Rafael Devers struggles/triumphs and the future

[Larry Cook]

Baseball is a game of adjustments and it is up devers to adjust to what pitchers are throwing him that has him looking terrible at the plate.

[Sox75]

I hear you. It's me. I have no patience with people who spend time trying to antagonize other people. For others.. it's ok.

 

LOL :0 True. I do like to bury me a good troll.

 

It probably comes down to me not knowing the guy's history, but given his posting numbers here, he must be a bit more than a Pikish concern troll?

[jacksonianmarch]

I didn’t start the thread to troll. I trolled later when the newbies were appalled that I’d mention something about Devers, the sacred son of the Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

I didn’t start the thread to troll. I trolled later when the newbies were appalled that I’d mention something about Devers, the sacred son of the Sox.

 

If you're going to start a thread for 'debate', make it a point that can actually be debated. Devers is struggling badly right now, that is not debatable. See what I mean?

[jacksonianmarch]

I figured I’d point it out and naturally we would all end up debating if he should go down in the order, back to minors, etc. Admittedly, it’s not my best work.

[Slasher9]

I didn’t start the thread to troll. I trolled later when the newbies were appalled that I’d mention something about Devers, the sacred son of the Sox.

 

Uh no. You troll all the f***ing time. You know it and I know it. Plus your op was complete f***ing nonsense and was typed for 1 purpose. This is now the 66th post in this thread so your troll game is still going strong here with all the “real” TalkSox posters. No need to worry about us “newbies”...all the “real” talksox posters will continue to suck your trolling dick.

[jacksonianmarch]

Uh no. You troll all the f***ing time. You know it and I know it. Plus your op was complete f***ing nonsense and was typed for 1 purpose. This is now the 66th post in this thread so your troll game is still going strong here with all the “real” TalkSox posters. No need to worry about us “newbies”...all the “real” talksox posters will continue to suck your trolling dick.

 

The term I think of when I see your username is "shallow and pedantic"

[S5Dewey]

Ya see, we who are reading are at a disadvantage. We we read something someone wrote we have to assume they meant it.

 

In the future I'll be sure to give all of Jax's posts all the value I think they deserve.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

As a Sox fan and a new regular poster to the board I sure don't want to be too critical of the Sox fans here. But with that said it sure seems as if many here are easily triggered. I go to other team's boards all the time and never go this sort of response. It's just a message board after all and I for one enjoy other fans' perspectives. This guy uses phrases like "the kid was nails last year" and is being attacked. Man you should see some of the stuff I write on the Eagles or Boys boards as a Washington fan. Edited June 3, 2018 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[jacksonianmarch]

As a Sox fan and new member here I sure don't want to get on the regulars here. But with that said it sure seems as if many here are easily triggered. I go to other team's boards all the time and never go this sort of response. It's just a message board after all. This guy uses phrases like "the kid was nails last year" and is being attacked. Man you should see some of the stuff I write about the Eagles or Boys as a Washington fan.

 

Preach

[Maxbialystock]

Devers is a 21 year old project whose OPS has dropped from .821 in 2017 to .681 in 2018 and has made a lot of errors at 3B. He's the same guy who struck out on 96 mph fastballs near the center of the strike zone last night but who hit a dinger off a 103 mph fast ball by a Yankee closer last season. I back him because Cora does and because I see his potential, including as a third baseman.

 

Last year he thrived near the bottom of the order. Maybe he needs to return there. Whatever.

 

As for jacksonianmarch, of course he is a Yankee fan on a Sox site, but I don't consider him to be a troll. He loves what Cash has done in reducing the payroll while producing a great lineup, finally, and thinks this year's version is maybe on a par with the Yankees of 1949-53--five WS in a row. But I think he also acknowledges that the John Henry era has brought parity between two very different cities, NY and Boston, but now somewhat similar franchises. I consider him to be more balanced than many so-called Sox fans on talksox, but that doesn't mean that now and then he won't irritate me too.

 

I am confident YOTN has no intention of banning jacksonianmarch who is a good addition to our discussions, even on his bad days.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Preach

 

Your still a Yankee fan so defending you is difficult. Say something stupid so I can rip you a new one and return the world to its normal state.

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s bound to happen eventually. I’ve eaten foot more times than I care to admit

[Sox75]

Again, I haven't been around here very long, but the guy doesn't seem like a flat out troll. He's got some 38,000 posts, so I don't think the guy could last this long simply "trolling."

 

As far as I can tell, this is not simply a pom pom waving crowd around here??? Guys enjoy a good debate, and flat out like to argue about how RS players are performing? Most around here like some players, & think they have value, despite often poor numbers. Others hate guys, think they are shyte, & want them gone...... often despite big sample numbers that suggest said hated player will return to historic norms.

 

Anyway... We all simply enjoy arguing red sox issues. Devers presents an issue! A big issue on D, and increasingly a BIG issue at the plate. It is worthy of a good & spirited debate on where the kid is headed. Can the Sox absorb a hole at 2nd and 3rd with Pedey likely out for a good long time, if he ever returns???

 

I'm not sure? Then again, barring a trade, I'm not sure we have options. Still, the fact remains, we have a burgeoning problem & huge holes at 2nd & 3rd. Both Holt and Nunez are sub par at 2nd. Devers is well below sub par at 3rd. I think he eventually becomes a decent 3rd baseman, but it will take A BOGGS TYPE WORK ETHIC to get there.

 

The question is, Do the Sox have the luxury of absorbing 2 holes on D and now with the bat at 2nd & 3rd? We also have 2 other holes in the lineup at C & C.F..

 

NOW ... The SR is becoming a big problem with Pom & Porcello. Sale has inexicably gone COLD, & E-Rod is hot & cold.

 

With our core of JDM, Mookie, Beni, Bogie, & Mooreland, we have a legit shot at the WS, but the growing holes in this lineup simply can't get us past the 1st round.

 

So..... a good debate on Devers is warranted!!!!

 

Perhaps the guy is simply here to raise these obvious concerns, & troll stick it up our arsses?.? Idk? Either way, we're big boys & can handle a reasoned debate on our guys. Now, if he were just around talking s*** about Papi & Manny on PED's, I'd join the lynch mob. That's not what I see going on here.

 

 

Having said that, I get that some guys can really get under your skin.... Especially if you think they are just "trolling." Add to it, he's an interloper from the enemy camp???? I get it.

[moonslav59]

I caught a lot of grief for suggesting we sign Moustakas and move Devers to part time 1B, DH and 3B.

 

Asking a 21 year old to learn on the fly during a highly charged championship run was tempting fate. I was more worried about Devers' defense, but now his offense has become an issue.

 

The Moreland signing puzzled me, but it has worked out very well, especially with the release of HRam.

 

We may end up having to live or die with Devers. I could think of worse problems, but it could become a major issue.

 

Holt and Devers offer some help, especially if Pedey can come back strong, but neither looks like a good choice to become a FT 3Bman.

 

I will say, if our weakest position is 3B/2B and we have 4 guys with some positives on their side all looking for playing time, we're not all that bad off.

[OH FOY]

Aaron Judge hit .207 for the stretch Months of July and August last year, I give the Yanks Credit, they stuck with him. Didn't panic. Its only beginning of June.

[moonslav59]

Aaron Judge hit .207 for the stretch Months of July and August last year, I give the Yanks Credit, they stuck with him. Didn't panic. Its only beginning of June.

 

Yes indeed. I'm no where near the point of suggesting Devers be benched or sent to AAA.

 

It may be getting close to the point of demoting him in the line-up a little bit, but who is hitting well enough to leap frog him?

 

Maybe, if Pedey returns near form, he can knock Devers down one slot (at least vs lefties).

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Aaron Judge also hit 31 HR prior to his swoon

[Sox75]

Yes indeed. I'm no where near the point of suggesting Devers be benched or sent to AAA.

 

It may be getting close to the point of demoting him in the line-up a little bit, but who is hitting well enough to leap frog him?

 

Maybe, if Pedey returns near form, he can knock Devers down one slot (at least vs lefties).

 

 

There in lies the problem. NOBODY in Pawtucket is anywhere near bringing up at 3rd. Nobody!

 

There isn't much out there to even think about trading for, & you certainly don't want to give up on the kid with this potential. I too wanted Mustakis, but I was big on getting Mooreland as a Hanley contingency. That worked out well, assuming Mooreland continues to hit?

 

idk... not much else we can do right now, but I'm sure DD has his eyes open looking around at what might come available???

[notin]

There in lies the problem. NOBODY in Pawtucket is anywhere near bringing up at 3rd. Nobody!

 

 

 

Mike Olt has an .875 OPS and MLB experience.

 

 

Not to mention the Sox have Nunez and Holt on the MLB roster, and only one of them is needed to cover 2B...

[cp176]

Mike Olt has an .875 OPS and MLB experience.

 

 

Not to mention the Sox have Nunez and Holt on the MLB roster, and only one of them is needed to cover 2B...

 

And I'm thinking that that is what it is going to be as we move forward.

[sk7326]

These are all itty bitty sample sizes ultimately. The question is does the can Devers figure his stuff out at the big league level. Given his history - where he HAS figured stuff out each place he has been at - it makes more sense to trust him than not.

[FredLynn]

Mike Olt has an .875 OPS and MLB experience.

 

 

Not to mention the Sox have Nunez and Holt on the MLB roster, and only one of them is needed to cover 2B...

 

Mike Olt has a career ML OPS of .580 and managed a -0.7 dWAR in 130 games or so in the majors.

He is definitely not the answer at 3B.

Edited June 4, 2018 by FredLynn

[sk7326]

His batted ball numbers are actually better than last year. The strikeouts are a little higher - but there are enough indicators that this will come around.

[moonslav59]

Mike Olt has an .875 OPS and MLB experience.

 

 

Not to mention the Sox have Nunez and Holt on the MLB roster, and only one of them is needed to cover 2B...

 

Yes, Holt and Nunez are better than most teams have as third base depth. just one is probably better!.

[Dojji]

A young player struggling with consistency? Naw, say it isn't so.

 

There is zero reason not to let Devers stay on the job and work out his issues right now. Team is doing well, and no one denies Devers' talent. This is the perfect time to absolutely not panic.

[OH FOY]

At 21 years old Olt, was playing Low A ball in Spokane for the Rangers affiliate. I think Devers is in the Major Leagues at 21. Olt is 29 now and still cant break the Majors. Don't take the at bats from the kid. Injury, emergency, Double Header, sure fast call up OK.

Weird about Olt, at 23 had his best season in the Minors Double AA, 28HRS, 82 Rbi's , .288 avg. Never came close to it again.

Edited June 4, 2018 by OH FOY!

[greenwell]

I figured I’d point it out and naturally we would all end up debating if he should go down in the order, back to minors, etc. Admittedly, it’s not my best work.

 

It's a reasonable topic for discussion whoever it was started by. The surprising part to me is you used to seem reasonably knowledgeable about baseball, until the posts here acting like a couple months of a slump for a 21 year old with 100 games of ML service is so hard to explain. This is the norm, a player starts out hot then the league adjusts to him and we'll wait and see if he adjust back. This is the reason I hadn't worried about it too much yet.

[a700hitter]

Ya see, we who are reading are at a disadvantage. We we read something someone wrote we have to assume they meant it.

 

In the future I'll be sure to give all of Jax's posts all the value I think they deserve.

Jacko was as quiet as a Church mouse when the Yankees sucked for a few years. That just goes to prove my theory that Yankee fans are good losers, but obnoxious winners. The Yankees are on the upswing now, so we should expect Jacko and other Yankee fans to become more and more obnoxious. Red Sox fans are good winners, but terrible losers. When we win, we treat the losers with magnanimity, and we foolishly expect to be treated the same way when we lose. I have warned about this many times. Yankee fans need to stepped on and trashed while they are losing (even when their team is irrelevant). We have been far too nice to them.

[cp176]

Jacko was as quiet as a Church mouse when the Yankees sucked for a few years. That just goes to prove my theory that Yankee fans are good losers, but obnoxious winners. The Yankees are on the upswing now, so we should expect Jacko and other Yankee fans to become more and more obnoxious. Red Sox fans are good winners, but terrible losers. When we win, we treat the losers with magnanimity, and we foolishly expect to be treated the same way when we lose. I have warned about this many times. Yankee fans need to stepped on and trashed while they are losing (even when their team is irrelevant). We have been far too nice to them.

 

I'm hearing you say that being humble might not be a trait of the typical Yankee fan. I agree with you by the way.