When will David Price Return to the Hill?

[cp176]

At some point. for whatever reason, the fact that a posse joined in with him might be interpreted that Eck is not all that wildly popular among Sox players. You might get the nicest impression about him on NESN, but do you ever wonder why that posse joined in once Eck was off camera?

 

I don't know any of those answers either. But I do think the question needs to be asked.

 

I do disagree that Price is cultivating a culture that is "not in line with a winning attitude", as you put it. The Sox have won the AL East twice in two seasons since he got here and are off to a terrific start this year. What is it about this team that doesn't scream "winning attitude"? Is it all the winning?

 

It's a luxury to have two pitchers at the top of the rotation like Sale and Price. With those two leading off for us, we have one of the best one two punches in the game. It is hard to turn the page sometimes I guess but I haven't seen anything from him this year that is negative at all.

[S5Dewey]

At some point. for whatever reason, the fact that a posse joined in with him might be interpreted that Eck is not all that wildly popular among Sox players. You might get the nicest impression about him on NESN, but do you ever wonder why that posse joined in once Eck was off camera?

 

I don't know any of those answers either. But I do think the question needs to be asked.

 

I do disagree that Price is cultivating a culture that is "not in line with a winning attitude", as you put it. The Sox have won the AL East twice in two seasons since he got here and are off to a terrific start this year. What is it about this team that doesn't scream "winning attitude"? Is it all the winning?

 

Based on what Bogaerts and Betts had to say about last year's team there does seem to have been less than a winning attitude on last year's team.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22452855/mookie-betts-xander-bogaerts-acknowledge-red-sox-clubhouse-problems

 

It's very possible that they won 93 games in spite of themselves and had the "clubhouse culture" been better the would have gone deeper into the playoffs.

 

The 'really good news' (as I like to say) is that the players who see themselves as team leaders in 2018 have looked back a year, seen what the issues were, and are determined to not let it happen again.

 

Of course, winning does solve a lot of clubhouse issues too.

[cp176]

Based on what Bogaerts and Betts had to say about last year's team there does seem to have been less than a winning attitude on last year's team.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22452855/mookie-betts-xander-bogaerts-acknowledge-red-sox-clubhouse-problems

 

It's very possible that they won 93 games in spite of themselves and had the "clubhouse culture" been better the would have gone deeper into the playoffs.

 

The 'really good news' (as I like to say) is that the players who see themselves as team leaders in 2018 have looked back a year, seen what the issues were, and are determined to not let it happen again.

 

Of course, winning does solve a lot of clubhouse issues too.

 

I think that you are right. Maybe some of our youngsters are in fact growing up. Sometimes younger guys obviously tend to be in awe of older proven veterans - makes sense. Playing with Pedroia in the dugout and succeeding has been good for this club. If he comes back healthy, he will help us but he doesn't need to worry about trying to be a leader. He just needs to play.

[Bellhorn04]

Based on what Bogaerts and Betts had to say about last year's team there does seem to have been less than a winning attitude on last year's team.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22452855/mookie-betts-xander-bogaerts-acknowledge-red-sox-clubhouse-problems

 

It's very possible that they won 93 games in spite of themselves and had the "clubhouse culture" been better the would have gone deeper into the playoffs.

 

The 'really good news' (as I like to say) is that the players who see themselves as team leaders in 2018 have looked back a year, seen what the issues were, and are determined to not let it happen again.

 

Of course, winning does solve a lot of clubhouse issues too.

 

It's always easy to have 20/20 hindsight, but it looks like a lot of the issues fall at Farrell's feet. He handled the Machado-Pedroia thing poorly and he handled the Price-Eck thing poorly.

[SoxnCycles]

At some point. for whatever reason, the fact that a posse joined in with him might be interpreted that Eck is not all that wildly popular among Sox players. You might get the nicest impression about him on NESN, but do you ever wonder why that posse joined in once Eck was off camera?

I don't know any of those answers either. But I do think the question needs to be asked.

 

I do disagree that Price is cultivating a culture that is "not in line with a winning attitude", as you put it. The Sox have won the AL East twice in two seasons since he got here and are off to a terrific start this year. What is it about this team that doesn't scream "winning attitude"? Is it all the winning?

 

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because they've been getting their asses kissed for so long, the kids have forgotten what it's like to have someone tell them the truth for a change?

[SoxnCycles]

It's always easy to have 20/20 hindsight, but it looks like a lot of the issues fall at Farrell's feet. He handled the Machado-Pedroia thing poorly and he handled the Price-Eck thing poorly.

 

True.

[S5Dewey]

It's always easy to have 20/20 hindsight, but it looks like a lot of the issues fall at Farrell's feet. He handled the Machado-Pedroia thing poorly and he handled the Price-Eck thing poorly.

 

I had a feeling of incompletion in both of those instances - like they were never resolved. In both of those instances it's pretty hard to put that cat back into the bag. What was done was done and (IMO) they fractured the clubhouse.

 

As was said about 20/20 hindsight, it appears that Farrell may have had the same malady as Tito - he lost the clubhouse over those two issues - and that's why he's now selling cars someplace (metaphorically speaking). Cora seem to be a change that was needed.

 

I still think there's a place for John Farrell in MLB but Boston in 2018 isn't it.

[Bellhorn04]

Issues between players and the press have been going on as long as there's been baseball. Last year Farrell needed to make Price apologize to Eck and put the thing to bed instead of letting it fester like it did.

[Bellhorn04]

I still think there's a place for John Farrell in MLB but Boston in 2018 isn't it.

 

Farrell could probably get another job as a pitching coach, easy, if he was willing to accept that role again.

[mvp 78]

Issues between players and the press have been going on as long as there's been baseball. Last year Farrell needed to make Price apologize to Eck and put the thing to bed instead of letting it fester like it did.

 

Farrell wasn’t a leader. He was asleep at the wheel.

[S5Dewey]

Issues between players and the press have been going on as long as there's been baseball. Last year Farrell needed to make Price apologize to Eck and put the thing to bed instead of letting it fester like it did.

 

This is what I meant about putting the cat back in the bag. I don't think there was a good resolution to either situation. "Making" someone apologize, whether it's Price to Eck or Pedey to the clubhouse, has the potential to only make the situation worse. Apologies don't mean much unless they're meant, players had taken sides, and a known forced apology would only fracture the clubhouse further.

 

Yet again IMO, Price and Pedey both have pretty big egos and they both shot their mouths off without thinking first. The clubhouse needs to - and has - a year later put these issues behind them and are willing to move on. Maybe not forgetting, but forgiving. Although I'll admit that I'm still a bit concerned about what's going to happen when Pedey gets back full-time.

[Sox75]

You just like to worry and can work yourself into a frenzy when the Sox are 14-2 and Price hasn't missed a start. Pretty impressive that you can do that, actually.

 

Originally Posted by Sox75 View Post

It does appear that way? So, what's the lesson? What is it that Red Sox fans like to discuss? Red Sox? Red Sox drama? Price has certainly provided a good deal of that. He was most definitely very open with his feelings about a number of things last year, and since coming to Boston for that matter. He's now jumped 2 Boston Sports reporters, and does not seem to care for the fans all that much. It seems natural that fans might discuss it when yet another problem with Price pops up.

 

We paid THE HIGHEST PRICE in red Sox history for an #1 ACE of all ACES, but thus far have gotten a good deal of nebulous excuses, and somewhat less than crystal clear 'injuries.'

 

Price starts talking 'tingling,' after a horrific outing, & yet again dances around the specifics, and you think guys aren't going to talk about it? He GOES OFF on 2 exceptionally mild Boston Sports Reporters / color guys last year, & you think guys are not going to talk about it? He has injury after injury, generally after a shyte outing, and you think guys aren't going to talk about it?

 

He. Even says he talked to JDM about how difficult Boston is for certain athletes..... He very clearly embarrassed & mocked Eck last year, and had a posse to join in on it..... He seemed to be cultivating a culture of disdain with a number of young players for the Boston Sports Media & fans (fans to a somewhat lesser degree), which appeared to be exceptionally corrosive? I personally think he was leading our young guys down a very unhealthy path, and it most definitely was not in line with a winning attitude.

 

I'm ALWAYS willing to turn the page with a guy, and give him a second, third, fourth, 10th chance...., so long as they are a Red Sox player!!! I will again and again with Price!

 

Still, can we cut the s*** on pretending we have nothing to worry about with the guy!

 

--------------

 

Maxi,

 

LOL :0 "You like to worry, & work yourself into a frenzy..."

 

I get your spin, & no worries. That's not at all what I was doing, & I respect the opinion that we all just want to move on from what happened last year. I really do. Of course, if you look back, I've been very clear in giving Price a great deal of respect. I've said I'm rooting like hell for the guy, despite an often negative attitude toward Boston, especially the Boston Sports media.

 

I will say again, that David has had several nebulous injuries, and last year seemed epic. Also epic, was David's angry approach from the get go. He came into to season injured & often popping off & taking on Boston Sports media. He also seemed less than complimentary of Boston Sports fans. He pretty famously & angrily said he was refusing to do interviews other than game day. Later, he blew up & refused any interview. He proceeded to go out of his way to inexplicably attack Evan Drellich & later Eck. His behavior was hostile from day 1. Many covering the Sox talked about a growing clubhouse antipathy toward the Press, and a quiet & growing hostility & insularity with too many young players. David's negative attitude certainly seemed to be taking root in the clubhouse.... That perception may have been wrong, but many familiar with the players were talking about it.

 

Directly after the brew haha with Eck, the s*** hit the ran. Next thing you know, Price sits out of his next start.... "a no big deal 'injury' stretches on for 2 months.... Sorry, for me it was a bit too convenient. The injury, that he himself said, "was nowhere near as bad as at the beginning of the season," went on & on with little explanation.

 

so, Do I, "like to worry, & work myself into a frenzy?" No. Do I worry about David's injury history with Boston, and worry about David's attitude when things go wrong for him? Yeh. Actually I do. Sorry! I just do.

 

Am I still going to root like hell for him, as I did when he returned for the post season in 2017? You bet! I hope like hell he has a great season, and I hope he can ignore the bad press after the inevitable bad starts. He seemed obsessed with ANY bad press & ANY negative comments about ANY player last year. Frankly, it was a bit bizzare. He seemed to think that it was his mission to go out of his way to angrily confront head on every critical assessment of every blown play, or blown start, by every player on the team. Quite frankly, TO ME it looked like a guy selfishly using negative comments by the press about OTHER players, i.e. the NOTHING-BURGER comments by Eck about that E-Rod outing..... Again, TO ME & many others, it looked like Price was USING those nothing comments to beat down Eck because he wanted to unload on the Boston Sports Media for negative things said about HIM. That's absolutely how I viewed what he was doing all year long.... become "the clubhouse leader" who would slap the s*** out of any press member who dared say anything negative about any of HIS guys. It flat out was not creating a positive, baseball first, "it's all about winning," culture in the clubhouse. It became negative and corrosive.

 

Yes! We won a lot, but fell apart in the post season yet again. For whatever reason, the focus wasn't there. I personally attribute much of that to players focusing on too many other things? idk at all for sure, but the negativity & obsession with "bad press" didn't seem to help anybody on the team? To me, & perhaps me alone, it didn't seem conducive to a winning attitude. A positive mindset. However you want to put it, it didn't seem helpful for a young exciting team to become so aggravated and insular? There were many alluding to David's 'leadership' in that area? I honestly think it was a very corrosive thing in the clubhouse, and it did not help our young players one bit!

 

 

For the record, Cora seems to have turned the page, and I love their attitude THIS NEW SEASON! "It's all about baseball & winning!" I love it! The subtext seems to be, "no ********, just go out and win."

 

 

Also...... Hats off to David for coming right back with a great start! He looked & pitched great! I'm his biggest fan!!! I hope & pray he just goes out & pitches, and that I don't over-react to any set backs or injuries this season!!!!

Edited April 18, 2018 by Sox75

[moonslav59]

This is what I meant about putting the cat back in the bag. I don't think there was a good resolution to either situation. "Making" someone apologize, whether it's Price to Eck or Pedey to the clubhouse, has the potential to only make the situation worse. Apologies don't mean much unless they're meant, players had taken sides, and a known forced apology would only fracture the clubhouse further.

 

Yet again IMO, Price and Pedey both have pretty big egos and they both shot their mouths off without thinking first. The clubhouse needs to - and has - a year later put these issues behind them and are willing to move on. Maybe not forgetting, but forgiving. Although I'll admit that I'm still a bit concerned about what's going to happen when Pedey gets back full-time.

 

Well said. I might add that maybe "forgiving" is not really needed either. Just get over it.

 

On Pedey's return: I think we start out slow with Pedey. We may only play him 2 out of 3 games to start, then slowly move to 3 out of 4, 4 out of 5, and maybe settle in at 6 out of 7 or 7 out of 8. Let's say we settle on 7 out of 8. That might mean Nunez can see this amount of playing time:

 

2 out of 16 at 2B

1 out of 16 at SS

1 out of 16 at 3B

1 out of 16 at DH

4 out of 16 in LF (as one from Beni, JBJ and Betts are "rested" 1 out of 4 games.)

 

That's 9 out of 16 games started by Nunez plus some PH opportunities. Maybe that's not enough, but this is assuming zero injuries to 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF, RF and DH.

 

[S5Dewey]

Well said. I might add that maybe "forgiving" is not really needed either. Just get over it.

 

On Pedey's return: I think we start out slow with Pedey. We may only play him 2 out of 3 games to start, then slowly move to 3 out of 4, 4 out of 5, and maybe settle in at 6 out of 7 or 7 out of 8. Let's say we settle on 7 out of 8. That might mean Nunez can see this amount of playing time:

 

2 out of 16 at 2B

1 out of 16 at SS

1 out of 16 at 3B

1 out of 16 at DH

4 out of 16 in LF (as one from Beni, JBJ and Betts are "rested" 1 out of 4 games.)

 

That's 9 out of 16 games started by Nunez plus some PH opportunities. Maybe that's not enough, but this is assuming zero injuries to 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF, RF and DH.

 

 

I'm not concerned about Pedey's abilities on the field. He's not 23 years old any more but at his age he's better than many 23 year olds. My concern is more about the residual effect of "It's not me, it's them" in the clubhouse. I see three ways this could go down.

 

1. Pedey sees himself as somewhat of a leader and he may carry some animosity forward because he (apparently) wasn't "followed" after the Machado incident.

2. The players from last year's team may look at Pedey and think "This guy doesn't have my back. This is all about him. We went to bat for him and he threw us under the bus."

3. Everyone comes back a year older and wiser with the attitude that "s*** happens" and they put it behind them. This is what I hope happens but I'm not so naive that I think it's guaranteed. People are people and egos are egos and sometimes a perceived slight can open a lasting wound.

 

Or maybe my concerns are unfounded. We'll see.

[mvp 78]

I'm not concerned about Pedey's abilities on the field. He's not 23 years old any more but at his age he's better than many 23 year olds. My concern is more about the residual effect of "It's not me, it's them" in the clubhouse. I see three ways this could go down.

 

1. Pedey sees himself as somewhat of a leader and he may carry some animosity forward because he (apparently) wasn't "followed" after the Machado incident.

2. The players from last year's team may look at Pedey and think "This guy doesn't have my back. This is all about him. We went to bat for him and he threw us under the bus."

3. Everyone comes back a year older and wiser with the attitude that "s*** happens" and they put it behind them. This is what I hope happens but I'm not so naive that I think it's guaranteed. People are people and egos are egos and sometimes a perceived slight can open a lasting wound.

 

Or maybe my concerns are unfounded. We'll see.

 

If there was still a residual effect from that, we'd be seeing it right now. He's with the team day in and day out. He's a fixture in the dugout. If he was a rotten apple, the barrel would've been spoiled this year.

[Slasher9]

I'm not concerned about Pedey's abilities on the field. He's not 23 years old any more but at his age he's better than many 23 year olds. My concern is more about the residual effect of "It's not me, it's them" in the clubhouse. I see three ways this could go down.

 

1. Pedey sees himself as somewhat of a leader and he may carry some animosity forward because he (apparently) wasn't "followed" after the Machado incident.

2. The players from last year's team may look at Pedey and think "This guy doesn't have my back. This is all about him. We went to bat for him and he threw us under the bus."

3. Everyone comes back a year older and wiser with the attitude that "s*** happens" and they put it behind them. This is what I hope happens but I'm not so naive that I think it's guaranteed. People are people and egos are egos and sometimes a perceived slight can open a lasting wound.

 

Or maybe my concerns are unfounded. We'll see.

 

excellent points. dammit. i think it will be a combo of 1 & 2.

[notin]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because they've been getting their asses kissed for so long, the kids have forgotten what it's like to have someone tell them the truth for a change?

 

But is hearing the harsh realities necessary to having a winning attitude?

 

This isn't about whether Eck was right or wrong. Your supposition was that Price was a poison to the team's winning attitude. While Price might be a very unpleasant human being, is he really so toxic? Is he an issue at all? The Sox have been immensely successful since he arrived. Is that a coincidence? Would the Sox, coming off back to back last place finishes, been the same, better, or worse without him?

 

That last part is obviously subjective and conjecture. But do you see where I'm going here?

[cp176]

If there was still a residual effect from that, we'd be seeing it right now. He's with the team day in and day out. He's a fixture in the dugout. If he was a rotten apple, the barrel would've been spoiled this year.

 

I think that it has been great that Pedroia has has to sit in that dugout and watch this team win without him. It should motivate him. Used to use an old trick with the prima donnas - put your hand in a bucket of water and watch the ripples build - take your hand out of the bucket and watch how fast everything gets back to normal. No one is indispensable - they can be replaced. I'm thinking that he comes back and helps this team.

[SoxnCycles]

But is hearing the harsh realities necessary to having a winning attitude?

 

This isn't about whether Eck was right or wrong. Your supposition was that Price was a poison to the team's winning attitude. While Price might be a very unpleasant human being, is he really so toxic? Is he an issue at all? The Sox have been immensely successful since he arrived. Is that a coincidence? Would the Sox, coming off back to back last place finishes, been the same, better, or worse without him?

 

That last part is obviously subjective and conjecture. But do you see where I'm going here?

 

The answer is it depends.

If the group of brats who applauded the incident on the plane still think that's the proper way to handle an issue with the media, then issues could crop up again this year.

 

If Cora gets in their faces about it (unlike Farrel), or if there are members of the team that don't agree with tthat behavior, there could be some real problems in the clubhouse. That could affect the win/loss record.

 

While I think Price is a sensitive little prick, I don't believe he can sink this team on his own.

[mvp 78]

I think that it has been great that Pedroia has has to sit in that dugout and watch this team win without him. It should motivate him. Used to use an old trick with the prima donnas - put your hand in a bucket of water and watch the ripples build - take your hand out of the bucket and watch how fast everything gets back to normal. No one is indispensable - they can be replaced. I'm thinking that he comes back and helps this team.

 

We'll see. If he's a negative oWAR guy again, I'm sure I'll be very quiet about it.

[notin]

I'm not concerned about Pedey's abilities on the field. He's not 23 years old any more but at his age he's better than many 23 year olds. My concern is more about the residual effect of "It's not me, it's them" in the clubhouse. I see three ways this could go down.

 

1. Pedey sees himself as somewhat of a leader and he may carry some animosity forward because he (apparently) wasn't "followed" after the Machado incident.

2. The players from last year's team may look at Pedey and think "This guy doesn't have my back. This is all about him. We went to bat for him and he threw us under the bus."

3. Everyone comes back a year older and wiser with the attitude that "s*** happens" and they put it behind them. This is what I hope happens but I'm not so naive that I think it's guaranteed. People are people and egos are egos and sometimes a perceived slight can open a lasting wound.

 

Or maybe my concerns are unfounded. We'll see.

 

I think the concerns are unfounded...

[Kimmi]

I think the concerns are unfounded...

 

As do I.

[Maxbialystock]

As do I.

 

As do I. In fact, I think the "concerns" about Pedey are specious. Two years ago--actually, 18 months ago--he finished the 2016 season with the 14th highest WAR in the American League. Last year he played hurt when he played at all.

 

The only thing holding him back is the knee and/or injuries in general. When he is healthy, he can still be good.

[Slasher9]

As do I. In fact, I think the "concerns" about Pedey are specious. Two years ago--actually, 18 months ago--he finished the 2016 season with the 14th highest WAR in the American League. Last year he played hurt when he played at all.

 

The only thing holding him back is the knee and/or injuries in general. When he is healthy, he can still be good.

no one is questioning how he will play (i dont think). the question is...will he act like a baby dick? will he be disruptive to the chemistry?

 

from S5's post:

I'm not concerned about Pedey's abilities on the field. He's not 23 years old any more but at his age he's better than many 23 year olds. My concern is more about the residual effect of "It's not me, it's them" in the clubhouse. I see three ways this could go down.

 

1. Pedey sees himself as somewhat of a leader and he may carry some animosity forward because he (apparently) wasn't "followed" after the Machado incident.

2. The players from last year's team may look at Pedey and think "This guy doesn't have my back. This is all about him. We went to bat for him and he threw us under the bus."

[mvp 78]

The difference this year is that I believe Cora won't let Pedey be such a douche.

[Kimmi]

no one is questioning how he will play (i dont think). the question is...will he act like a baby dick? will he be disruptive to the chemistry?

 

from S5's post:

I'm not concerned about Pedey's abilities on the field. He's not 23 years old any more but at his age he's better than many 23 year olds. My concern is more about the residual effect of "It's not me, it's them" in the clubhouse. I see three ways this could go down.

 

1. Pedey sees himself as somewhat of a leader and he may carry some animosity forward because he (apparently) wasn't "followed" after the Machado incident.

2. The players from last year's team may look at Pedey and think "This guy doesn't have my back. This is all about him. We went to bat for him and he threw us under the bus."

 

There are some who are questioning his ability to play, but I get that that was not the issue.

 

As far as I know, no one who has ever played with him, currently or in the past, has ever called his leadership or whether he is a good teammate into question. The comments in response to those types of questions are always positive. I also get that his current teammates are likely not going to throw him under the bus, but his former teammates who have nothing to lose by being truthful, have also spoken very highly of him.

[User Name]

Price is going to be just fine.

[Spudboy]

Of course he will be.

 

He is still one of the best starters in the game.

[notin]

no one is questioning how he will play (i dont think). the question is...will he act like a baby dick? will he be disruptive to the chemistry?

 

from S5's post:

I'm not concerned about Pedey's abilities on the field. He's not 23 years old any more but at his age he's better than many 23 year olds. My concern is more about the residual effect of "It's not me, it's them" in the clubhouse. I see three ways this could go down.

 

1. Pedey sees himself as somewhat of a leader and he may carry some animosity forward because he (apparently) wasn't "followed" after the Machado incident.

2. The players from last year's team may look at Pedey and think "This guy doesn't have my back. This is all about him. We went to bat for him and he threw us under the bus."

 

 

I think people are probably making way too big of a deal of that incident without knowing the whole story.

[Slasher9]

I think people are probably making way too big of a deal of that incident without knowing the whole story.

 

He literally is on tape saying “it’s them, not me”. What story do you think we’re missing? He literally shouts it across the diamond.....