2019 Trade Deadline Thread

[moonslav59]

Anything that can be had for Moreland and Holt isn’t worth the phone call. Not at first.

 

Sell the other names first. Cashner can be a lower priority as well...

 

Of course, you sell the pieces you can get the most for, first, but you are underselling Holt.

 

Yes, he's been fragile, but he's doing very well and can play many positions.

 

Moreland is worth nothing right now. I am assuming he shows signs of life by the deadline- if not, then nada.

[moonslav59]

Why are you so down on Brock Holt?? He has an OPS >.800 and he's a bench player with the ability to play anyplace, all for $3.5M. He's not the reason this team is losing. Offensively and defensively this team is good enough to be in the thick of things. The team is losing because of the pitching staff.

 

I'm not down on Brock. My point was that IF we become sellers, he should be traded. He's a FA after this season.

 

BTW, he's the only guy I mentioned, "we can re-sign him" out of all the names I said we should offer in trade.

 

Sounds like I value him higher than all the others on my trade list.

[notin]

Rebuilding entails having some depth in your farm to hand the reigns over to. There is nobody in that farm system likely to lead the next chapter. Yes, you can deal off some parts, but there’s no way your GM is gonna deal off guys who will actually return something. If you deal off your rentals, you’ll get scraps. Now, deal Mookie? Then you might be talking about something, but that won’t be enough to rejuvenate a farm that has been raped, pillaged and neglected for four years now.

 

I know you guys think DD has a Chapman deal in him, but that deal was one of many at the time. We had a .300 hitter on his way to 30 homers in Beltran. We had a lock down closer in Chap. We had a shut down reliever in Miller. We dealt all three off for a good return. But we also had Judge, Sanchez, Sevy, Andujar, Montgomery, Bird, and others home grown and MLB ready. This is what you lack. We added to a wave that was coming. There is no wave in The Sox MiLB

 

I’ve been on the “Deal Mookie” bandwagon for some time now...

[a700hitter]

I'm not down on Brock. My point was that IF we become sellers, he should be traded. He's a FA after this season.

 

BTW, he's the only guy I mentioned, "we can re-sign him" out of all the names I said we should offer in trade.

 

Sounds like I value him higher than all the others on my trade list.

I think that we can resign him very cheap. He'll be cheaper than Nunez, and I think he is good value for a couple of more years.

[notin]

I'm not down on Brock. My point was that IF we become sellers, he should be traded. He's a FA after this season.

 

BTW, he's the only guy I mentioned, "we can re-sign him" out of all the names I said we should offer in trade.

 

Sounds like I value him higher than all the others on my trade list.

 

At the deadline, the Sox (or any team) areolikely to make 5 or 6 deals. Too much needs to happen too fast. If they really go into Sell Mode, it makes sense to focus on the more valuable and more sought-after trade pieces. Forget about Moreland, Pearce or Holt unless someone else initiates it. Focus on better trade pieces like Betts, Barnes, Porcello, and Hembree. And maybe Bradley..,

[moonslav59]

Guys, you keep talking about rebuilding. You cannot rebuild. DD traded everything in the minors not nailed down. Your farm is 30th in baseball and the gap from 29 to 30 is wide. I read a recent report on the Sox minor league system that essentially said the talent pool is thin and the upper level prospects are flawed. DD has decimated your farm. When you go to Portland, the earth is salted and the land scorched to the ground with the smoke still apparent. Rebuilding entails a minor league system you plan to hand the reigns to. That doesn’t exist in Boston. DD’s drafts have been horrible. His lack of presence in the DR or IFA realm is puzzling. His penchant for dealing anyone in the minors with the pulse is still going. He sold out for this window. He got the title, so it was worth it. But the cliff is coming and no way DD pushes his team off of it. He’s gonna prop up the mountain as high as he can and the fall will be long and deep

 

You start a rebuild be deciding to suck for a year or 1.3 years (or more for "other teams"). We sell players under team control for 1.3 years or less and maybe others that look like they may not be helpful in 2021 and beyond. I realize we will not get anywhere near the haul you guys got in your sell-off, but it's a start.

 

The next big step is to reset the tax this winter. We get a half way decent draft pick this year, due to finishing in the middle this year and maybe below middle next year.

 

When the 2021 season comes, we'll be able to spend large to fill the many holes. We'll have a few prospects nearing or at ML readiness. It may take longer or much longer than 1.3 years, but we can possibly get back to respectability by 2021 by being a top spender, again- a luxury many rebuilding teams don't have or use.

 

We could have a core of these players for 2021:

Bogey

Devers

ERod

Vaz

Barnes

Maybe JD, Betts and/or Workman (Holt?)

Probably Price & Sale

Chavis, Taylor & Marco

Prospects obtained in trades plus maybe some from Dalbec, Chatham, Duran, DHern, Houk, Feltman, Houk, Ward, Shugart, Lakins, Scherff or Ockimey

 

I realize, we'll need a lot of FAs to fill all the holes, but our budget will be lower and the end of Pedey's deal will be in sight by 2021 and the reset budget tax.

 

[moonslav59]

I think that we can resign him very cheap. He'll be cheaper than Nunez, and I think he is good value for a couple of more years.

 

I agree, and I'd like to tell him we want him back before and during trading him this summer.

 

He'd be a nice piece to a contender in need of bench strengthening.

[jung]

Holt hits to the opposite field. He hits breaking stuff in an environment where pitchers are obviously now throwing more breaking and off speed stuff. He is without question one of the most professional baseball player's in this current crop of modern MLB players. If the Sox think its a pack it in 2020, he probably would be worth trading as much as I would hate to see him go. If somebody made me an offer that was just much more value coming back for Holt, I would very likely have to take them up on that.

[jacksonianmarch]

You aren't gonna get "just as much value" coming back. The hope would be that you get a package of prospects you could dream on. You won't get a blue chipper for him, but if I were Dave, I would be diving deep. You can get some really good prospects if you decide to deal for players in the short season leagues. The closer the proximity, the less of a return

[moonslav59]

Holt hits to the opposite field. He hits breaking stuff in an environment where pitchers are obviously now throwing more breaking and off speed stuff. He is without question one of the most professional baseball player's in this current crop of modern MLB players. If the Sox think its a pack it in 2020, he probably would be worth trading as much as I would hate to see him go. If somebody made me an offer that was just much more value coming back for Holt, I would very likely have to take them up on that.

 

Assuming we become sellers, I'd trade him for the best offer and then try to re-sign him next winter.

[dgalehouse]

While it is certainly disappointing for a 119 win , world championship team to be reduced to chasing a wild card spot the following year , that is the current situation. However , it is not reason to throw in the towel and just give up . We all should know that, in the post season , anything can happen. A team can get hot and / or lucky and win it all . Just have to get there first . The next two weeks will tell a lot . Don't start liquidating just yet .

[moonslav59]

While it is certainly disappointing for a 119 win , world championship team to be reduced to chasing a wild card spot the following year , that is the current situation. However , it is not reason to throw in the towel and just give up . We all should know that, in the post season , anything can happen. A team can get hot and / or lucky and win it all . Just have to get there first . The next two weeks will tell a lot . Don't start liquidating just yet .

 

I've not given up. In fact, I think we should make 1-2 trades right now to get better (2 solid RP'ers).

 

However, we can't just decide on July 30th to sell. We need to put out feelers now, just in case.

 

Plan to win this year, but also plan to sell off, if we look hapless over the next 2 weeks.

[a700hitter]

I agree, and I'd like to tell him we want him back before and during trading him this summer.

 

He'd be a nice piece to a contender in need of bench strengthening.

Once he packs up and goes somewhere else and finds out that other cities have more to offer with less traffic, he may not want to come back.

[notin]

Once he packs up and goes somewhere else and finds out that other cities have more to offer with less traffic, he may not want to come back.

 

Then we’ll trade him to Detroit.

[moonslav59]

Then we’ll trade him to Detroit.

Cleveland or Oakland might be more likely.

[a700hitter]

Then we’ll trade him to Detroit.

Property values are very reasonable n Detroit. Pus, the Tigers will be sellers.

[dgalehouse]

Brock Holt might actually help the Tigers win a game . And that would be counter productive to their goals . Not going to happen .

[oldtimer]

You start a rebuild be deciding to suck for a year or 1.3 years (or more for "other teams"). We sell players under team control for 1.3 years or less and maybe others that look like they may not be helpful in 2021 and beyond. I realize we will not get anywhere near the haul you guys got in your sell-off, but it's a start.

 

The next big step is to reset the tax this winter. We get a half way decent draft pick this year, due to finishing in the middle this year and maybe below middle next year.

 

When the 2021 season comes, we'll be able to spend large to fill the many holes. We'll have a few prospects nearing or at ML readiness. It may take longer or much longer than 1.3 years, but we can possibly get back to respectability by 2021 by being a top spender, again- a luxury many rebuilding teams don't have or use.

 

We could have a core of these players for 2021:

Bogey

Devers

ERod

Vaz

Barnes

Maybe JD, Betts and/or Workman (Holt?)

Probably Price & Sale

Chavis, Taylor & Marco

Prospects obtained in trades plus maybe some from Dalbec, Chatham, Duran, DHern, Houk, Feltman, Houk, Ward, Shugart, Lakins, Scherff or Ockimey

 

I realize, we'll need a lot of FAs to fill all the holes, but our budget will be lower and the end of Pedey's deal will be in sight by 2021 and the reset budget tax.

 

 

I have been of the opinion for some time that the Sox would stuggle to make the WC game while several other contenders for those slots have been playing better. It has resulted from a weak starting pitching rotation, an inconsistent BP and in many cases, a lack of timely hitting. I do believe by the end of July, we will see the need and undertake to made several trades to lower our payroll and to get resources that may help us in 2020 and 2021.

 

Most of the MLBB teams have front offices that havee talented baseball people, so any trade would likelyhave to be beneficial to both teams.Not so easy to pull off. I advocated a plan B be pursued in which we hold on to key assets going forward. They include Devers, Bogie and Vaz, E-Rod and Price. Beyond those, there are other players I would be reluctant to trade away as they could be important elements in 2020 and beyond. Those include Beni, Chavis, Barnes, Marco, Workman, Holt and Taylor. Betts is a special case. He is a very good player but has not performed like a great one. We should offer a good contract for him considering his real performance. If he rejects that and thinks someone will pay him significantly more, then we should actively trade him. The Same is true with JDM, he is a very good player and I would like to keep him for the duration of our contract, yet if he decides to opt out then we should get something in return. I also think that JBJ will cost more than he is worth and should be traded.

 

Moreland, Travis, Nunez, Pedroia, Pearce, and leon should be gone and replaced.

 

As far as the BP is involved, I would continue to watch those not mentioned to see if we have keepers there. Eovaldi is a special case who may be a starter next season or may turn into an acceptable closer I would also bring up some of our more promising Minor league players and see who among them really may have a future with the club in the next couple of years.

 

My concept of executing plan B is to look for continuous improvement. Those we trade should allow us to improve both our starting pitching and relief pitching. Those holes we create in our team like CF, Backup Catcher, DH if JDM opts out and RF if Betts contract demands exceed how we see his worth., should be filled with better than what we lose (except in the case of Betts and JDM that might not be possible and we might have to obtain quality prospects or pitchers for them).

 

 

My idea is to trim payroll, get rid of the oft injured or deadwood on the team, be decisive with our stars, look for improvement in our weak areas. In my opinion, we can field at least a competitive team in 2020 and perhaps get back on the road to being a top AL team in 2021.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Speaking of Mitch .What the hell ? Where is this guy ? When's he coming back ?

[jung]

Speaking of Mitch .What the hell ? Where is this guy ? When's he coming back ?

 

hasn't restarted a rehab assignment yet. However the "hope" expressed by Sox brass is that he will be back for the O's. Not sure who's ******* they are pulling that from if he is yet to restart a rehab assignment.

[moonslav59]

Cots has us at spending $236M this season, and here we are. Yes, Eovaldi, Moreland and other have been hurt, but look at the other teams:

 

NYY have had tons of injuries and are spending more than $30M less than us.

 

TBR has a budget almost 1/4th ours.

 

CLE has a budget just over half of ours, lost Brantley and others to free agency and Kluber & Carrasco to injuries.

 

Oak has a budget of about 40% of ours.

 

No excuses. I still think we have a better team, on paper, than most of these teams, but we are where we are. We have 2 weeks to turn things around, of I'll be leading the big sell parade bandwagon.

[notin]

Brock Holt might actually help the Tigers win a game . And that would be counter productive to their goals . Not going to happen .

 

Yeah but the idea was to send Holt to a city he where he will not enjoy life and forget about Boston...

[oldtimer]

Cots has us at spending $236M this season, and here we are. Yes, Eovaldi, Moreland and other have been hurt, but look at the other teams:

 

NYY have had tons of injuries and are spending more than $30M less than us.

 

TBR has a budget almost 1/4th ours.

 

CLE has a budget just over half of ours, lost Brantley and others to free agency and Kluber & Carrasco to injuries.

 

Oak has a budget of about 40% of ours.

 

No excuses. I still think we have a better team, on paper, than most of these teams, but we are where we are. We have 2 weeks to turn things around, of I'll be leading the big sell parade bandwagon.

 

i don't see how you think the Sox look like a better team on paper. Starting pitching is below average, BP is inconsistent and without a closer. Only Devers, Bogie, Vaz and Holt are having good years ans Holt has been there part time. The Sox are not turning this around against the Yankees and Rays. Get ready to sell.

[jacksonianmarch]

Those second contracts are where DD has tripped up. They’re franchise killers. Cabrera’s second contract is literally going to sandbag Detroit for the next 4-5 years. Sale’s second contract is gonna be a killer. Eovaldi’s second contract is already proving a loss. The only one he signed that looks good is Bogey’s and that wasn’t by design. Bogey decided to push the issue and took less money. Sale’s contract doesn’t even start til next year. Good luck with 5 years of that crap. DD hasn’t learned from the past. Yes, your payroll is way above everyone else’s but that’s only because DD can’t let go of the past. Retooling is something that EVERY franchise does on a yearly basis. You can’t just keep the band together and expect the same results. Tweaking is needed for every team, and if you aren’t getting better, you’re getting worse.

[Bellhorn04]

Those second contracts are where DD has tripped up. They’re franchise killers. Cabrera’s second contract is literally going to sandbag Detroit for the next 4-5 years. Sale’s second contract is gonna be a killer. Eovaldi’s second contract is already proving a loss. The only one he signed that looks good is Bogey’s and that wasn’t by design. Bogey decided to push the issue and took less money. Sale’s contract doesn’t even start til next year. Good luck with 5 years of that crap. DD hasn’t learned from the past. Yes, your payroll is way above everyone else’s but that’s only because DD can’t let go of the past. Retooling is something that EVERY franchise does on a yearly basis. You can’t just keep the band together and expect the same results. Tweaking is needed for every team, and if you aren’t getting better, you’re getting worse.

 

No doubt some of the criticisms are warranted, but it's amusing how you leave out or downplay anything that might reflect well.

 

You left out Verlander.

 

You make Bogey sound like DD didn't even have anything to do with it.

 

You liked the Eovaldi signing and wanted the Yanks to sign him.

 

Funny s***.

[notin]

No doubt some of the criticisms are warranted, but it's amusing how you leave out or downplay anything that might reflect well.

 

You left out Verlander.

 

You make Bogey sound like DD didn't even have anything to do with it.

 

You liked the Eovaldi signing and wanted the Yanks to sign him.

 

Funny s***.

 

Not to mention the assumption that Sale is done. Sale’s peripherals are remarkably similar to his 2016 season, which wasn’t the end of his career, either. His HR/FB% is up this year, but whose isn’t?

[oldtimer]

We are carrying Pedroia in a lost contract and of course Sandoval this year from a different era. Between them we are wasting over 31 million. In a sense, I agree that standing still, even with a WC team really means your going backwards. When you take Kimbrall out of the equation, we are going backwards rather quickly. Turns out resigning Pearce, Nunez , Leon and JBJ hasn't helped out cause and then to have Betts, Beni and JDM to have reduced years. When players have great years, it is likely the next will be good but not great. We were fortunate to have Devers become all world annd both Bogie and Vaz show great improvement. Where would we be withoout them? Then there is the pitching. Long term contracts for older pitchers can work and may still, but there is a high risk associated with those contracts.

[notin]

We are carrying Pedroia in a lost contract and of course Sandoval this year from a different era. Between them we are wasting over 31 million. In a sense, I agree that standing still, even with a WC team really means your going backwards. When you take Kimbrall out of the equation, we are going backwards rather quickly. Turns out resigning Pearce, Nunez , Leon and JBJ hasn't helped out cause and then to have Betts, Beni and JDM to have reduced years. When players have great years, it is likely the next will be good but not great. We were fortunate to have Devers become all world annd both Bogie and Vaz show great improvement. Where would we be withoout them? Then there is the pitching. Long term contracts for older pitchers can work and may still, but there is a high risk associated with those contracts.

 

While I questioned Eovaldi at the time and Pearce after other facts were known, bringing back Bradley (who is still in arbitration) was the right move and Nunez exercised his player option, so DD had no choice in the matter this off-season.

 

The Red Sox do have about $31mill in AAV tied up in Sandoval and Pedroia, but they still have over $200 mill in other players and plenty of teams have more money tied up in bad/inactive contracts or spend well under $200mill (or both) and have found a way to stay competitive. Those deals really aren’t some huge insurmountable constraint...

[Kimmi]

While it is certainly disappointing for a 119 win , world championship team to be reduced to chasing a wild card spot the following year , that is the current situation. However , it is not reason to throw in the towel and just give up . We all should know that, in the post season , anything can happen. A team can get hot and / or lucky and win it all . Just have to get there first . The next two weeks will tell a lot . Don't start liquidating just yet .

 

People are talking crazy talk.

 

We will not be sellers. We are not going to blow this team up.

[notin]

People are talking crazy talk.

 

We will not be sellers. We are not going to blow this team up.

 

I don’t think the Sox will be sellers. But I do think thy should be sellers...