Sox acquire Ian Kinsler

[mvp 78]

Even if assuming Pedroia is done AND assuming the Sox go with a 12 man pitching staff, what do they do when Vasquez and Devers are ready to come back? They need Pearce to back up 1st, Swihart looks like he is making himself too valuable to release, they can put Holt in AAA, they can release Nunez even though they have him for cheap next year, or they can put Devers in AAA and stunt his growth like they did Bogaerts when the just had to have Stephen Drew in 2014.

 

Phantom DL until the rosters expand.

[dannycater]

exactly. they won't lose anyone. It will be DL or something to get to Sept. 1. Or one less pitcher. I don't think you can have enough bench guys. Extra inning game is a good example. Pinch hitting is a lost art, but the Sox have opportunities to change things up during any game now.

[FredLynn]

Stupid move. Is he that much better than what Philips could give? There goes two more chips that could have been used for a reliever.

 

Its a solid move for a team that is clearly all in this year. Nunez is a disaster at 2B, and Holt is much more useful as a utility player than as a regular 2B man. Kinsler will shore up the defense up the middle. And as far as surrendering a couple of "non prospect RPs", those guys are a dime a dozen.

[Dojji]

Browsed a couple Angels forums, they seem comfortable with the trade as well. Sounds like the best kind of trade, where both teams feel like they got what they need.

 

It's also, if I may say it, a good deal for the players involved. Kinsler gets a crack at a ring. Buttrey and Jerez are much less blocked in Anaheim and stand a better chance of breaking into the majors there.

 

Wins all around.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Dojji

[moonslav59]

Dave isn’t done. With Devers down and still not performing, it is still possible Beltre is shaken free. Beltre said he wanted to go to Boston. Clearly the upper salary limit is not stopping Dave. Beltre is a FA after the season as well and the Rangers aren’t in it. It makes sense for them to get something for him

 

I'm still not sure that when all is said and done, we end up over the max line. We are only over by $300K to $400K, so we could deal salary to get back under pretty easily.

 

I think RP'er is clearly a higher priority than 3B, especially since Holt and Nunez are now fully available to fill in at 3B.

 

BTW, I don't see Devers as a net negative at 3B. He's also very good vs the Yanks, so I want him playing in the playoffs.

[moonslav59]

Another quality player. What I like about about Dombrowski is that he goes after quality. Not looking to catch lightning in the proverbial bottle. When Devers returns , we will need to decide if we want a four man bench or thirteen pitchers. Until rosters expand anyway.

 

I think having 2-3 of Eovaldi, Pom, Johnson and Velazquez in the pen allows for us to go to a 12 man staff until Sept 1.

 

The issue might be who has options and who can or do we keep on the 25 man roster?

 

Addition and returning players:

 

Kinsler

Devers

Vazquez

(Pedey?)

 

Who goes?

Lin (for sure)

Holt (1 option left)

Swihart (no options)

Nunez (no options)

Pearce (no options)

Devers (3 options)

 

There's not enough room until September 1st. Once the playoffs come, Swihart will likely be the odd man out, unless he keeps hitting.

 

I still say, we might be looking to trade Nunez or Holt to get back under the max tax limit.

 

[notin]

Browsed a couple Angels forums, they seem comfortable with the trade as well. Sounds like the best kind of trade, where both teams feel like they got what they need.

 

It's also, if I may say it, a good deal for the players involved. Kinsler gets a crack at a ring. Buttrey and Jerez are much less blocked in Anaheim and stand a better chance of breaking into the majors there.

 

Wins all around.

 

Usually you can tell a trade is equal if both sides think they got ripped off as well...

[Hitch]

Like this trade. Fills a hole and improves us a great deal on infield D.

 

One of the major issues the past two years is having a young team in the playoffs. A little bit of experience goes a long way in the post season.

[moonslav59]

He's right. We're talking about midtier prospects in a shattered system. Both of the guys we gave up are entirely replaceable, and the Angels, who have a much weaker pitching staff, might be interested in them as projects.

 

I honestly thought when I thought when we brought in Kinsler that we'd had to give up something good, like Mike Shawaryn or CJ Chatham, guys with a high likelihood of MLB utility, if not stardom. Both Buttrey and Jerez strike me as bullpen filler guys, which we really don't even need since we already have more bullpen filler than bullpen slots right now.

 

In other words, they were redundant scraps and we gave them to a team that needed them more than we did, for a guy we did need. Good trade DD.

 

I agree, and although Buttrey might have more upside than either of us think he has, the guy has been in the system for 7 years and was ranked only 19th in a down system. The highest he ever got was 17th.

[notin]

Buttrey has been in the system a few years and been bypassed by other arms who have actually been released. I don’t think Dombrowski valued him that much...

[moonslav59]

Phantom DL until the rosters expand.

 

Is keeping Nunez worth losing 10 draft slots plus having his $4M count on next year's budget?

 

It's a close call, to me.

 

Once Devers, Kinsler and Vaz are added to the 25 man roster for August and the playoffs (forget Sept for a moment), who goes?

 

Lin- yes

Holt? I'd rather keep him than Nunez

Nunez or Swihart? Both out of options, so a phantom DL would work, but one sits for the playoffs anyways.

Pearce (no options) or Devers (3 left)? I think not.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Buttrey has been in the system a few years and been bypassed by other arms who have actually been released. I don’t think Dombrowski valued him that much...

 

He has looked good this year, but 7 years in the system and a pending rule 5 winter makes the parting easier.

[Hitch]

If we could trade Pom and get back under I'd do it. I don't trust him as a starter or out of the pen in the play offs.

[mvp 78]

Is keeping Nunez worth losing 10 draft slots plus having his $4M count on next year's budget?

 

It's a close call, to me.

 

Once Devers, Kinsler and Vaz are added to the 25 man roster for August and the playoffs (forget Sept for a moment), who goes?

 

Lin- yes

Holt? I'd rather keep him than Nunez

Nunez or Swihart? Both out of options, so a phantom DL would work, but one sits for the playoffs anyways.

Pearce (no options) or Devers (3 left)? I think not.

 

 

 

Sox have said they don't care about losing the 10 slots because they'll be at the end of the 1st round anyway.

[mvp 78]

If we could trade Pom and get back under I'd do it. I don't trust him as a starter or out of the pen in the play offs.

 

Nobody would want that salary right now.

[Hitch]

Nobody would want that salary right now.

 

I'm doubtful, too. I'd still be trying to make it happen though.

[oldtimer]

Nobody would want that salary right now.

 

We could eat a part of it and still get under the Luxury Tax limit.

[FredLynn]

Even if assuming Pedroia is done AND assuming the Sox go with a 12 man pitching staff, what do they do when Vasquez and Devers are ready to come back? They need Pearce to back up 1st, Swihart looks like he is making himself too valuable to release, they can put Holt in AAA, they can release Nunez even though they have him for cheap next year, or they can put Devers in AAA and stunt his growth like they did Bogaerts when the just had to have Stephen Drew in 2014.

 

Not sure if Pedroia is still on the 25 man roster or how that would work, but he is toast, and as harsh as it would seem, I think they need to release him if he is still on the roster taking up a space.

[Dojji]

I'm inclined to agree. He's going into his age 35 season, and to be blunt about it, guys his size almost never increase their ability to stay on the field very much after about age 34.

[Hitch]

I can't see us releasing him. I hope he can get back to playing at a high level, but if not, if he retires it will be nice to drop that salary.

[notin]

Not sure if Pedroia is still on the 25 man roster or how that would work, but he is toast, and as harsh as it would seem, I think they need to release him if he is still on the roster taking up a space.

 

Isn’t he on the 60 day DL?

 

If so, he isn’t taking up roster space...

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Holt or Nunez in a Trade? Cant have all these utility guys.

 

They will never trade Holt--he is too valuable as a utility player and he is having a good year. With Kinsler added to the mix, Holt will return to that utility role--he will probably play some OF, keeping Martinez at DH, while seeing some playing time at 2b and SS.

 

I would expect a Devers/Nunez platoon at 3b, with Devers siting against lefties. They aren't trading Nunez--he is one of the leaders on the team and an important voice in the clubhouse. They might move Nunez in the offseason, but they aren't going to trade him now.

[FredLynn]

Isn’t he on the 60 day DL?

 

If so, he isn’t taking up roster space...

 

I do not know if he is on the 60d DL. One link lists him as being on the 10d DL.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Even if assuming Pedroia is done AND assuming the Sox go with a 12 man pitching staff, what do they do when Vasquez and Devers are ready to come back? They need Pearce to back up 1st, Swihart looks like he is making himself too valuable to release, they can put Holt in AAA, they can release Nunez even though they have him for cheap next year, or they can put Devers in AAA and stunt his growth like they did Bogaerts when the just had to have Stephen Drew in 2014.

 

Vazquez doesn't return until September when the rosters expand. Thus, there is no roster crunch until the playoffs.

 

Assuming everyone is healthy, someone doesn't make the playoff roster. My prediction: Vazquez or Leon will be kept off. If the Red Sox have enough confidence in Swihart as a catcher, you don't need both players (Vazquez and Leon) on the playoff roster, neither guy can hit.

[Bellhorn04]

Vazquez doesn't return until September when the rosters expand. Thus, there is no roster crunch until the playoffs.

 

But when it comes to the playoffs, and assuming everyone is healthy, someone doesn't make the playoff roster. Who knows, maybe Vazquez or Leon are kept off. If the Red Sox have enough confidence in Swihart as a catcher, you don't need both players (Vazquez and Leon) on the playoff roster, neither player can hit.

 

Leon is staying put, as good as the pitching has been with him behind the plate.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Pedroia isn't on the 60 day DL. Though, they may put him on it sooner rather than later.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Leon is staying put, as good as the pitching has been with him behind the plate.

 

The problem may solve itself--someone may get hurt. But if not, one of the three probably won't make the playoff roster: Leon, Vazquez, Swihart.

 

Vazquez can do anything Leon can do. There is really no need to keep both players on the playoff roster if the Red Sox are sold on Swihart's defense.

 

the Red Sox pitching would be fine with or without Leon behind the plate. It is my understanding that Vazquez is the better defensive catcher.

[Spudboy]

Leon is staying put, as good as the pitching has been with him behind the plate.

 

Yup.

 

He's the best catcher on the team, bat notwithstanding.

[notin]

Yup.

 

He's the best catcher on the team, bat notwithstanding.

 

...which makes for an interesting dilemma this offseason, since one of the catchers is likely to be moved...

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I think having 2-3 of Eovaldi, Pom, Johnson and Velazquez in the pen allows for us to go to a 12 man staff until Sept 1.

 

The issue might be who has options and who can or do we keep on the 25 man roster?

 

Addition and returning players:

 

Kinsler

Devers

Vazquez

(Pedey?)

 

Who goes?

Lin (for sure)

Holt (1 option left)

Swihart (no options)

Nunez (no options)

Pearce (no options)

Devers (3 options)

 

There's not enough room until September 1st. Once the playoffs come, Swihart will likely be the odd man out, unless he keeps hitting.

 

I still say, we might be looking to trade Nunez or Holt to get back under the max tax limit.

 

 

Vazquez doesn't return until September. So there is no roster crunch until the playoffs (I'm assuming Pedroia does not return at all). I was open to the idea of moving Nunez a few weeks back, but I have heard that he is a huge locker room presence, a leader on the team. I don't see the Red Sox screwing around with clubhouse chemistry at this point of the season. Moreover, they need someone to platoon with Devers at 3b, a guy who can't hit lefties.

 

Nunez isn't the ideal platoon partner, but he gets the job due to the intangibles.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Fan_since_Boggs