Rafael Devers struggles/triumphs and the future

[SoxHop]

Devers is a 30-40HR bat in development. He is 21, so he has little time in the minors. We'll have to ride this out for the rest of the season.

 

yup

[harmony]

Let's discuss regression.

 

To date Rafael Devers has posted a wRC+ of 79 and 0.2 fWAR in 232 plate appearances.

 

To date Yankee infielder Gleyber Torres, who is 50 days younger than Devers, has posted a wRC+ of 162 and 1.4 fWAR in 130 plate appearances.

 

ZiPS, Steamer and FanGraphs Depth Charts project Devers with rest-of-season wRC+/WAR of 101/1.3, 101/1.2 and 101/1.4, respectively.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=17350&position=3B

 

ZiPS, Steamer and FanGraphs Depth Charts project Torres with rest-of-season wRC+/WAR of 111/1.1, 99/1.1 and 105/1.5 , respectively.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=16997&position=2B

 

Despite vastly contrasting starts, Devers and Torres are projected with similar production the remainder of the season. The Red Sox and Yankees should be patient with their promising 21-year-olds.

Edited June 2, 2018 by harmony

[Sox75]

Yes. Devers is raw. He is a raw young talent with serious pop. I hope we can afford to stick with him despite his growing pains.

 

For me, Devers is THE #1 potential hole in this lineup that 'could' really cost the Sox in a post season run. His D is also a potential pothole.

 

Ok . . . Also JBJ, Vaz, & 2nd base (if Pedey does not get fully healthy & return to form?)

 

These are simple facts. Another fact? The Sox have few options ... we are pretty much locked in to sticking with the kid. I hope he starts to figure things out.

 

Last 30 games..

 

112 13 22 5 8 8 31 0 .196 .250 .375

 

Pretty brutal !

 

5 hr's but only 8 rbi's & 31 SO's.

 

Ops of .625

Edited June 2, 2018 by Sox75

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

If they're pitching around JD, why does he lead the league in dingers?

 

Because he didn't have Devers behind him all season. Now he does and you saw what happened the other night. Man on 1st 2 out and first base open. Walk JD and get out of the inning by having Devers make the 3rd out.

 

That does not mean I am giving up on an immense talent that is all of 21, just stating the obvious. His slow start combined with his terrible defense is a real problem right now. I agree that bat may wake up but the defense I have my doubts about.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[jacksonianmarch]

Devers needs to have the luxury of the Gleyber treatment. We have this kid batting 9th and aren't counting on him to glue our lineup together. Maybe Devers is having an issue with the pressure, who knows. The problem is, you team has developed holes the size of icebergs without any solid depth aside from Holt. Nunez has been a bust. The catching tandem has been crappy. Bradley hasn't been good. You don't have the luxury to park Devers in the 9 hole and let him figure it out

[OH FOY]

Devers is a good hitter, just needs to have his old approach in the Minors. Going to LEFT. His Power is tremendous going that way. Ball get deeper in the hitting zone. He is battling whether to swing early, or take Pitches. Rookie. Needs to see it and hit it.

 

Screw this WRC + EMC2 = 2.3 Pie to the Right Angle of the Square Root.

Edited June 2, 2018 by OH FOY!

[S5Dewey]

Devers is a good hitter, just needs to have his old approach in the Minors. Going to LEFT. His Power is tremendous going that way. Ball get deeper in the hitting zone. He is battling whether to swing early, or take Pitches. Rookie. Needs to see it and hit it.

 

Screw this WRC + EMC2 = 2.3 Pie to the Right Angle of the Square Root.

 

LOL I couldn't have said that any better myself!!

[harmony]

Devers is a good hitter, just needs to have his old approach in the Minors. Going to LEFT. His Power is tremendous going that way. Ball get deeper in the hitting zone. He is battling whether to swing early, or take Pitches. Rookie. Needs to see it and hit it.

 

Screw this WRC + EMC2 = 2.3 Pie to the Right Angle of the Square Root.

It would not be fair to simply report that Rafael Devers is hitting .230 and Gleyber Torres .325. Each is due for regression, but in opposite directions.

[bkzwhitestrican]

Next Jacko thread will likely be "What's wrong with Sale - should Sox trade him while he still has value?"

[Kimmi]

Devers will be fine. The Sox offense will be fine. Sale will be fine. The Red Sox will be fine.

 

Even if we get swept in Houston.

[jacksonianmarch]

Next Jacko thread will likely be "What's wrong with Sale - should Sox trade him while he still has value?"

 

I already addressed that.

[Slasher9]

With Betts potentially out a couple weeks and your depth tested, the key hitter in your lineup is Devers. The kid was nails last year, but this year he isn’t hitting for power, average or OBP. His defense hasn’t been good, but that’s to be expected. If you’re to hang with NY, Devers has to step up over the next two weeks

 

What a f***ing troll thread.

[Slasher9]

Knowing you're an old BDC poster you must remember Jete02. He was an anomaly. A Yankees fan with class. His comments were about baseball and never intended to inflate the Yankees or degrade the Sox. Just good baseball talk.

this Yankees f*** troll is no jete. That dude was an anomaly. Even I got along with him....

[jacksonianmarch]

So sensitive. Pointing out reality is trolling? I find this fascinating.

[jad]

What a f***ing troll thread.

 

What a terribly hurtful thing to say to someone who has already expressed sensitivity to what he considers our psychological "insecurities" (i.e., the fact that we do not suitably address his particular needs).

[Slasher9]

So sensitive. Pointing out reality is trolling? I find this fascinating.

 

Actually what is fascinating is that literally nothing in your op is accurate. Fascinating.

[jacksonianmarch]

Actually what is fascinating is that literally nothing in your op is accurate. Fascinating.

 

Feel free to pick it apart. It's called debating. Try it sometime

[jad]

So sensitive. Pointing out reality is trolling? I find this fascinating.

 

You find a lot of things fascinating (e.g., the opinions and banter of fans of a different team) that most normal people do not. In fact, those same people might consider such fascination signs of deep emotional issues that you may want to take up with a professional.

[jacksonianmarch]

You find a lot of things fascinating (e.g., the opinions and banter of fans of a different team) that most normal people do not. In fact, those same people might consider such fascination signs of deep emotional issues that you may want to take up with a professional.

 

Ah yes, my favorite. The analyzing of the poster behind a keyboard. Keep em coming.

[jad]

Ah yes, my favorite. The analyzing of the poster behind a keyboard. Keep em coming.

 

Dude. It was you who brought up dumb-ass pop psychology a few posts ago in this very thread. But trust me, your insistence on being an annoying troll and an ******* is not something I can help you with.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dude. It was you who brought up dumb-ass pop psychology a few posts ago in this very thread. But trust me, your insistence on being an annoying troll and an ******* is not something I can help you with.

 

Loving it. You have more, don't you?

[jacksonianmarch]

Now I digress. Was I just trolling, absolutely. But that is what you and slasher and a few others were doing as well. I posted a thread about Devers struggles. No new threads on it, no real talking about it except the mention of it in random gamethreads. He has been terrible this season on the whole, which most people won't actually deny. What we are missing here is the ability of posters to actually debate. I anticipate this is due to the millennial influx on the site, the part of the population that would rather destroy a topic they don't agree with or don't want to face rather than debate the issue on its merits. There are some wonderful things about talksox, and what I always was a big fan of were the posters who brought data to back up their point rather than labelling and crying. Maybe we should go back to that simpler time, eh?

[Sox75]

Sure, is it a bit bizzare to have a Yankee fan join in on RS board? Yep. It's weird.

 

On the other hand, I think we are a bit more mature than the dipshits on the Yankee talk boards, which explains Jacksonian's desire to be here?

 

Given that likely fact, why not simply welcome the guy, and engage his debate?

 

There is no doubt that Devers is struggling mightily, but we assume he Wil come around. I'm not sure he does this year, but the kid clearly has big power & will eventually come around on D.

 

What is the harm in debating the guy? I don't particularly care what he thinks either way, but reading facts & debating has never scared me. Nor does it aggravate me. It doesn't frustrate or anger me.

 

Again, I find it a little weird, but different strokes for different folks. At least he's not a Piker, trolling everyone & accusing every other poster of being a Yankee troll. The guy admits to being a Yankee fan. Too bad for him.

[S5Dewey]

Sorry, but I don't fit the millenial profile being retired for several years now. Thanks for admitting that you were trolling. I was undecided whether you were trolling or just so socially inept that you thought that your posts were appropriate from a Yankees fan. You answered that.

 

I've been involved with sports at the high school level all my life and there's something I've learned that is as true at that level as it is at the professional level and it's this. We can criticize our own players (in our own time) but when a fan of a rival team does it it's not well received.

 

But don't you have better things to do in your life than to spend an entire Saturday trolling a Red Sox message board? If you don't it says a lot about your life.... but I'll let you decide what it says.

[S5Dewey]

Sure, is it a bit bizzare to have a Yankee fan join in on RS board? Yep. It's weird.

 

On the other hand, I think we are a bit more mature than the dipshits on the Yankee talk boards, which explains Jacksonian's desire to be here?

 

Given that likely fact, why not simply welcome the guy, and engage his debate?

 

There is no doubt that Devers is struggling mightily, but we assume he Wil come around. I'm not sure he does this year, but the kid clearly has big power & will eventually come around on D.

 

What is the harm in debating the guy? I don't particularly care what he thinks either way, but reading facts & debating has never scared me. Nor does it aggravate me. It doesn't frustrate or anger me.

 

Again, I find it a little weird, but different strokes for different folks. At least he's not a Piker, trolling everyone & accusing every other poster of being a Yankee troll. The guy admits to being a Yankee fan. Too bad for him.

 

There's not much to debate about. Devers is struggling. What were we expected to say? That he's not struggling? Or were we supposed to agree with him - which is not a debate at all.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sorry, but I don't fit the millenial profile being retired for several years now. Thanks for admitting that you were trolling. I was undecided whether you were trolling or just so socially inept that you thought that your posts were appropriate from a Yankees fan. You answered that.

 

I've been involved with sports at the high school level all my life and there's something I've learned that is as true at that level as it is at the professional level and it's this. We can criticize our own players (in our own time) but when a fan of a rival team does it it's not well received.

 

But don't you have better things to do in your life than to spend an entire Saturday trolling a Red Sox message board? If you don't it says a lot about your life.... but I'll let you decide what it says.

 

My life is actually pretty awesome, but today kinda sucked. Instead of being in my pool, I was tending to 3 kids with the GI bug. Sometimes, escapes are virtual rather than physical!

[bosoxmal]

I'm trolling, bit not gloating. My macro degneeration has progessed to a point where it;s easier to just get the statsor "troll" the TV games.

 

Never thought I'd say this, but Cora has done about all he can ---at least for the moment. Gor CS he's 21! He probably needs at least a year at Pawtucket--maybe more--He's hurting the team both at bat and in the field.

 

I'd wager that his confidence is not getting any better either

1

[Sox75]

Sure, is it a bit bizzare to have a Yankee fan join in on RS board? Yep. It's weird.

 

On the other hand, I think we are a bit more mature than the dipshits on the Yankee talk boards, which explains Jacksonian's desire to be here?

 

Given that likely fact, why not simply welcome the guy, and engage his debate?

 

There is no doubt that Devers is struggling mightily, but we assume he Wil come around. I'm not sure he does this year, but the kid clearly has big power & will eventually come around on D.

 

What is the harm in debating the guy? I don't particularly care what he thinks either way, but reading facts & debating has never scared me. Nor does it aggravate me. It doesn't frustrate or anger me.

 

Again, I find it a little weird, but different strokes for different folks. At least he's not a Piker, trolling everyone & accusing every other poster of being a Yankee troll. The guy admits to being a Yankee fan. Too bad for him.

 

I hear that Dewey, and definitely respect your opinion.... but, if Jacksonian had not started this thread, it would have been started by one of us. Devers has been tanking for at least the last 30+ games at the plate, and his D is ...... wanting at best.

 

I get that he was somewhat "trolling," but if the guy gets off on talking about young RS up & comers still struggling because they were clearly pushed forward too early because of the Pablo debacle, then LOL :0 at him. If that gets his little Yankee raisins off, who cares.

 

I think the main point is Devers, and what should be done? THAT is a legit point, even if a Yankee Troll has other things in mind.

 

Our pitching has been shyte lately, we have major issues at 2nd with Pedey ailing, JBJ continues to struggle, we had to dump our 1st baseman for a journeyman, 3rd base is problem with Devers, the C Position is a major problem right now, we have major holes with our BP, but the young Sox still keep on coming!

 

If the Sox can get a few of these issues straightened out, the Yankees are in trouble. No doubt, they and the Astros are stacked, but the Red Sox can compete with anyone in the league right now. We get a few guys to straighten up & play to their potential, & the pitching turns around, everyone including Jacksonian knows that the Red Sox will be DANGEROUS in the coming post season!

 

Let him troll on. No worries.

[oldtimer]

I hear that Dewey, and definitely respect your opinion.... but, if Jacksonian had not started this thread, it would have been started by one of us. Devers has been tanking for at least the last 30+ games at the plate, and his D is ...... wanting at best.

 

I get that he was somewhat "trolling," but if the guy gets off on talking about young RS up & comers still struggling because they were clearly pushed forward too early because of the Pablo debacle, then LOL :0 at him. If that gets his little Yankee raisins off, who cares.

 

I think the main point is Devers, and what should be done? THAT is a legit point, even if a Yankee Troll has other things in mind.

 

Our pitching has been shyte lately, we have major issues at 2nd with Pedey ailing, JBJ continues to struggle, we had to dump our 1st baseman for a journeyman, 3rd base is problem with Devers, the C Position is a major problem right now, we have major holes with our BP, but the young Sox still keep on coming!

 

If the Sox can get a few of these issues straightened out, the Yankees are in trouble. No doubt, they and the Astros are stacked, but the Red Sox can compete with anyone in the league right now. We get a few guys to straighten up & play to their potential, & the pitching turns around, everyone including Jacksonian knows that the Red Sox will be DANGEROUS in the coming post season!

 

Let him troll on. No worries.

 

A problem we have is that our only replacements for Devers at this point would be Nunez and Holt and one of them has to play 2nd with Pedey out for god knows how long. We don't have a good solution in the minors so it appears we have to live with Devers and hope that he can improve with the bat (more than hope, we need to coach him). His sense of the game and his throwing to first have also been what we should expect for a 21 year old that transitioned to the majors based more on need than readiness. Chavez will be out until too late to make a comeback this year so we have to live with the issues.

 

As has been said, he is not the only weak area and we have been expecting a few guys to carry the team offensively. There have been a few signs of JBJ doing better and Leon so we can hope for a better June for these guys and Holt will do okay but not great. Meanwhile we really need Mookie back and we have to hope that the injury bug doesn't hit anymore of the key players.

[S5Dewey]

I hear that Dewey, and definitely respect your opinion.... but, if Jacksonian had not started this thread, it would have been started by one of us. Devers has been tanking for at least the last 30+ games at the plate, and his D is ...... wanting at best.

 

I get that he was somewhat "trolling," but if the guy gets off on talking about young RS up & comers still struggling because they were clearly pushed forward too early because of the Pablo debacle, then LOL :0 at him. If that gets his little Yankee raisins off, who cares.

 

I think the main point is Devers, and what should be done? THAT is a legit point, even if a Yankee Troll has other things in mind.

 

Our pitching has been shyte lately, we have major issues at 2nd with Pedey ailing, JBJ continues to struggle, we had to dump our 1st baseman for a journeyman, 3rd base is problem with Devers, the C Position is a major problem right now, we have major holes with our BP, but the young Sox still keep on coming!

 

If the Sox can get a few of these issues straightened out, the Yankees are in trouble. No doubt, they and the Astros are stacked, but the Red Sox can compete with anyone in the league right now. We get a few guys to straighten up & play to their potential, & the pitching turns around, everyone including Jacksonian knows that the Red Sox will be DANGEROUS in the coming post season!

 

Let him troll on. No worries.

 

I hear you. It's me. I have no patience with people who spend time trying to antagonize other people. For others.. it's ok.