The annual Jackie Bradley Jr thread (2019 Edition)

[cp176]

I’m not so sure the Sox aren’t trying to replace JBJ. Chavis is reportedly looking at outfield time. And he isn’t going out there to replace Betts.

 

Maybe the Sox might occasionally try Chavis in LF and slide Benintendi over to CF?

 

 

I'm going to hate seeing Chavis moved to the outfield but they are going to have to come up with some original way of keeping him with us when Pedroia returns for at least as long as he continues to be a plus in the lineup. i would not move Betts anywhere. He is a comfortable gold glover in a tough to play right field for us.

If Chavis continues to hit, he won't be going anywhere. Tough tough decisions to be made. The easy way out is to say that if the team is winning, JBJ stays put. i don't think that it is going to be that easy. He is going to have to start doing something at the plate in order to stay in that everyday lineup. Maybe tonight - JBJ.

[jung]

I’m not so sure the Sox aren’t trying to replace JBJ. Chavis is reportedly looking at outfield time. And he isn’t going out there to replace Betts.

 

Maybe the Sox might occasionally try Chavis in LF and slide Benintendi over to CF?

 

Beni is a lousy CFer. So I doubt that is the plan. We would have a novice LFer and and a lousy CFer at the same time. I do think the Sox are going to try to find multiple ways to get Chavis bat in the lineup including an occasional stint in the OF which I would not recommend, at least not in Fenway. Fenway is still the most physically dangerous OF in baseball. We don't need more Bump Bailey (The Natural) events in our OF. Had enough already thank you. Chavis occasionally at DH makes more sense.

[moonslav59]

By the way - I think the days of covering for JBJ and his elite glove are likely coming to an end. What he gives us does not in any way make him indispensable no matter how much people happen to like him. i hope that he starts to hit because if he doesn't he won't continue to get a free pass.

 

Well said.

[cp176]

Every starting player was 25 and under except for Yaz (27). That team was really young. George Scott, Rico, Yaz, Tony C, Reggie Smith and Hawk. Those were 6 really good to great players that were the real foundation of what made 1967 special and were all just really starting their careers. The only reason that group didn't see sustained success together was because the pitching was very mediocre.

 

To give the majority of the credit to Dick Williams and not the young players that matured and gelled together is just absurd to me.

 

 

The maturation and the gelling happened in 1967 with Williams leading the way. To not give an ample share of the credit to the manager for that is no being realistic in my opinion. Don't forget Mike Andrews and Joe Foy out there either. I also think that people tend to forget that this lineup was actually held together on occasion by quite a number of past their prime professionals brought in because of the youth and the injuries that occurred. We obviously have an ample share of Yankee haters on here but given the state of our catching in 1967, I could not have been happier when a way past his prime Elston Howard was acquired. Our young stars were really great but there is no way that team had a right to think that they would be playing in the World Series that fall. They all get to share the credit equally of course except for Yaz (who should get most of it). I don't think that is ever going to be possible to come to consensus as to who was the best this and that. I'm guilty I guess of not thinking that winning a title gives a manager a free pass when it comes to how good they are or were. 1967 and 2018 in that order I think are my two most memorable seasons. Part of the reason would be because they had the right guys running the show.

[jung]

I'm going to hate seeing Chavis moved to the outfield but they are going to have to come up with some original way of keeping him with us when Pedroia returns for at least as long as he continues to be a plus in the lineup. i would not move Betts anywhere. He is a comfortable gold glover in a tough to play right field for us.

If Chavis continues to hit, he won't be going anywhere. Tough tough decisions to be made. The easy way out is to say that if the team is winning, JBJ stays put. i don't think that it is going to be that easy. He is going to have to start doing something at the plate in order to stay in that everyday lineup. Maybe tonight - JBJ.

 

 

Depends on who else in in the lineup.

 

JBJ, Vaz and Moreland are OK in the same lineup. JBJ, Sandy and Pearce together are downright embarrassing or JBJ, Lin, Sandy and Pearce which would be downright pathetic. Even JBJ, Sandy, Pearce and Holt together might be downright pathetic.

 

As for Pedey, if he ever plays as many as 8 games in two weeks this year I will be very surprised. If he does I would expect to see him back on the shelf AGAIN. Don't think this is working out for Pedey.

Edited May 10, 2019 by jung

[Maxbialystock]

Well said.

 

Interesting. I would have thought you were a diehard JBJ supporter--a believer that his glove transcends all else.

[mvp 78]

The maturation and the gelling happened in 1967 with Williams leading the way. To not give an ample share of the credit to the manager for that is no being realistic in my opinion. Don't forget Mike Andrews and Joe Foy out there either. I also think that people tend to forget that this lineup was actually held together on occasion by quite a number of past their prime professionals brought in because of the youth and the injuries that occurred. We obviously have an ample share of Yankee haters on here but given the state of our catching in 1967, I could not have been happier when a way past his prime Elston Howard was acquired. Our young stars were really great but there is no way that team had a right to think that they would be playing in the World Series that fall. They all get to share the credit equally of course except for Yaz (who should get most of it). I don't think that is ever going to be possible to come to consensus as to who was the best this and that. I'm guilty I guess of not thinking that winning a title gives a manager a free pass when it comes to how good they are or were. 1967 and 2018 in that order I think are my two most memorable seasons. Part of the reason would be because they had the right guys running the show.

 

My problem is that the manager gets too much credit in this case. He was an ok manager for the Sox. He wasn't the reason they had the Impossible Dream. The reason they had success was the young players who were on the roster. If you want to give 20% of the credit to the manager, fine. However, people talk about Dick Williams as if he was the greatest thing the Sox ever had. It just wasn't the case.

 

The reason Dick made the HOF wasn't because of the Sox, it was because his next managerial gig was for the A's who were a budding dynasty at that point.

[notin]

Beni is a lousy CFer. So I doubt that is the plan. We would have a novice LFer and and a lousy CFer at the same time. I do think the Sox are going to try to find multiple ways to get Chavis bat in the lineup including an occasional stint in the OF which I would not recommend, at least not in Fenway. Fenway is still the most physically dangerous OF in baseball. We don't need more Bump Bailey (The Natural) events in our OF. Had enough already thank you. Chavis occasionally at DH makes more sense.

 

 

Whether or not Chavis makes more sense at DH is not the question. This is about reports the Sox are considering Chavis in the outfield, which is not a personal theory of mine, but apparently something the Sox are considering.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/05/red-sox-rumors-michael-chavis-outfield-utility.html

 

 

Now it’s very possible that it’s simply getting more media attention than it deserves, or maybe it’s being mentioned as imminent when really the Sox brass are talking about 2020. No idea.

 

But if Chavis is to move to the outfield, who do you think he’d be replacing? Since it clearly isn’t Betts (barring an unreported plan to return him to 2b), that leaves Benintendi or Bradley.

 

Maybe the plan is to platoon him with Beninntendi in LF? But that would limit him in the lineup to days against LHP, which defeats the purpose of trying to find a place for him. Or maybe the plan is to shuffle one of the corners to CF and stuck Chavis in as a replacement. And if so, Chavis in RF at Fenway is a worse idea than Benintendi in CF...

[kenmeister]

Beni is a lousy CFer. So I doubt that is the plan. We would have a novice LFer and and a lousy CFer at the same time. I do think the Sox are going to try to find multiple ways to get Chavis bat in the lineup including an occasional stint in the OF which I would not recommend, at least not in Fenway. Fenway is still the most physically dangerous OF in baseball. We don't need more Bump Bailey (The Natural) events in our OF. Had enough already thank you. Chavis occasionally at DH makes more sense.

 

If Beni is a lousy CFer, why does he play CF over Mookie when JBJ sits?

[Bellhorn04]

My problem is that the manager gets too much credit in this case. He was an ok manager for the Sox. He wasn't the reason they had the Impossible Dream. The reason they had success was the young players who were on the roster. If you want to give 20% of the credit to the manager, fine. However, people talk about Dick Williams as if he was the greatest thing the Sox ever had. It just wasn't the case.

 

The reason Dick made the HOF wasn't because of the Sox, it was because his next managerial gig was for the A's who were a budding dynasty at that point.

 

Dick was obviously a 'wear out your welcome' guy too.

[kenmeister]

Well said.

 

I was morbidly curious how JBJ stacks among qualified batting leaders in the AL.

 

Batting average: 88/88

On-base percentage: 87/88 (Chris Owings is 88)

Slugging percentage: 88/88

OPS: 88/88

WAR: 88/88 (by far, too)

 

JBJ and Chris Owings are the two worst in each category.

 

Also, looking at the 88 qualifying batters for RBIs, JBJ is tied for last with 5 with Billy Hamilton.

 

All in all, I've honestly never seen a worse start to a season by any non-catcher.

[Station 13]

Chris Davis start the season 0-53 now has a higher batting average over Bradley.

 

JBJ has 2 XBH over the last month! Hitting .123 in the process.

 

How can an athlete be this bad??

[cp176]

My problem is that the manager gets too much credit in this case. He was an ok manager for the Sox. He wasn't the reason they had the Impossible Dream. The reason they had success was the young players who were on the roster. If you want to give 20% of the credit to the manager, fine. However, people talk about Dick Williams as if he was the greatest thing the Sox ever had. It just wasn't the case.

 

The reason Dick made the HOF wasn't because of the Sox, it was because his next managerial gig was for the A's who were a budding dynasty at that point.

 

I'm not really disagreeing with you here. At least I don't think that I am. I think that it is human nature to give too much credit to a coach when a team wins and too much blame when they don't. In 1967, I truly think that Dick Williams was the perfect fit for this team. he did an excellent job. That doesn't mean that I think that he was a world beater, just the right guy at the right time. Did what needed to be done to help change a sad culture of losing that had been established and accepted as the norm. For that reason alone, he obviously is going to be near the top of my list. And just for the record, I think that giving a manager 20% of a teams credit for wins and losses is grossly too high. Equal shares for all. Good managers will take the blame for the losses but really want the credit for the wins to go to their players. It is ok with me too if people disagree with me about Williams. I was 16 and never thought that I would see anything close to what we saw in 1967 and and the springboard of success that it has led to.

1. If Conigliaro had not been injured I still think that we would have won that series in '67.

2. If Rice had not been injured in '75, i think that we would have won that one as well.

[Bellhorn04]

Chris Davis start the season 0-53 now has a higher batting average over Bradley.

 

JBJ has 2 XBH over the last month! Hitting .123 in the process.

 

How can an athlete be this bad??

 

How can an athlete who OPS'd over .800 from July to October of last year be this bad?

 

Because generally speaking, hitting major league pitching is really freaking hard.

 

And JBJ is obviously a guy who constantly struggles with his mechanics.

[mvp 78]

Dick was obviously a 'wear out your welcome' guy too.

 

Maybe he sticks around in Oakland for a while if ownership weren't turds, but Dick definitely had a shelf life. For all the reasons stated, I just can't call him the greatest Sox manager of all time. I just can't. He was a very good manager for the Sox, but I think Cora and Tito (slam dunk future HOFer) were much better. To me, Dick was basically the same as Joe Morgan in terms of Sox manager ability.

[cp176]

Maybe he sticks around in Oakland for a while if ownership weren't turds, but Dick definitely had a shelf life. For all the reasons stated, I just can't call him the greatest Sox manager of all time. I just can't. He was a very good manager for the Sox, but I think Cora and Tito (slam dunk future HOFer) were much better. To me, Dick was basically the same as Joe Morgan in terms of Sox manager ability.

 

It is a personal opinion based on what your criteria is that you use. Times have changed. I want Cora to be successful and i do think that Francona was as well. All good managers in their time here - hopefully Cora sticks around. No offense to either Francona or Cora but with the talent they have and had, I think that most of us would be disappointed if they did not win. The test of any coach is is your team better at the end of a season then they are at the beginning? Did they improve? The '67 Sox surpassed all of our expectations.

[moonslav59]

Interesting. I would have thought you were a diehard JBJ supporter--a believer that his glove transcends all else.

 

I'm JBJs biggest fan, but no great defense makes up for a .409 OPS. I'd give him a couple more weeks.

[mvp 78]

It is a personal opinion based on what your criteria is that you use. Times have changed. I want Cora to be successful and i do think that Francona was as well. All good managers in their time here - hopefully Cora sticks around. No offense to either Francona or Cora but with the talent they have and had, I think that most of us would be disappointed if they did not win. The test of any coach is is your team better at the end of a season then they are at the beginning? Did they improve? The '67 Sox surpassed all of our expectations.

 

How many wins did the Sox have last year? Did that not exceed anyone's expectations?

[notin]

I'm JBJs biggest fan, but no great defense makes up for a .409 OPS. I'd give him a couple more weeks.

 

And then what?

 

Worth pointing out fellow defense-oriented center fielders Mallex Smith was demoted while hitting better (.509 OPS) than Bradley and Keon Braxton is in danger of being released while only slightly worse (.394 in 50 PA) than Bradley.

 

I’ve defended JBJ plenty based upon his defense and that he bats eighth, but he needs to get on some sort of streak. The only thing going for him is the atrocious outfield depth the Sox have right now. But even still, Gorkys Hernandez is probably checking out Boston-area housing...

[sk7326]

If Bradley continues to stink, putting Martinez or Chavis in LF and moving Benintendi to CF is the move ... which hurts defensively but is not fatal.

[mvp 78]

And then what?

 

Worth pointing out fellow defense-oriented center fielders Mallex Smith was demoted while hitting better (.509 OPS) than Bradley and Keon Braxton is in danger of being released while only slightly worse (.394 in 50 PA) than Bradley.

 

I’ve defended JBJ plenty based upon his defense and that he bats eighth, but he needs to get on some sort of streak. The only thing going for him is the atrocious outfield depth the Sox have right now. But even still, Gorkys Hernandez is probably checking out Boston-area housing...

 

Mallex Smith is defensive oriented? With his negative career dWAR, no wonder he got demoted. Braxton is definitely a poor man's JBJ.

 

The only way JBJ gets benched long term is if they bring up Castillo (i.e. it's not gonna happen).

[Slasher9]

if JBj does not get it going this homestand i expect the following on the next road trip:

JDM/Chavis RF / Betts CF

when they come back home they may give JBj another chance or it will be:

JDM/Chavis LF / Benni CF / Betts RF

 

Betts will play CF on the road, and RF in spacious Fenway Park.

Benni is a terrible CF but keeping Betts in RF at home will be the priority.

IMO of course......

 

hopefully JBj gets a few knocks this weekend to put all this on hold....

[mvp 78]

We already saw Wily Mo play RF at Fenway, so the sequel of Chavis playing RF at Fenway may not be so bad.

[moonslav59]

And then what?

 

Worth pointing out fellow defense-oriented center fielders Mallex Smith was demoted while hitting better (.509 OPS) than Bradley and Keon Braxton is in danger of being released while only slightly worse (.394 in 50 PA) than Bradley.

 

I’ve defended JBJ plenty based upon his defense and that he bats eighth, but he needs to get on some sort of streak. The only thing going for him is the atrocious outfield depth the Sox have right now. But even still, Gorkys Hernandez is probably checking out Boston-area housing...

 

I'm not sure what other options there are, other than picking up a DMac/Podsednik type cheapee.

 

I don't like risking JD's health by playing him in the OF any more than just in NL parks or emergency situations.

 

Moving Chavis to the OF, so Pedey gets another look may give JBJ the sit-down/phantom IL he may need very soon.

 

I've not given up on JBJ, but a continuing .409 OPS is unacceptable.

[a700hitter]

I'm not sure what other options there are, other than picking up a DMac/Podsednik type cheapee.

 

I don't like risking JD's health by playing him in the OF any more than just in NL parks or emergency situations.

 

Moving Chavis to the OF, so Pedey gets another look may give JBJ the sit-down/phantom IL he may need very soon.

 

I've not given up on JBJ, but a continuing .409 OPS is unacceptable.

Betts was also an infielder who was moved to the OF so Pedey could play 2B, What is the ETA on Pedey's activation?

[Maxbialystock]

How many wins did the Sox have last year? Did that not exceed anyone's expectations?

 

On top of that, you have to look at the individual games to realize Cora made an awful lot of good decisions. Of course the players get the lion's share of the credit. It's why the get the big bucks. But Cora was pretty darn impressive, especially, as you say, when those guys vastly outperformed any reasonable expectation, especially in the postseason.

[Maxbialystock]

And then what?

 

Worth pointing out fellow defense-oriented center fielders Mallex Smith was demoted while hitting better (.509 OPS) than Bradley and Keon Braxton is in danger of being released while only slightly worse (.394 in 50 PA) than Bradley.

 

I’ve defended JBJ plenty based upon his defense and that he bats eighth, but he needs to get on some sort of streak. The only thing going for him is the atrocious outfield depth the Sox have right now. But even still, Gorkys Hernandez is probably checking out Boston-area housing...

 

I'm anti-JBJ, I guess, but I agree that right now he is the best option. Keeping him in the lineup right now is helped by having 8 decent bats--Beni, Betts, JDM, Bogie, Devers, Chavis, Moreland, and Vazquez--in there with him. Also, for every brilliant defensive game JBJ has, there are maybe 5 or even 10 games when his skills don't make a big difference.

[moonslav59]

Betts was also an infielder who was moved to the OF so Pedey could play 2B, What is the ETA on Pedey's activation?

 

I'm not sure anyone knows.

 

I'm ready to give up hope and think this should probably be his last chance.

 

I certainly don't want Chavis benched, so Pedey can play, but Pedey might only play no more than 50-60% of the time, so finding other ways to keep Chavis in the line-up should be possible.

 

If Pedey plays 3 out of 7 games at 2B, Chavis can play 4 at 2B and 2-3 at 3B, 1B, DH or OF.

[notin]

We already saw Wily Mo play RF at Fenway, so the sequel of Chavis playing RF at Fenway may not be so bad.

 

 

So bench Betts?

 

If your plan was to move Betts to CF and Chavis in RF, is that really better than having Benintendi in CF and Betts in RF?

[notin]

Betts was also an infielder who was moved to the OF so Pedey could play 2B, What is the ETA on Pedey's activation?

 

 

I think Betts move to the OF was heavily influenced by Bradley’s inability to hit. Also why the Sox signed Castillo...