that Ben left because of 2 weeks believing he’d be president of baseball ops?

 

It's totally implausible that Dombo was only hired to do what Larry had been doing (whatever that was). Dombo has always been a head decision-maker. It only makes sense that Henry wanted DD to assume that responsibility with the Red Sox, and that's exactly the way it unfolded.

 

Ben realized he was no longer going to be that guy, and he resigned.

[mvp 78]

I don't think that's true. Most people hold DD responsible for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi.

 

And the stuff about Lucchino being responsible for Sandoval and/or Hanley is all speculation.

 

I blame Werner for Pablo and Hanley.

[moonslav59]

I blame Werner for Pablo and Hanley.

 

I blame Pablito & HanRam.