Sox starting pitching thread

[harmony]

Last post this weekend ....I love the Redsox not 1 or 2 players .....second I won't ever blow sunshine up your ass when this team is a mirage ....facts .....Kelly and Barnes are in fact s***** pitchers regardless of what the numbers say fact Sandy Leon And Vaz are s***** ball players fact Dustin Pedroia is not who he was 10 years ago he is a banged up player who will never be the same after that horrible surgery fact Losing John Leater screwed this team for years fact Chris Sale is a tooth pick and throws a frisbee that has become easy to hit more often than the past fact Erod is schizophrenic with his talent fact David Price doesn't have the makeup of a champion fact 90 percent of this board has become sunshine and rainbows in regards to these players above ...fact they need to figure out JBJ ,Devers ,Vaz and Nuney quickly ...

I wish you the happiness that apparently has eluded you.

[jung]

I do think the Lester story at least as far as the fans go is a classic example of just not understanding how hard it is for a LH pitcher to survive pitching half his games in Fenway Park. It is a horrible place for LH pitchers. At least as fans we should have valued Lester much more than we did when we had him.

 

As to why Management seemed not to value him enough???? There is likely a lesson there for other players as it relates to Sox Management at least if in fact Sox Management has the same perspective now. NEVER and I do mean never offer that you as a player are going to be willing to entertain a Home Town Discount even if in fact you are willing to entertain one. Let that all come out in the wash between your agents and Sox Management. Do not open your big mouth unless in fact your intention is to get outta' town. Sox Management at least of that era simply did not have the means to process such a statement or such a position made through the media from a player. That set in motion a set of wheels that ultimately resulted in a cluster of a negotiation with both sides ultimately surrendering to their inability to get a deal done.

[Spudboy]

Oye.

[Bellhorn04]

facts .....Kelly and Barnes are in fact s***** pitchers regardless of what the numbers say

 

Yeah, when the hell have numbers had anything to do with baseball?

[Natick to NC]

Chris Sale and David Price are not delivering a World Series period ...why pretend that they will ? I say trade Sale for a huge Haul and rebuild the staff ....That's not popular while we stand a half game up but it's reality .

[Natick to NC]

Chris Sale and David Price are not delivering a World Series period ...why pretend that they will ? I say trade Sale for a huge Haul and rebuild the staff ....That's not popular while we stand a half game up but it's reality .

 

I do think the Lester story at least as far as the fans go is a classic example of just not understanding how hard it is for a LH pitcher to survive pitching half his games in Fenway Park. It is a horrible place for LH pitchers. At least as fans we should have valued Lester much more than we did when we had him.

 

As to why Management seemed not to value him enough???? There is likely a lesson there for other players as it relates to Sox Management at least if in fact Sox Management has the same perspective now. NEVER and I do mean never offer that you as a player are going to be willing to entertain a Home Town Discount even if in fact you are willing to entertain one. Let that all come out in the wash between your agents and Sox Management. Do not open your big mouth unless in fact your intention is to get outta' town. Sox Management at least of that era simply did not have the means to process such a statement or such a position made through the media from a player. That set in motion a set of wheels that ultimately resulted in a cluster of a negotiation with both sides ultimately surrendering to their inability to get a deal done.

 

I always thought Lester won from sheer will and superb focus he was Infact a winner ...say what you will about Price and Sale they are regular season winners and are failures when push comes to shove ....we cannot sniff the Worldseries with these two and minus Pedey ...it's just another wasted year for Mookie and JD if somethings not done to atleast right the ship now for the future to yield a Worldseries .

[jacksonianmarch]

N to N, you're looking at this the wrong way. Sale is a perfectly fine ace. Price is a perfectly fine mid rotation starter. Your issues in the rotation begin and end with Pom. Your top 4 have been very solid as a squad. Your #5 has been abhorrent. You've got other options, the question is whether Cora goes to them

[MADSTORK]

Issues with the rotation are very simple, they are not good enough to win a title and regardless of what happens in Houston these are the facts.

 

Attempt to trade Porcello and Pomeranz this deadline to free up cash for next seasons bonanza!

 

Dombrowski is delusional if he thinks this Staff can win a Series let alone make it to playoffs

Edited June 4, 2018 by MADSTORK

[Sox75]

Props to Price!

 

Another fine start. We dog him quite a bit, but he is beginning to put together a pretty nice comeback after a rocky patch.

 

Good on him! Kept us in the game, & got the win.

[Larry Cook]

Props to Price!

 

Another fine start. We dog him quite a bit, but he is beginning to put together a pretty nice comeback after a rocky patch.

 

Good on him! Kept us in the game, & got the win.

 

He has definitely reinvented himself with that cutter. Hopefully he throwing it for us late October/early November!

[jacksonianmarch]

Price isn’t an ace anymore. If people are willing to consider him as a number three and are willing to overlook his salary, they’ll be satisfied.

[Bellhorn04]

Issues with the rotation are very simple, they are not good enough to win a title and regardless of what happens in Houston these are the facts.

 

Attempt to trade Porcello and Pomeranz this deadline to free up cash for next seasons boanaza!

 

Dombrowski is delusional if he thinks this Staff can win a Series let alone make it to playoffs

 

Trading Pomeranz at the deadline is one of your stupidest ideas yet.

 

It won't 'free up' jack. He's a free agent next year and he looks like s*** so his value is depressed.

 

You're an idiot.

[cp176]

Trading Pomeranz at the deadline is one of your stupidest ideas yet.

 

It won't 'free up' jack. He's a free agent next year and he looks like s*** so his value is depressed.

 

You're an idiot.

 

Remember those blissful days when we had a relatively small group of posters who could argue vigorously amongst ourselves in the end knowing that we were in fact all cheering for the same team. Not anymore I guess - seems like we are actually have some real Sox haters posting here. Some kind of sound fairly stupid and a few others make a tremendous effort to convince us that they are intellectuals operating above our play scale. Takes all kinds I guess and helps to keep the forum rolling along.

[kenmeister]

I do think the Lester story at least as far as the fans go is a classic example of just not understanding how hard it is for a LH pitcher to survive pitching half his games in Fenway Park. It is a horrible place for LH pitchers. At least as fans we should have valued Lester much more than we did when we had him.

 

As to why Management seemed not to value him enough???? There is likely a lesson there for other players as it relates to Sox Management at least if in fact Sox Management has the same perspective now. NEVER and I do mean never offer that you as a player are going to be willing to entertain a Home Town Discount even if in fact you are willing to entertain one. Let that all come out in the wash between your agents and Sox Management. Do not open your big mouth unless in fact your intention is to get outta' town. Sox Management at least of that era simply did not have the means to process such a statement or such a position made through the media from a player. That set in motion a set of wheels that ultimately resulted in a cluster of a negotiation with both sides ultimately surrendering to their inability to get a deal done.

 

Losing Lester was one of many issues I had with the team's previous management. For what it's worth, I was aghast when they didn't resign Adrian Beltre, though that's going back a few more years. When a player proves they can play at a high level in Boston, I think Boston should make the extra effort to retain them. Not everyone can. So you had losing key players like Lester, Miller, Beltre, and the most inexplicable one in Lackey, taking on players who can't perform well here like Crawford, Sandoval, and Ramirez, resigning players past their prime like Beckett (and let's face it, Pedroia's contract is too long), and not going after key free agents like Scherzer and Nelson Cruz, and it's actually amazing a world series win was obtained this decade. Sandoval and Pedroia's contract will expire soon I think, but Price will be here for a while and as stated up thread, he's already just a #3. By the end of his contract we'll be lucky if he can nail the #5 spot. It is my sincere hope that the bad contracts end, the quality players like Betts are retained, and the critical free agents like JDM continue to be identified and signed.

 

The franchise is definitely going in the right direction and I think the starting pitching depth proves it. Now back to the Pomeranz-out-of-the-rotation watch.

[illinoisredsox]

Losing Lester was one of many issues I had with the team's previous management. For what it's worth, I was aghast when they didn't resign Adrian Beltre, though that's going back a few more years. When a player proves they can play at a high level in Boston, I think Boston should make the extra effort to retain them. Not everyone can. So you had losing key players like Lester, Miller, Beltre, and the most inexplicable one in Lackey, taking on players who can't perform well here like Crawford, Sandoval, and Ramirez, resigning players past their prime like Beckett (and let's face it, Pedroia's contract is too long), and not going after key free agents like Scherzer and Nelson Cruz, and it's actually amazing a world series win was obtained this decade. Sandoval and Pedroia's contract will expire soon I think, but Price will be here for a while and as stated up thread, he's already just a #3. By the end of his contract we'll be lucky if he can nail the #5 spot. It is my sincere hope that the bad contracts end, the quality players like Betts are retained, and the critical free agents like JDM continue to be identified and signed.

 

The franchise is definitely going in the right direction and I think the starting pitching depth proves it. Now back to the Pomeranz-out-of-the-rotation watch.

 

I've always wondered how much Lester really wanted to stay. Yes, the initial offer from the Sox was insulting, but there were never any reports of a counteroffer by his side (even an insanely high one). I think he always intended to get to free agent status unless the Sox blew him away with an offer early on.

[Bellhorn04]

Losing Lester was one of many issues I had with the team's previous management. For what it's worth, I was aghast when they didn't resign Adrian Beltre, though that's going back a few more years. When a player proves they can play at a high level in Boston, I think Boston should make the extra effort to retain them. Not everyone can. So you had losing key players like Lester, Miller, Beltre, and the most inexplicable one in Lackey, taking on players who can't perform well here like Crawford, Sandoval, and Ramirez, resigning players past their prime like Beckett (and let's face it, Pedroia's contract is too long), and not going after key free agents like Scherzer and Nelson Cruz, and it's actually amazing a world series win was obtained this decade. Sandoval and Pedroia's contract will expire soon I think, but Price will be here for a while and as stated up thread, he's already just a #3. By the end of his contract we'll be lucky if he can nail the #5 spot. It is my sincere hope that the bad contracts end, the quality players like Betts are retained, and the critical free agents like JDM continue to be identified and signed.

 

The franchise is definitely going in the right direction and I think the starting pitching depth proves it. Now back to the Pomeranz-out-of-the-rotation watch.

 

I think it's a little early to be saying Price is now a #3. I think he still has a bit more upside than that.

[Spudboy]

Trading Pomeranz at the deadline is one of your stupidest ideas yet.

 

It won't 'free up' jack. He's a free agent next year and he looks like s*** so his value is depressed.

 

You're an idiot.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!1!!1!1

 

 

Great, Now I have spit coffee though my noise and onto my laptop keyboard.

 

But it was worth it!

[Kimmi]

I think it's a little early to be saying Price is now a #3. I think he still has a bit more upside than that.

 

Price is a top #2, at worse. IMO, he's still a #1 pitcher, though I would no longer classify him as an 'ace'.

[notin]

Issues with the rotation are very simple, they are not good enough to win a title and regardless of what happens in Houston these are the facts.

 

Attempt to trade Porcello and Pomeranz this deadline to free up cash for next seasons boanaza!

 

Dombrowski is delusional if he thinks this Staff can win a Series let alone make it to playoffs

 

Posts like this often come from a place of ignorance, not expertise...

[notin]

I think it's a little early to be saying Price is now a #3. I think he still has a bit more upside than that.

 

He'd like Price a lot better of David was in pinstripes.

 

If Price is #3, Tanaka (4.79ERA, 5.06FIP and 2.0 HR/9) is a marginal #5...

[Slasher9]

Trading Pomeranz at the deadline is one of your stupidest ideas yet.

 

It won't 'free up' jack. He's a free agent next year and he looks like s*** so his value is depressed.

 

You're an idiot.

 

A hahahaha. Perfect reply.

Hfx....i believe this is the only poster that gets under your skin, true?

[Slasher9]

I've always wondered how much Lester really wanted to stay. Yes, the initial offer from the Sox was insulting, but there were never any reports of a counteroffer by his side (even an insanely high one). I think he always intended to get to free agent status unless the Sox blew him away with an offer early on.

 

Very interesting. I have never considered this.

[Slasher9]

Remember those blissful days when we had a relatively small group of posters who could argue vigorously amongst ourselves in the end knowing that we were in fact all cheering for the same team. Not anymore I guess - seems like we are actually have some real Sox haters posting here. Some kind of sound fairly stupid and a few others make a tremendous effort to convince us that they are intellectuals operating above our play scale. Takes all kinds I guess and helps to keep the forum rolling along.

 

Yes! Make TalkSox Great Again!

MTGA

[Bellhorn04]

A hahahaha. Perfect reply.

Hfx....i believe this is the only poster that gets under your skin, true?

 

You don't miss much, do you?

[cp176]

Yes! Make TalkSox Great Again!

MTGA

 

You trying to say something here?

Like I said - takes all kinds.

[Maxbialystock]

To me our rotation is what it is.

 

Like the little girl with a curl, when she was good, she was very, very good, and when she was bad, she was horrid.

 

Last night we saw Porcello be both very good and horrid.

 

On the other hand, the Sox just split four games at Houston against easily the best pitching staff and the best rotation in MLB. I give a ton of credit to the lineup, who really came thru, and even to the bullpen, but none of our starters--Pom, Sale, Price, and Porcello--was bombed the way starters as recently as last year were. By that I mean the "7 run rule," which Cora clearly does not believe in.

 

Of all MLB pitchers, right now Sale is 7th in WAR, Porcello 15th, and Rodriguez 31st. And Price should get into the the top 30. I'll take that rotation any day of the week. I dislike Pom, but think Wright is the fix.

 

4th on the list is Verlander, the very same guy the Sox beat (well, he did leave with a 3-2 lead) last night. So to me it is inarguable that our starting pitching is not good enough or needs to be fixed.

[sk7326]

Everybody wants better starters. But realistically Hamels is the only starter available who could improve our rotation and that ain't happening.

 

Right now Sale-Price-Porcello-Rodriguez is a pretty good Top 4. Pomeranz could be good. Wright is more valuable where he is - as a guy who can soak up multiple bullpen innings.

[moonslav59]

I rarely critisize in game managerial moves, but while at the game last night I was surprised Porchello was not yanked when he walked Kemp on 4 pitches.

 

I still am thrilled with Cora so far.

[Maxbialystock]

I rarely critisize in game managerial moves, but while at the game last night I was surprised Porchello was not yanked when he walked Kemp on 4 pitches.

 

I still am thrilled with Cora so far.

 

Nobody ready, I suspect. He had thrown maybe 75 pitches after 6 and got the first guy out. Then the error by Nunez. Then the walk. As it was, we were lucky the HBP led to an injury delay and gave Barnes time to warm up.

[Bellhorn04]

I rarely critisize in game managerial moves, but while at the game last night I was surprised Porchello was not yanked when he walked Kemp on 4 pitches.

 

I still am thrilled with Cora so far.

 

A 6-1 lead and Porcello's pitch count was still pretty low. He was probably planning to cover the rest of the outs with Barnes and Kimbrel. If this is what we have to criticize Cora for he's doing pretty good.