Devers

[Bellhorn04]

If you base your entire judgement of his defense on errors, then you probably thought he was a terrible 3b. I always saw his athleticism and realized at his age he can still grow into a great 3b and will win the GG someday even though that award doesn't matter to some posters.

 

The Fielding Bible award is the one that matters now.

[Spudboy]

All BS!

Except for that last part...

 

That and the fact that he poked a young and still sexy Miriah Cary.

[Kimmi]

The Fielding Bible award is the one that matters now.

 

Bell has become a full-fledged stat geek.

 

Woot!

[Bellhorn04]

Bell has become a full-fledged stat geek.

 

Woot!

 

I honestly just try to find the best in both New School and Old School views.

[Kimmi]

I honestly just try to find the best in both New School and Old School views.

 

As do all stat geeks.

[cp176]

If you base your entire judgement of his defense on errors, then you probably thought he was a terrible 3b. I always saw his athleticism and realized at his age he can still grow into a great 3b and will win the GG someday even though that award doesn't matter to some posters.

 

I think that there have been a number of people who have seen Devers as our third baseman now and going forward. i am and have been for sure. he obviously he is a kid willing to work hard for what he gets. His fitness level proves that if you ask me. I do not now nor have I ever seen him as a first baseman moving forward.

[cp176]

I honestly just try to find the best in both New School and Old School views.

 

What defines "new school" and "old school"? I've been called "old school". It has not been used as a term of endearment. I happen to believe that using terms like this are alienating. I want what works on the field to be done whether it is something that has been done for years or something that has just been introduced recently. Believe it or not not knowing what all of the acronyms that are being used in current stat sheets does not directly relate to a person's direct knowledge of the game.

[Slasher9]

What defines "new school" and "old school"? I've been called "old school". It has not been used as a term of endearment. I happen to believe that using terms like this are alienating. I want what works on the field to be done whether it is something that has been done for years or something that has just been introduced recently. Believe it or not not knowing what all of the acronyms that are being used in current stat sheets does not directly relate to a person's direct knowledge of the game.

 

i think being called old school is kind of cool.

i still dont buy into the one guy that watches every single defensive play to make ruling on range/catch probability.

also WAA > WAR.

[notin]

i think being called old school is kind of cool.

i still dont buy into the one guy that watches every single defensive play to make ruling on range/catch probability.

also WAA > WAR.

 

 

It’s probably not so much one guy. But a group of people measuring it against the standard. I suppose there is a possibility of automating it with software as well, but I don’t think that has happened yet.

 

WAA does seem like a better idea. But I think stats thrive best when they’re more available, which was a big reason Win Shares and VORP are never mentioned any more. Fans struggle to look them up.

 

I actually think B-R’s WAR stat is better than Fangraphs, but B-R doesn’t have a website feature that makes looking up values anywhere near as easy as Fangraphs does. It’s near impossible on B-R to find WAR ranks that can be customized and manipulated. So I default to Fangraphs WAR out of ease. WAA has a similar problem.

 

And there’s nothing wrong with “old school,” which are the most accessible and relatable stats and techniques of all. But I think people lose sight of the fact that all of them were also considered “new metrics” at one point.

 

And someday down the road, fWAR and WAA will either go the way of WARP or be considered “old school” themselves...

Edited May 17, 2019 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

What defines "new school" and "old school"? I've been called "old school". It has not been used as a term of endearment. I happen to believe that using terms like this are alienating. I want what works on the field to be done whether it is something that has been done for years or something that has just been introduced recently. Believe it or not not knowing what all of the acronyms that are being used in current stat sheets does not directly relate to a person's direct knowledge of the game.

 

It gets a little political, cp, no question about that.

 

I was a little disappointed by dgalehouse's post yesterday where he went off on the 'sabermetric savants' here and their 'condescending ********'. It really encapsulated some of the hard feelings you get between the two sides.

[moonslav59]

The condescending ******** has flowed both ways, and not just on this issue. I've gone back and read some of my old posts and can certainly see why some people are put off by my statements or implications. I will say, I do not mean making people feel put-down or inferior intellectually. We have some very smart posters on this board, and no one side has more than the other.

 

In my personal life, I am VERY "old school" in many ways, and I don't consider myself just a stat geek. Many posters here are multidimensional. Things do get personal at times here, but such is life.

 

[cp176]

It gets a little political, cp, no question about that.

 

I was a little disappointed by dgalehouse's post yesterday where he went off on the 'sabermetric savants' here and their 'condescending ********'. It really encapsulated some of the hard feelings you get between the two sides.

 

i very much agree with you and sadly it leads to somehing akin to a political discussion. There seems to be no room for the middle guy who actually tries to see and understand the attributes of both sides of any discussion. I also see the condescension piece coming from both sides and it does absolutely no good other than on here of course it gives us something to do on a rainy day. i do not like the concept of you must be on one side or the other or you just don't count.

[cp176]

i think being called old school is kind of cool.

i still dont buy into the one guy that watches every single defensive play to make ruling on range/catch probability.

also WAA > WAR.

 

 

You hitting 50 = you crossing the great divide. (don't believe anyone who says it is all downhill from there)! liars be they all -

[cp176]

The condescending ******** has flowed both ways, and not just on this issue. I've gone back and read some of my old posts and can certainly see why some people are put off by my statements or implications. I will say, I do not mean making people feel put-down or inferior intellectually. We have some very smart posters on this board, and no one side has more than the other.

 

In my personal life, I am VERY "old school" in many ways, and I don't consider myself just a stat geek. Many posters here are multidimensional. Things do get personal at times here, but such is life.

 

you are multidimensional !

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

 

Devers is insanely hot again, two weeks ago he peaked at a .487 expected wOBA and right now he's at .496 in 50 plate appearance rolling averages.

 

Context: Betts topped this in April and May last year, Bogaerts has topped these hot streaks once, and Benintendi never has.

[jacksonianmarch]

Devers has decided to be a hitter, not a slugger. The power will come, but this is the same approach Bogaerts took early on and it helped make him a better hitter.

[Slasher9]

@redsoxstats

 

Devers is insanely hot again, two weeks ago he peaked at a .487 expected wOBA and right now he's at .496 in 50 plate appearance rolling averages.

 

Context: Betts topped this in April and May last year, Bogaerts has topped these hot streaks once, and Benintendi never has.

 

JBj probably has tho??

[mvp 78]

JBJ had a WOBA above 500 in May 2016 and above 540 in Aug-Sep of 2015. He didn't seem to have a stretch like that in 2017 or 2018 from what I've looked at.

[mvp 78]

I'm not entirely sure where @redsoxstats pulls their info from though.

[bosoxmal]

Time to put this guy in the 3 HOLE and work around him. RH, JH, no matter, It sure looks like we have another 3holer. Think Yaz and Teddy. Lefty hitting for average and with power, No 3 is where he belongs, no question about it!

[S5Dewey]

Mal, I'd say that I love you like a brother but there's too much of an age difference for that so I'll say that I love you like a father. :-) However, if you've been reading these forums you must know by now that having your best hitter in the 3-hole is a waste of talent.

 

Me? the way Devers is progressing I'd live and die with him in the 3-spot, but what do I know?

[dgalehouse]

Mal, I'd say that I love you like a brother but there's too much of an age difference for that so I'll say that I love you like a father. :-) However, if you've been reading these forums you must know by now that having your best hitter in the 3-hole is a waste of talent.

 

Me? the way Devers is progressing I'd live and die with him in the 3-spot, but what do I know?

This board is very enlightening. Personally, I have found out that everything I knew , or thought I knew , about baseball is now completely wrong . The game has been reinvented by some young geniuses who otherwise wouldn't know a jockstrap from a G string .

[moonslav59]

This board is very enlightening. Personally, I have found out that everything I knew , or thought I knew , about baseball is now completely wrong . The game has been reinvented by some young geniuses who otherwise wouldn't know a jockstrap from a G string .

 

Admitting it is the first step to recovery.

 

(Sarcasm alert)

 

[bosoxmal]

Mal, I'd say that I love you like a brother but there's too much of an age difference for that so I'll say that I love you like a father. :-) However, if you've been reading these forums you must know by now that having your best hitter in the 3-hole is a waste of talent.

 

Me? the way Devers is progressing I'd live and die with him in the 3-spot, but what do I know?

Why did they hit Williams, Yaz (and, I'm sure) OrtizGejrig, and on and on, in the 3 spot. It's the power slot and always has been.

[bosoxmal]

The first inning is the most important inning of the ball game. You get 1 or 2 on and here comes your best hitter. Like Teddy, or Yaz, And, yes, like Devers.

[bosoxmal]

AH_HA! I just glanced at today's lineup. Two minds with etc etc etc

[Nick]

Devers was 2-for-4 with a homer, raising his average to .330. He had a monster road trip, hitting 13-for-27 (.481) with four homers, eight RBIs and eight runs in six games.

 

22 and looking to make the All Star Game. Kids can surprise you.

 

We should worry about extending him.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

Hit Dawg Devers

[notin]

The first inning is the most important inning of the ball game. You get 1 or 2 on and here comes your best hitter. Like Teddy, or Yaz, And, yes, like Devers.

 

So if the first inning is the most important, the Sox need to start employing the “opener” strategy with their best reliever.

 

So mal says the first inning is the most important and galehouse thinks the 9th inning is. I say we spilt the difference and make the fifth inning the most important...

[OH FOY]

Runs in the 9th inning you usually lose. Runs in the 1st you have time. Including the most important thing if your using a Regular Starter, and he finds himself, you save a ton of arms. Most Starters take a inning to get themselves going.