Who’s to blame...

[moonslav59]

That would have been outstanding .

Call Doc, fire up the delorean , we are sending DD back to December 2018!

 

There are countless choices that would have been just as bad or almost as bad as Eovaldi & Pearce.

[Nick]

Starters are 14-1 with a 1.79 ERA in past 17 games

 

Houston that is......yep easy to see where we are lacking...

[Oscars]

Starters are 14-1 with a 1.79 ERA in past 17 games

 

Houston that is......yep easy to see where we are lacking...

 

That is truly outstanding .

They are my pick to win the World Series with such a well balanced team that does everything well.

[jad]

This season doesn't reflect very well on Cora, obviously.

 

But I thought the parades meant everything to you. That's why I don't get the campaign to crucify him so soon after one.

 

Cora's overall record including postseason, BTW, stands at 178-112 (.614).

 

Bring back Pinkie Higgins!

[oldtimer]

You are right, but had Eovaldi and Pearce stayed healthy, this season did prove we had a need for a SP'er and back-up 1Bman.

 

Moreland got hurt again. (Nobody expected Chavis to shine, and he was needed at 2B anyways)

 

We ended up trading for Cashner as our only move. Clearly, we need a SP'er had we not signed Eovaldi.

 

We only had a limited amount of money to spend. It certainly looks like going over the max penalty line was not allowed.

 

In hindsight, we'd have know Chavis could play 1B and 2B well enough to not be a negative.

 

Signed Charlie Morton at $15M x 2.

 

Signed Adam Ottavino at $9M x 3.

 

We'd have stayed under the max line and been in the race, but it's easy to say this in hindsight.

 

 

The what ifs are fun to talk about, but I am more interested in what we do going forward. I don't blame DD for not making the moves and anticipating our weaknesses. What I do question is whether he is the right GM to lead a team that needs to reset and do some rebuilding. Certainly the Detroit example is not one that gives me any confidence. Some tough choices coming up as your outline did a reasonable job of outlining.

[Slasher9]

are we able to do a full reset next season? or are we already over the first tax threshold?

[jacksonianmarch]

Will be almost impossible to do

[moonslav59]

Will be almost impossible to do

 

If we trade JBJ, Hembree and one other small contract, we can reset by signing nobody.

 

We could also reset by trading JD or Eovaldi while paying part of their contract.

 

After the reset, and maybe a couple decent draft picks by not winning this year and next, we can right the ship by making no mistakes in 2020-2021 FA signings (assuming we go $20-39M over the cap).

[moonslav59]

The what ifs are fun to talk about, but I am more interested in what we do going forward. I don't blame DD for not making the moves and anticipating our weaknesses. What I do question is whether he is the right GM to lead a team that needs to reset and do some rebuilding. Certainly the Detroit example is not one that gives me any confidence. Some tough choices coming up as your outline did a reasonable job of outlining.

 

I doubt DD is the "right guy" to rebuild. His MO is spend & trade for a "win now" philosophy. He is not very good at drafting or acquiring top young talent in other ways.

 

If the plan is to reset in 2020, like I think we should but likely will not, then I would not have DD at the helm.

[Bellhorn04]

If we trade JBJ, Hembree and one other small contract, we can reset by signing nobody.

 

We could also reset by trading JD or Eovaldi while paying part of their contract.

 

After the reset, and maybe a couple decent draft picks by not winning this year and next, we can right the ship by making no mistakes in 2020-2021 FA signings (assuming we go $20-39M over the cap).

 

If they reset this way, they're basically telling the fans the team has no chance in 2020 despite the enormous payroll. They'll look like chumps.

[moonslav59]

are we able to do a full reset next season? or are we already over the first tax threshold?

 

2020 Tax Salary Budget:

$Millions

31.0 Price

25.6 Sale

22.0 JD (assuming option)

20.0 Bogey

17.0 Eovaldi

13.8 Pedey

4.5 Vaz

Total:$134M (7 players)

 

Arbs: (est)

27 Betts (3rd of 3 arbs)

10 JBJ (4 of 4)

9 ERod (3 of 4)

4 Beni (1 of 3)

3 Workman (3 of 3)

3 Barnes (2 of 3)

2 Hembree (2 of 3)

1 Wright (3 of 3)

1 Hernandez (1 of 3)

Total $60M (9 players)

 

Non arbs (24 players on 40 man roster)

Total: $11M

 

40 man roster with no FA signings: $205M +$15M player benefits= $220M

 

The limit is $208M, next year, so to reset, we'll need to trade about $12M in salary and sign no free agents. For argument's sake, let's say we trade JBJ & Hembree and "save" about $12M. This is what we'd have left for 2020:

 

25 man roster

SP: Sale, Price, ERod, Eovaldi, DHern,

RP: Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Walden, Johnson, Velazquez, Brasier, Wright

C: Vazquez, Centeno

1B: Dalbec

2B: Chavis, Hernandez

SS: Bogaerts, Lin or Chatham

3B: Devers

LF: Travis (or JD)

CF: Benintendi

RF: Betts

DH: JD Martinez (or Chavis/Dalbec)

 

The rest of the 40 man roster:

Pedroia IL

Lin or Chatham (1 on 25 man)

Reyes

Lakins

Poyner

Weber

Shawaryn

J Smith

Curletta

Kelley

Ockimey

 

Feltman

Houck

Duran

A Rei

T Ward

[moonslav59]

If they reset this way, they're basically telling the fans the team has no chance in 2020 despite the enormous payroll. They'll look like chumps.

 

The alternative is to deny the inevitable and further the weakening of our farm by continuing restricting international pool money and draft pick penalties.

 

We can't continually spend our way out of every mess and build the farm at the same time.[/b

 

BTW, I mentioned I think we "should" reset and that we "likely will not." We'll probably put it off until 2021 and trade Betts next deadline or let him walk. To me, I'd rather reset in 2020 and try to keep Betts. The fans would be more pissed, if we waited until 2021.

 

I just can't see Henry thinking a reset is not ever going to be needed.

 

If he wouldn't spend at the deadline, why would we think he'd be willing to spend this winter? It would take significant spending to get us back to the top. Massive taxes. Massive penalties that restrict building up the farm.

 

I knew this day was coming and hoped it wouldn't come until 2021 or 2022, but it is here now. Trying to keep this group all together for one more last hurrah only worsens the extended future.

 

(BTW, I don't see us finishing worse than 3rd next year under my suggested plan.)

[dgalehouse]

The alternative is to deny the inevitable and further the weakening of our farm by continuing restricting international pool money and draft pick penalties.

 

We can't continually spend our way out of every mess and build the farm at the same time.[/b

 

BTW, I mentioned I think we "should" reset and that we "likely will not." We'll probably put it off until 2021 and trade Betts next deadline or let him walk. To me, I'd rather reset in 2020 and try to keep Betts. The fans would be more pissed, if we waited until 2021.

 

I just can't see Henry thinking a reset is not ever going to be needed.

 

If he wouldn't spend at the deadline, why would we think he'd be willing to spend this winter? It would take significant spending to get us back to the top. Massive taxes. Massive penalties that restrict building up the farm.

 

I knew this day was coming and hoped it wouldn't come until 2021 or 2022, but it is here now. Trying to keep this group all together for one more last hurrah only worsens the extended future.

 

(BTW, I don't see us finishing worse than 3rd next year under my suggested plan.)

 

Kind of hard to finish worse than third with Toronto and Baltimore in the division.

[Slasher9]

trade Betts this offseason for a minor league haul and save his $20MM off of next years salary to reset fully.

[cp176]

Bring back Pinkie Higgins!

 

Sal Maglie

[notin]

trade Betts this offseason for a minor league haul and save his $20MM off of next years salary to reset fully.

 

I’m all for this in the right deal. It’s a question of finding the right deal.

 

The problem with trading Betts is dealing a player of his caliber rarely returns anything close to equal. The only deal I can think of that comes close was the Guardians trading Bartolo Colon to Montreal for a package that included Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips. And I’m not sure I’d call Colon, even back then, an equal of Betts...

[jad]

Oh sure. Replacing an MVP with a prospect equally good and less than 1/100th the price is simple. Why didn't we think of this earlier?

[notin]

Oh sure. Replacing an MVP with a prospect equally good and less than 1/100th the price is simple. Why didn't we think of this earlier?

 

It depends on the deal.

 

Would you trade Betts for a package headlined by Conforto?

 

Or two elite pitching prospects like Ian Anderson and Kyle Wright from Atlanta?

 

Or to LA for Julio Urias and Joc Peterson and another?

[Slasher9]

Oh sure. Replacing an MVP with a prospect equally good and less than 1/100th the price is simple. Why didn't we think of this earlier?

 

no, i'm trading betts this offseason to reset the LT in 2020. i am getting some pretty good prospects too. then when betts becomes a FA after the 2020 season i sign him to a 10 year contract and bring him back home. but my tax is reset. and i have some prospects in the Farm.

[jad]

no, i'm trading betts this offseason to reset the LT in 2020. i am getting some pretty good prospects too. then when betts becomes a FA after the 2020 season i sign him to a 10 year contract and bring him back home. but my tax is reset. and i have some prospects in the Farm.

 

Ha ha! So when your boss says I'm moving you to Fairbanks for a year, but don't worry, I'll have you come back in a year--now don't you dare negotiate w/ any other employer, and don't sell your house; look, it's only a year and it's for the good of the company ... When your boss tells you that, you're fine with it?

[Slasher9]

Ha ha! So when your boss says I'm moving you to Fairbanks for a year, but don't worry, I'll have you come back in a year--now don't you dare negotiate w/ any other employer, and don't sell your house; look, it's only a year and it's for the good of the company ... When your boss tells you that, you're fine with it?

 

I'm not a professional baseball player. my job (or any other "regular person" white or blue collar) has zero comparability to a professional athlete. they are a commodity that is very very high priced with a very short shelf life.

you and i both know that mookie betts will go to FA and sign the contract with whatever team offers the most $$$. maybe aside from DD smashing out his baby mama on the desk where the contract lays...he will sign with the Sox if they show him the $$$.

[jad]

I'm not a professional baseball player. my job (or any other "regular person" white or blue collar) has zero comparability to a professional athlete. they are a commodity that is very very high priced with a very short shelf life.

you and i both know that mookie betts will go to FA and sign the contract with whatever team offers the most $$$. maybe aside from DD smashing out his baby mama on the desk where the contract lays...he will sign with the Sox if they show him the $$$.

 

I have heard this type of thing suggested many times (was it here? on an NBA board? -- can't remember). But in all seriousness, do you have an example of a case where this has actually worked out? (It may well have; I just can't think of one right off hand; i.e., essentially a 'one year rental' player coming back to the home team).

[moonslav59]

We could have gotten Lester back, but I have no examples.

 

I like the idea of us being the first.

[Bellhorn04]

I have heard this type of thing suggested many times (was it here? on an NBA board? -- can't remember). But in all seriousness, do you have an example of a case where this has actually worked out? (It may well have; I just can't think of one right off hand; i.e., essentially a 'one year rental' player coming back to the home team).

 

The Yankees did it with Chapman.

[harmony]

no, i'm trading betts this offseason to reset the LT in 2020. i am getting some pretty good prospects too. then when betts becomes a FA after the 2020 season i sign him to a 10 year contract and bring him back home. but my tax is reset. and i have some prospects in the Farm.

A 10-year Mookie Betts contract could be the next in a long line of regrettable long-term contracts.

 

Or not.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees did it with Chapman.

 

And got a core player in the swap

[oldtimer]

Betts seems to be in a minislump again. We need more from him and he is trying hard but can't deliver. What a year this is.

[Bellhorn04]

Betts seems to be in a minislump again. We need more from him and he is trying hard but can't deliver. What a year this is.

 

Painful, isn't it?

 

The Red Sox really know how to deliver the highs and the lows.

[notin]

I have heard this type of thing suggested many times (was it here? on an NBA board? -- can't remember). But in all seriousness, do you have an example of a case where this has actually worked out? (It may well have; I just can't think of one right off hand; i.e., essentially a 'one year rental' player coming back to the home team).

 

Aroldis Chapman

[notin]

The Yankees did it with Chapman.

 

The A’s traded Rickey Henderson to Toronto and then signed him back as well...