Red Sox To Sign J.D. Martinez

[notin]

The game of baseball is a beautiful game filled with all kinds of strategy that the average player could give two big shits about. The brainiacs as you like to call them seem to be out in force trying paint lipstick on the pig here. Best of luck to any manager who tries to convince these guys that what fangraphs has to say about them daily has any significance what so ever! Gets a big f***ing lol from me Spud but remember I am one of the old fools.

 

Actually plenty of players have embraced the advanced metrics to improve their game. Josh Reddick, for example,gave a lengthy interview on the subject. Gabe Kapler did one also where he was shocked at the amont if data he was asked to go over for a minor league manager position. Again, minor league.

 

Really it seems like the only reason players avoid fangraphs stats is to embrace the even more modern Stat Cast, which is more about physics and attempts to teach players to optimize their launch angle and exit velocity. Teams even have bats with sensors in them that help players optimize their swings...

[cp176]

Actually plenty of players have embraced the advanced metrics to improve their game. Josh Reddick, for example,gave a lengthy interview on the subject. Gabe Kapler did one also where he was shocked at the amont if data he was asked to go over for a minor league manager position. Again, minor league.

 

Really it seems like the only reason players avoid fangraphs stats is to embrace the even more modern Stat Cast, which is more about physics and attempts to teach players to optimize their launch angle and exit velocity. Teams even have bats with sensors in them that help players optimize their swings...

 

OH I'm sure that you are right. It's a brave new world. My guess and that is all it is, is that someone else (manager) is passing the information on to the players. Until it can be proven to me that a majority of the people actually playing the game are studying up hard on all things statistical, I'm going to continue to believe that a clear majority of them still embrace the KISS principle. My opinion is that there are people out there doing all of the data collection who truly want to play a large helpful role with respect to an age old game. I also believe that information overload can be a bad thing as well.

[mvp 78]

Whatever happened to the mystery team that wanted to sign JD?

[jacksonianmarch]

The negotiations were between the sox, the sox and the sox. Boras couldn’t get the sox to bid against themselves

[Bellhorn04]

Whatever happened to the mystery team that wanted to sign JD?

 

Ask harmony. And while you're at it, remind him that he lost his bet. He took the field against the Red Sox.

[SoxnCycles]

OH I'm sure that you are right. It's a brave new world. My guess and that is all it is, is that someone else (manager) is passing the information on to the players. Until it can be proven to me that a majority of the people actually playing the game are studying up hard on all things statistical, I'm going to continue to believe that a clear majority of them still embrace the KISS principle. My opinion is that there are people out there doing all of the data collection who truly want to play a large helpful role with respect to an age old game. I also believe that information overload can be a bad thing as well.

 

A lot of them wear the same socks during a hitting streak too.

Do you buy into that also, because the players do?

 

There are a lot of smart players out there, but they're not the majority.

[Bellhorn04]

The negotiations were between the sox, the sox and the sox. Boras couldn’t get the sox to bid against themselves

 

All things considered we were a bit lucky there were no other bidders. At the start of the offseason I figured JD would probably get the 6/150 that MLBTR predicted.

[SoxnCycles]

The negotiations were between the sox, the sox and the sox. Boras couldn’t get the sox to bid against themselves

 

That was nice to see, for a change.

[Bellhorn04]

A lot of them wear the same socks during a hitting streak too.

Do you buy into that also, because the players do?

 

There are a lot of smart players out there, but they're not the majority.

 

There is no other sport as conducive to superstition as baseball. It's a beautiful game; it's also a weird and freaky game, and that's part of its appeal.

[SoxnCycles]

No one has even come close to saying that people should not consider any metric that might help them make an educated decision. I certainly would but ultimately my mind would not be made up until I saw him play. It seems to me that people who have great great faith in metrics do not even think for one minute that there is any other way to even help evaluate talent. I think that that is very sad. With respect to your view on pitchers - 6 to 6.5 really - 4 to 4.5 absolutely I would have to see him throw before I made up my mind.

 

This is interesting: you take exception to suggestion that metrics are the only way to evaluate a player (even though that's not what Kimmi said), but then throw in the "people who have great great faith in metrics do not even think for one minute that there is any other way to even help evaluate talent.".

 

I'm pretty sure no one has ever said that either.

[SoxnCycles]

There is no other sport as conducive to superstition as baseball. It's a beautiful game; it's also a weird and freaky game, and that's part of its appeal.

 

Yup, it's one of the reasons why I watch.

But, I don't think I'd want any of them teaching a physics course.

[Jack Flap]

Players who don't pay attention to or place any value on advanced numbers (and I'd hazard a guess that there are a lot more who do than there were 10 or 20 years ago) might want to consider starting, because the teams who pay them certainly do. We're just coming out of an offseason defined by a massive disconnect between what players think they are worth and what teams are actually willing to pay, and if I was a player, I'd want to know why that was and what I could do to keep it from happening to me next time...

[Jack Flap]

The insinuation here is that I might not give any thought to defensive metrics and that is not right. The but is here that I would not make a definitive call until I actually saw him play. I certainly have not suggested ever that we break up our current outfield to play JD. I don't remember ever saying that you can know nothing about a player's potential to play a position until you have seen him play. I'm a little defensive here - I get that- but once again someone is trying to shape what I have written into what they want to hear. Oh well.

I will just add that I just read an article in which Martinez actually said that one of the reasons he came to Boston was that he was going to get the chance to play in the outfield on occasion. And also this for the people who feel that it is predominantly about the analytics - Cora has recently said that JD may in fact hit third. No commitment being made at this time. If Martinez is one of our best hitters, why in the devil would Alex Cora say that he might occupy the 3 hole where according to some that is the spot saved for you 5th best hitter. He certainly has been schooled in all things analytical, I just don't get it.

 

Well, I'll just say I apologize if I mischaracterized what you were trying to say, and leave it at that.

[Jack Flap]

Whatever happened to the mystery team that wanted to sign JD?

 

They have probably moved on to bidding for Arrieta and Moustakas.

[cp176]

This is interesting: you take exception to suggestion that metrics are the only way to evaluate a player (even though that's not what Kimmi said), but then throw in the "people who have great great faith in metrics do not even think for one minute that there is any other way to even help evaluate talent.".

 

I'm pretty sure no one has ever said that either.

 

No - Kimmi has not said that. She has said numerous times that she believes in the fact that there are some things that are just unmeasurable at work as well. I really wasn't trying to take a direct shot at anybody. Just defending my point of view which is a minority opinion here. Kim and I agree on many things relating to baseball.

[cp176]

A lot of them wear the same socks during a hitting streak too.

Do you buy into that also, because the players do?

 

There are a lot of smart players out there, but they're not the majority.

 

 

To answer your first question, yes in a way I do. I'v known a lot of very bright athletes who believe in all kinds of things that I might not think are for real but most are pretty harmless.

I agree with you although I really don't know about the number of smart players out there.

[devildavid]

OH I'm sure that you are right. It's a brave new world. My guess and that is all it is, is that someone else (manager) is passing the information on to the players. Until it can be proven to me that a majority of the people actually playing the game are studying up hard on all things statistical, I'm going to continue to believe that a clear majority of them still embrace the KISS principle. My opinion is that there are people out there doing all of the data collection who truly want to play a large helpful role with respect to an age old game. I also believe that information overload can be a bad thing as well.

 

Ted Williams saw hitting as a science and studied it extensively. He mapped out his optimal hitting zone. He weighed and honed his bats and was concerned about their moisture content. He expected his teammates to give him information about what the pitcher was throwing. He also shared all his knowledge of hitting, to friend and foe alike. He was hungry for every piece of information he could get. He certainly did not take the KISS approach.

[cp176]

Ted Williams saw hitting as a science and studied it extensively. He mapped out his optimal hitting zone. He weighed and honed his bats and was concerned about their moisture content. He expected his teammates to give him information about what the pitcher was throwing. He also shared all his knowledge of hitting, to friend and foe alike. He was hungry for every piece of information he could get. He certainly did not take the KISS approach.

 

Like I said earlier - beat down but not beaten - I guess that I would kind of expect it from a very bright man who I think continues to be the greatest hitter of all time. I do not think that are an abundance of players who cold do what he could do mentally. But I get it here- raising the white flag. An overload of information quite often for the average human is not good. KISS

[devildavid]

Like I said earlier - beat down but not beaten - I guess that I would kind of expect it from a very bright man who I think continues to be the greatest hitter of all time. I do not think that are an abundance of players who cold do what he could do mentally. But I get it here- raising the white flag. An overload of information quite often for the average human is not good. KISS

 

And too little information can impair the ability to improve and succeed. Players should be students of the game if they want to maximize their talent. In the old days, it often took the form of sharing tips and talking about opponents strengths and weaknesses while traveling together. Teammates should look out for each other and share helpful information that they might see better than the teammate they are advising. And just because some information may come in a numerical, statistical form does not mean it can't be properly utilized. The battle between a pitcher and hitter is as much mental as it is physical. Every little bit helps.

[notin]

Like I said earlier - beat down but not beaten - I guess that I would kind of expect it from a very bright man who I think continues to be the greatest hitter of all time. I do not think that are an abundance of players who cold do what he could do mentally. But I get it here- raising the white flag. An overload of information quite often for the average human is not good. KISS

 

We're not talking about average humans. We're talking about players trying to position themselves among the best 750 in the world. The level of talent to get that far is unfathomable to most people. And the lengths players have to go to distinguish themselves even more so...

[Bellhorn04]

Ted Williams saw hitting as a science and studied it extensively. He mapped out his optimal hitting zone. He weighed and honed his bats and was concerned about their moisture content. He expected his teammates to give him information about what the pitcher was throwing. He also shared all his knowledge of hitting, to friend and foe alike. He was hungry for every piece of information he could get. He certainly did not take the KISS approach.

 

You might say when it came to hitting, Ted Williams had a powerful computer in his head.

[mvp 78]

Ask harmony. And while you're at it, remind him that he lost his bet. He took the field against the Red Sox.

 

WE STILL DON'T KNOW IF THE SOX WERE THE HIGHEST BIDDER THO?

 

Do we?

[devildavid]

You might say when it came to hitting, Ted Williams had a powerful computer in his head.

 

I think David Ortiz did too. He could remember what pitchers threw him in past at bats in certain situations. This gave him an edge. Papi's image belies his smarts when it came to hitting. He was constantly working on his hitting, refining and improving it. He was one of the smartest hitters I have ever seen.

[harmony]

Ask harmony. And while you're at it, remind him that he lost his bet. He took the field against the Red Sox.

I indeed lost the bet that I said I would make if I were a betting person (which I am not).

 

In the end J.D. Martinez took what he thought was the best offer. I hope the deal works out for all sides.

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

 

On his podcast today Olney asked Dombrowski about JDM's opposite field power. Dombrowski said the analytics returned that it would play just fine in Fenway. Taking a quick peek at statcast, 43% of his opposite field HRs over the past couple of years have gone over 410'. Insane.

 

Oh la la!

 

I know it doesn't really work that way, but still...

[moonslav59]

@redsoxstats

 

On his podcast today Olney asked Dombrowski about JDM's opposite field power. Dombrowski said the analytics returned that it would play just fine in Fenway. Taking a quick peek at statcast, 43% of his opposite field HRs over the past couple of years have gone over 410'. Insane.

 

Oh la la!

 

I know it doesn't really work that way, but still...

 

Very encouraging.

 

I remember thinking AGon would hit 50.

 

[Kimmi]

Manny was bad all around. But when he was good, he was good.

 

 

Not the best highlight reel defense, but maximum bonus points awarded for high-fiving a fan and still completing the double play...

 

I love that play.

 

Despite the headaches that he supposedly caused the team, I remain a huge Manny fan. He kept me entertained.

[Kimmi]

No one has even come close to saying that people should not consider any metric that might help them make an educated decision. I certainly would but ultimately my mind would not be made up until I saw him play. It seems to me that people who have great great faith in metrics do not even think for one minute that there is any other way to even help evaluate talent. I think that that is very sad. With respect to your view on pitchers - 6 to 6.5 really - 4 to 4.5 absolutely I would have to see him throw before I made up my mind.

 

You are making strawman arguments cp.

 

I think most fans, including casual ones, would form the opinion that a pitcher with an ERA of 6+ is a bad pitcher, based on just that stat. And I don't think that anyone would question those fans as to whether they've actually seen him pitch or not.

 

So my question to you is why defensive metrics are any different.

[Bellhorn04]

That play by Manny was one of the best of all time. I had completely forgotten that it was Kevin Millar that hit that ball.

[Kimmi]

The game of baseball is a beautiful game filled with all kinds of strategy that the average player could give two big shits about. The brainiacs as you like to call them seem to be out in force trying paint lipstick on the pig here. Best of luck to any manager who tries to convince these guys that what fangraphs has to say about them daily has any significance what so ever! Gets a big f***ing lol from me Spud but remember I am one of the old fools.

 

You may not agree with it or like it, but that's one of the things Cora wants to focus on, relaying analytics to players in a way that they will accept what Fangraphs and other stat geeks have to say to them. Again, it's not trying to make them understand the statistics, but getting them to buy into why, for instance, Cora might want to bat JD 2nd instead of 3rd.