Devers

[S5Dewey]

You are pretty reasonable, Denny.

 

I agree, and in addition you're also respectful of other's opinions. That's not to say that you agree with everyone on everything but you're able to respond and make your case in a respectful way.

[cp176]

Not me . I always try to be objective. The voice of reason , if you will . Probably too old school , but reasonable nonetheless.

 

Oh I too find you very reasonable, especially when I agree with you and vice versa. Now that I mention it though, normally it is only the people that never agree with me that I find unreasonable. Pretty unusual point of view don't you think?

[mvp 78]

That's true. But the flip side also happens. Fans pointing out former Red Sox players who are doing well, and complaining about them being let go instead of Player X who was kept instead.

 

Sports fans are miserable, hateful pricks, generally speaking.

 

Ain’t that the truth. It’s why I need to take a lot of breaks. It’s a s***** culture.

[Slasher9]

Ghost , Many on here do not pull for a player who is gone . They want him to fail . They want to justify their opinion. Swihart is gone , but he will continue to be kicked .

 

That's true. But the flip side also happens. Fans pointing out former Red Sox players who are doing well, and complaining about them being let go instead of Player X who was kept instead.

 

Sports fans are miserable, hateful pricks, generally speaking.

 

spot on posts

[jad]

I have never understood the animosity for former players one finds in sports. True, when your now-ex leaves you, you are p.o'd. But sports isn't life, and once I get familiar w/ a player on one team, I will always keep an eye out for him on the next. So yes, I like Ellsbury (horribile dictu); I want Puig to do well (LA connections); Clemens, Boggs, etc. If I rooted for them on one team, I will do the same when they move. Why anyone would claim that fierce loyalty to a local team above all else is a virtue is beyond me, and I've been a RS fan for almost 7 decades.

[Thunder]

I have never understood the animosity for former players one finds in sports. True, when your now-ex leaves you, you are p.o'd. But sports isn't life, and once I get familiar w/ a player on one team, I will always keep an eye out for him on the next. So yes, I like Ellsbury (horribile dictu); I want Puig to do well (LA connections); Clemens, Boggs, etc. If I rooted for them on one team, I will do the same when they move. Why anyone would claim that fierce loyalty to a local team above all else is a virtue is beyond me, and I've been a RS fan for almost 7 decades.

 

Yep. I couldn't agree more. Bellhorn made a good point too. I loved David Ross so much in 2013 when he was here, and was pulling for him with the Cubs in 2016. Jon Lester remains one of my favorite MLB players to this day, and I enjoyed seeing Travis Shaw have a great year last year. Right after we dumped Middlebrooks, I followed him closely for awhile as well.

 

This isn't a situation with a former Red Sox player, but my favorite MLB player ever (or at least currently playing) is George Springer, with Aaron Judge right up there as well. Nobody made it a rule that you have to hate everybody that's not on your team

[moonslav59]

Yep. I couldn't agree more. Bellhorn made a good point too. I loved David Ross so much in 2013 when he was here, and was pulling for him with the Cubs in 2016. Jon Lester remains one of my favorite MLB players to this day, and I enjoyed seeing Travis Shaw have a great year last year. Right after we dumped Middlebrooks, I followed him closely for awhile as well.

 

This isn't a situation with a former Red Sox player, but my favorite MLB player ever (or at least currently playing) is George Springer, with Aaron Judge right up there as well. Nobody made it a rule that you have to hate everybody that's not on your team

 

...unless they're a Yankee.

[Thunder]

...unless they're a Yankee.

 

Nope. Not even if they're a Yankee. Re-read my point about Judge. I love Judge, always loved Jeter. Both do/did everything the right way

[moonslav59]

Nope. Not even if they're a Yankee. Re-read my point about Judge. I love Judge, always loved Jeter. Both do/did everything the right way

 

Jeter was a prima donna who sucked on defense.

 

Judge is good, but he's a Yankee.

 

Re-read my point: Yankees suck!

[Slasher9]

Jeter threw a hissy fit when Arod is brought in and forced the GOAT SS of alltime to move to 3b

Jeter threw a hissy fit and forced the yankees to overpay him on his last contract. threatening to play elsewhere.

Jeter threw a hissy fit and forced the yankees to put re2pect and 2 on their uniforms and hats for the last month of his final season. the distraction this caused resulted in the yankees missing the postseason for the first time in over a decade.

he also kicks puppies when no one is looking.

[SoxnCycles]

Jeter threw a hissy fit when Arod is brought in and forced the GOAT SS of alltime to move to 3b

Jeter threw a hissy fit and forced the yankees to overpay him on his last contract. threatening to play elsewhere.

Jeter threw a hissy fit and forced the yankees to put re2pect and 2 on their uniforms and hats for the last month of his final season. the distraction this caused resulted in the yankees missing the postseason for the first time in over a decade.

he also kicks puppies when no one is looking.

 

All BS!

Except for that last part...

[mvp 78]

Nope. Not even if they're a Yankee. Re-read my point about Judge. I love Judge, always loved Jeter. Both do/did everything the right way

 

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[moonslav59]

All BS!

Except for that last part...

 

Jeter was the worst defensive SS in MLB during his career.

 

Why else did they move ARod not Jeter?

 

(Nomar agreed to move.)

[jacksonianmarch]

That’s an exaggeration if I ever heard one. He was average to below average. He clearly wasn’t the worst

[Thunder]

Jeter was a prima donna who sucked on defense.

 

Judge is good, but he's a Yankee.

 

Re-read my point: Yankees suck!

 

I'm not arguing that the Yankees don't suck, I'm arguing that they can still have players that you can like and root for

[Slasher9]

All BS!

Except for that last part...

 

lol. sup SnC.

we are finally winning some games. .500 tonight.

[jung]

You said Devers was basically easy to replace. You brought up Dalbec as a minor leaguer who could easily replace him. You consider Devers' defense a detriment to the team. Sounds like you want Devers replaced, one way or another.

 

It is a pretty heavily RHed lineup we have right now. All we have to do is look at the last two series to see what happens to teams with limited lineup flexibility the way the game is played today. I would be reluctant to give up on Devers. He appears now down to the kinds of stupid rather unprofessional fielding mistakes common to this generation of young players....does not work hard enough on his footwork, leaves himself in poor position to field the ball cleanly, takes his God given talent too much for granted and does not work hard enough to build on it. Sort of the opposite of Mookie. But its not for lack of trying. He has just not figured out that there is no God given talent replacement for stupid in the field. The only replacement for stupid in the field is.....not stupid in the field and that takes time and working on the right aspects of your game.

 

Crossing right in front of X the other night distracting X into an error was classic and the very same mistake the Oakland RFer made when Laereano was trying to catch the ball in Right-Center field in the last A's series. It is just stupid s*** the contemporary player seems disinterested in learning and that the contemporary fan simply seems incapable of even noticing. Both player and fan are becoming oblivious to things that were standard fare expectations for MLB players not more than 15 years ago.

 

Meanwhile MLB continues to work the rocket ship baseball angle year by year encouraging the worst instincts of both player and fan.

[moonslav59]

That’s an exaggeration if I ever heard one. He was average to below average. He clearly wasn’t the worst

 

It was clear as day.

 

Worst in DRS at -152! (The next guy is at -73.

 

3rd Worst UZR/150 among any SSs with 7000+ innings at SS.

 

He was THE WORST.

 

(At best, he was 2nd or 3rd worst.)

 

[moonslav59]

I'm not arguing that the Yankees don't suck, I'm arguing that they can still have players that you can like and root for

 

I know what you are arguing, but you are wrong.

 

You can't like any Yankees and be a Sox fan. Sorry, it's one OR the other.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s an exaggeration if I ever heard one. He was average to below average. He clearly wasn’t the worst

 

Jeter's WAR always held up. I wasn't a big fan of him personally of course, but his WAR speaks for his value.

[moonslav59]

Jeter's WAR always held up. I wasn't a big fan of him personally of course, but his WAR speaks for his value.

 

I was only talking defense.

[Bellhorn04]

I was only talking defense.

 

I know.

[Kimmi]

That’s an exaggeration if I ever heard one. He was average to below average. He clearly wasn’t the worst

 

No, Moon is right. He was really, really bad.

[Kimmi]

I'm not arguing that the Yankees don't suck, I'm arguing that they can still have players that you can like and root for

 

I don't believe that I have ever rooted for a Yankee player.

[Bellhorn04]

Devers is making me want to call him Hit Dog or something goofy like that. Edited May 15, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

No, Moon is right. He was really, really bad.

 

He did have a couple years where he was just really bad. The rest he was "really, really bad."

 

It's not just all the numbers that show it, it was just about every year.

 

UZT/150

 

-0.1 '02

-5.5 '03

-0.8 '04

-13.4 '05

-7.8 '06

-18.0 '07

-0.2 '08

+7.8 '09

-5.1 '10

-9.2 '11

-9.1 '12

-27.1 '13 (only 110 innings)

-8.5 '14

 

One good year.

Two not real bad years.

The rest were horrible.

 

From 2005-2007 was probably the worst 3 year UZR/150 of any SS with 3000+ innings.

 

His DRS numbers are strikingly awful.

0

-13

-13

-27

-16

-24

-10

3 (2009)

-5

-12

-18

-5 (110 innings)

-12

 

Career -152 DRS!!! That is shocking!

 

Career UZR.150: -6.2

 

Inside Edge only captured 2012-2014, and here's what they had:

Jeter made only...

43% of all "even plays (40-60%)

71% of all likely plays (60-90%)

2.7% of unlikely plays (10-40%)

 

51 SSs with 3000+ innings from 2003-2014:

 

Jeter ranks ...

 

44th in UZR/150

 

51st in UZR/150 at -152 (2nd worst is Michael Young at -82. Jeter is almost twice as bad as the second worst guy!)

 

Is there any shred of evidence that shows he was not bad?

 

[Kimmi]

He did have a couple years where he was just really bad. The rest he was "really, really bad."

 

It's not just all the numbers that show it, it was just about every year.

 

Is there any shred of evidence that shows he was not bad?

 

 

With all that evidence, I really don't know how anyone can dispute how bad he was defensively. He made up for it with his offense, so I guess people think he wasn't that bad defensively, but he was that bad.

 

And the worst part about it, they kept handing him the Gold Glove.

[moonslav59]

With all that evidence, I really don't know how anyone can dispute how bad he was defensively. He made up for it with his offense, so I guess people think he wasn't that bad defensively, but he was that bad.

 

And the worst part about it, they kept handing him the Gold Glove.

 

Another reason to ignore the GG Award.

[cp176]

There really hasn't been much said about Devers defensive improvement of late. He is getting better. What I really like about him though is that he looks very good. He looks physically fit. if Devers and Chavis (if he stays clean) are representatives of what is coming out of our terrible minor league system, I say give me more!!!

[mvp 78]

There really hasn't been much said about Devers defensive improvement of late. He is getting better. What I really like about him though is that he looks very good. He looks physically fit. if Devers and Chavis (if he stays clean) are representatives of what is coming out of our terrible minor league system, I say give me more!!!

 

If you base your entire judgement of his defense on errors, then you probably thought he was a terrible 3b. I always saw his athleticism and realized at his age he can still grow into a great 3b and will win the GG someday even though that award doesn't matter to some posters.