The Pen

[Kimmi]

It's interesting that I seem to be the only one praising Dombrowski for his BP building strategy. Well done, Dave.

 

It might not be working as well as people would like it to, but it also has not been nearly as bad as many are making it out to be.

 

Even if Dombrowski had spent a lot of money on the pen, chances are good that we'd need one or two pen arms for depth and reinforcement by the trade deadline. It's no different this year.

[notin]

So all you need is 6 good relievers!

 

Getting that many good relievers is sort of the hard part...

 

Nah. It’s easy.

 

You just fill out the Reliever Requisition Form on the MLB GM website, and under “Type of Pitcher”, you click on the box marked “Good.”

 

And then repeat 5 times...

[Kimmi]

Barnes is our "closer," but Cora chooses to use him in earlier inning high leverage situations, if they arise.

 

If Workman continues doing well, Cora can afford to use either one in early, key situations and save the other for rapping up a game.

 

It would be nice to have a third guy to count on, so Hembree and Walden are not counted on for too much.

 

IMO, we have 4 guys I trust, and most productive pens have 6 or 7.

 

You know me, I hate to trade prospects from an already highly depleted farm, but I think our need for another solid pen arm is apparent and essential.

 

I'd be on the phone 24/7, right now.

 

I think in most pens, the #6 and 7 guys are a little iffy. I think some of the problem has been the slow start that the starters got off too, along with injuries to Price and Eovaldi, both of which required to use the pen in ways that he didn't want to.

 

I agree that we could use another arm, but I would not go overboard in getting one.

[vegasbob]

It always looked like the plan was to have Thornburg and Carson Smith anchor the bullpen once Kimbrel left.

 

The problem is, neither of those pitchers have been able to stay healthy. And what’s left is a cast of pitchers dgalehouse likes to call “ham and eggers.”

 

Pitchers like Velasquez, Brasier, Brewer, Johnson, Weber, Taylor, and Josh Smith are all borderline MLB talents showing the world why they were all readily available. Normally Walden would fit in this category as well, but he’s having a career year...

 

You are right on what the plan may have been. Had to laugh a little. Completely forgot Carson Smith even existed.

[moonslav59]

I think in most pens, the #6 and 7 guys are a little iffy. I think some of the problem has been the slow start that the starters got off too, along with injuries to Price and Eovaldi, both of which required to use the pen in ways that he didn't want to.

 

I agree that we could use another arm, but I would not go overboard in getting one.

 

I'm not advocating going overboard. I see what we paid for Adisson Reed and Eovaldi, and think that something like that is not too high a price to pay.

 

Most contenders don't have 2 scrubs in the 6-7 slots, plus we don't have the greatest 1-5's either.

 

[moonslav59]

You are right on what the plan may have been. Had to laugh a little. Completely forgot Carson Smith even existed.

 

The chances were pretty good one of Thornburg or Smith would step up to fill Kimbrel's role, but sadly, no.

[SCM33]

He’s not closing because Cora is using him when the game is actually on the line and against better hitters. Not his fault Ryan Brasier couldn’t hold the lead against the bottom of the worst lineup in baseball

 

********. Closers close. Simple as that. The entire bullpen blows.

 

Exactly why do you think Barnes is a bad pitcher? Most of the complaints you’ve made are flat out not true...

 

They are true. I ask a simple question. If he is so great, and we have such a need (9 blown saves through 5/30.....I REPEAT, 9 BLOWN SAVES) then why isnt he closing? The answer is simple, bc he cant.

 

Barnes is the fireman. He is the only fireman we have. Cora is using him to stem the tide. Who else does he have that can stem the tide? Nobody thats who.

 

i still think they are stuck trying some combination of Hembree and Workman closing because at least the start of the 9th is the start of a clean inning. It won't be pretty. But were many of Kimbrel's saves what you would call pretty. He rejected $17.9M for one year from us in a qualifying offer and is still sitting on the sidelines because NOBODY will give him years.

 

All this is nonsense and fluff. The bullpen sucks, and Barnes is part of it.

 

Because the role and title of 'closer' are overrated.

 

Oh is that right? The Redsox are so much smarter than everyone else arent they!!!!! Closer by committee works!!!!! Stupid argument. Real teams have real bullpens with defined roles.

 

Barnes is our "closer," but Cora chooses to use him in earlier inning high leverage situations, if they arise.

 

If Workman continues doing well, Cora can afford to use either one in early, key situations and save the other for rapping up a game.

 

It would be nice to have a third guy to count on, so Hembree and Walden are not counted on for too much.

 

IMO, we have 4 guys I trust, and most productive pens have 6 or 7.

 

You know me, I hate to trade prospects from an already highly depleted farm, but I think our need for another solid pen arm is apparent and essential.

 

I'd be on the phone 24/7, right now.

 

If they have to use him earlier, then he is not a closer. He is a reliever. They have blown 9 saves. If he was so great, they wouldn't have 9 blown saves.

[Slasher9]

Blown saves don’t only occur in the 9th inning scm33. Some of those 9 happened in the 7th or 8th innings....

[SCM33]

Blown saves don’t only occur in the 9th inning scm33. Some of those 9 happened in the 7th or 8th innings....

 

That matters? They have 9, and its May 30th.

[devildavid]

That matters? They have 9, and its May 30th.

 

Blown saves don't mean s***. All that matters is the final score. The Sox lost a game in which the opponents reliever blew a save.

[moonslav59]

Blown saves don’t only occur in the 9th inning scm33. Some of those 9 happened in the 7th or 8th innings....

 

It's like arguing with a fence post.

[dgalehouse]

The chances were pretty good one of Thornburg or Smith would step up to fill Kimbrel's role, but sadly, no.

 

The chances were pretty good? Really ? I cannot comprehend that .

[SCM33]

Blown saves don't mean s***. All that matters is the final score. The Sox lost a game in which the opponents reliever blew a save.

 

Dont mean s***? Final score?

 

They are in 1st place right now if 70% of those saves are converted.

[SCM33]

It's like arguing with a fence post.

 

You are an idiot. (Please dont report me to the admins again, you Rat)

[devildavid]

Dont mean s***? Final score?

 

They are in 1st place right now if 70% of those saves are converted.

 

Blown saves don't mean lost games. How did the Sox lose a game when the opposing pitcher blew a save?

[jacksonianmarch]

It's interesting that I seem to be the only one praising Dombrowski for his BP building strategy. Well done, Dave.

 

It might not be working as well as people would like it to, but it also has not been nearly as bad as many are making it out to be.

 

Even if Dombrowski had spent a lot of money on the pen, chances are good that we'd need one or two pen arms for depth and reinforcement by the trade deadline. It's no different this year.

 

Right now the sox are working off a pen with Barnes being Barnes, Brasier being okay and three guys entering territory they have never broached yet in Walden, Workman, and Hembree. If those three hold up, the DD is a genius. All he needs to do is get Cora to designate a closer and he is good. If those three fall off, then his pen will be in shambles

[dgalehouse]

As a rule , blown saves lose games . As with any rule , there will be occasional exceptions. But blown saves are not a good thing. You don't want to have too many of them .

[jacksonianmarch]

Blown saves are a measure of momentum change. A shift in momentum from a game in hand to a toss up or trailing doesn't mean it's over, but points towards a bad outcome

[harmony]

Dont mean s***? Final score?

 

They are in 1st place right now if 70% of those saves are converted.

Of the nine blown saves, the Red Sox won two of those games (Matt Barnes vs. Tampa Bay on April 20 and Heath Hembree vs. Toronto on May 22).

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TBA/TBA201904200.shtml

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR201905220.shtml

[devildavid]

Of the nine blown saves, the Red Sox won two of those games (Matt Barnes vs. Tampa Bay on April 20 and Heath Hembree vs. Toronto on May 22).

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TBA/TBA201904200.shtml

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR201905220.shtml

 

Thank you

[devildavid]

Blown saves are a measure of momentum change. A shift in momentum from a game in hand to a toss up or trailing doesn't mean it's over, but points towards a bad outcome

 

Momentum means nothing. Only the final score does.

[devildavid]

As a rule , blown saves lose games . As with any rule , there will be occasional exceptions. But blown saves are not a good thing. You don't want to have too many of them .

 

There is no such rule.

[notin]

That matters? They have 9, and its May 30th.

 

 

12 out of 30 MLB teams have 9 or more blown saves. It’s not good, but they aren’t the worst in the league. (The Yankees and their $70mill bullpen have 7.)

 

And 5 teams are tied with the fewest blown saves at 3, including the White Sox, Giants, and Blue Jays- three teams that have so few leads to protect...

[notin]

Dont mean s***? Final score?

 

They are in 1st place right now if 70% of those saves are converted.

 

 

Did you know it’s possible to have multiple blown saves in the same game? It’s not even uncommon...

[dgalehouse]

There is no such rule.

 

I am not inclined to debate with someone who makes an asinine statement like " blown saves don't mean s*** . " There is no creditability there .

[moonslav59]

I am not inclined to debate with someone who makes an asinine statement like " blown saves don't mean s*** . " There is no creditability there .

 

That's why he's on my ignore list of one.

[SCM33]

That's why he's on my ignore list of one.

 

Devildavid said it, not me.

 

Please stop referring to me in your posts, or I will have to PM the moderators like you did.

[Jasonbay44]

No matter how you look at it, blowing a save is never a good thing. It means late in a game you surrendered a lead, and Sox are 2-7 when they do that. An individuals blow save can be skewed as for some reason, if a relief pitcher is pitching in say 8th inning, loads bases and leaves, and another reliever comes in and gets a double play with bases loaded, but a run scores that ties game, the second relief pitcher who came in gets a blown save, which is absurd lol.

 

Here is an article talking about how absurd the Hold, win and Blown Save stats can be at times.

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/6/6/2208665/the-absurdirty-of-the-hold-statistic

 

Another thing I don't get with save is why do you get a save if you mop up and pitch the last three innings. The Rangers beat the Orioles 30-3 and someone got a save in the game lol.

[Bellhorn04]

Another thing I don't get with save is why do you get a save if you mop up and pitch the last three innings. The Rangers beat the Orioles 30-3 and someone got a save in the game lol.

 

Because you saved a couple of other guys from having to pitch.

[Bellhorn04]

Did you know it’s possible to have multiple blown saves in the same game? It’s not even uncommon...

 

In the infamous 1986 WS Game 6 poor Schiraldi got a blown save in the 8th inning and the loss in the 10th inning. If he had given up a home run to Ray Knight instead of a single, I think he would have been charged with 2 blown saves and a loss.

 

Bob Stanley got a blown save for his efforts too, of course...