Martinez vs Hosmer vs Santana

[notin]

Would you say that if DD got Martinez and Moreland?

 

I see that as a gain offensively.

 

Probably not enough to outscore some teams but a move forward, anyway.

 

And it would be two actual moves.

 

Of course Martinez wants to play OF and has no desire to DH (per rotoworld), so we would have to deal Bradley.

 

Hopefully he can be dealt for a 1B better than Moreland.

 

It would be ba better hitting team but a worse fielding team. ..

[notin]

No he is not. He is better at some things which makes him better. But not by enough to justify difference in pay with Moreland.

 

I would not pay any more than 3/45 for Santana and that is an over-pay from where I sit.

 

Santana does some things better than Moreland? Yes, just a couple - hit, field and run the bases.

 

Don't get caught up in home runs; they aren't everything...

Edited December 16, 2017 by notin

[moonslav59]

I see that you have changed your mind or have warmed in some way to the idea of Morrison.

 

Maybe I am wrong in saying that but you seemed more sold on Duda and someone else weeks ago.

 

What's up?

 

I've never been against Morrison. I like Santana better.

 

The context of my wanting JD Martinez and Duda was assuming JD would DH, and Duda would...

 

1) squeeze HRam out of his vesting option

2) allow Duda to DH when JD plays the OF in NL parks and when an OF'er needs rest or is hurt

3) offers insurance against an injury to HRam or JD

4) is much cheaper than Morrison, Santana and Hosmer

5) will get much less years of commitment

6) has more power than Santana, Hosmer and maybe Morrison.

 

What's changed?

 

JD wants to play the OF, so I'm assuming, if we get JD, we trade JBJ for a pitcher and then need a DH/1B type hitter at minimal cost and minimal years. That's why I have Duda in my top 2 choices. It's close, to me, when you factor money, years and risk-reward factors between Duda & Morrison- assuming JD plays LF most of the time and DHs sparingly.

 

I put both of those choices way above any plan with Hosmer in it.

 

[moonslav59]

Santana does some things better than Moreland? Yes, just a couple - hit, field and run the bases.

 

Don't get caught up in home runs; they aren't everything...

 

Plus, he's about even in power.

[sk7326]

And this translates somehow into a huge advantage in what? WAR?

 

My point is valid. His on-field value is not 3-4 times that of Moreland. Not even 2 times.

 

But if I masturbated looking at stats I may feel differently.

 

Creating runs - which is kind of a big deal.

 

After all Pujols had 2 less homeruns too - and was one of the worse regulars in the entire league.

 

This applies double for Odor from Texas.

[harmony]

Boston GM Dave Dombrowski reportedly is "focused on getting one person."

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/12/alex_cora_on_boston_red_sox_qu.html

[harmony]

One blogger contends the Red Sox need to sign Eric Hosmer and J.D. Martinez:

 

https://thesporttank.com/2017/12/12/red-sox-must-make-a-play-for-both-eric-hosmer-and-j-d-martinez/

[moonslav59]

One blogger contends the Red Sox need to sign Eric Hosmer and J.D. Martinez:

 

https://thesporttank.com/2017/12/12/red-sox-must-make-a-play-for-both-eric-hosmer-and-j-d-martinez/

 

Again, I'd rather have neither than both.

 

Hosmer will be the biggest mistake signing this winter.

[Spudboy]

Again, I'd rather have neither than both.

 

Hosmer will be the biggest mistake signing this winter.

 

If he is signed for the expected bloated 5-6 year deal the Sox are making the whole Fatboy mistake again ( in that he is the "big splash free agent" at his position ).

.

 

Even if Hosmer remains functional, he likely will not be worth the deal to sign him.

[moonslav59]

If he is signed for the expected bloated 5-6 year deal the Sox are making the whole Fatboy mistake again ( in that he is the "big splash free agent" at his position ).

.

 

Even if Hosmer remains functional, he likely will not be worth the deal to sign him.

 

Hosmer is too wildly inconsistent from year to year.

 

He offers no more power than Moreland had/has.

 

His defense is over-rated.

 

Giving Hoze 4 or more years will be the biggest mistake any GM makes this winter. It's so bad, I'd give up getting JD just to not get Hoze. That's how strongly I feel about the hoze.

[mvp 78]

JD wants to play the OF, so I'm assuming, if we get JD, we trade JBJ for a pitcher and then need a DH/1B type hitter at minimal cost and minimal years.

 

All I've read is that he's willing to DH for BOS.

[mvp 78]

One blogger contends the Red Sox need to sign Eric Hosmer and J.D. Martinez:

 

https://thesporttank.com/2017/12/12/red-sox-must-make-a-play-for-both-eric-hosmer-and-j-d-martinez/

 

They aren't signing both.

[mvp 78]

Boston GM Dave Dombrowski reportedly is "focused on getting one person."

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/12/alex_cora_on_boston_red_sox_qu.html

 

It's JD.

[mvp 78]

Reminder: If JD does get overpaid, it may not be Dombrowski's fault. Boras has gone above Dombrowski's head before.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-hot-stove-the-strengths-and-weaknesses-of-boras-top-free-agent-clients/

 

General managers, the usually cool-headed decision makers who had historically made the call on how much to spend on talent, weren't necessarily going to back up the Brinks truck to land Fielder's services.

 

So Boras simply went around those general managers. Instead, he sussed out the handful of team owners who could be persuaded to think with their hearts and not their heads. He further narrowed that list down, identifying Mike Ilitch as a prime target for his seductive pitch. The Tigers owner desperately wanted to win a World Series. He already employed two handsomely paid superstars in Miguel Cabrera and Justin Verlander. And he was 83 years old, keenly aware of his mortality and how tough it could be to win it all. Here was a man committed to winning who might be willing to spend far more than anyone else would, if only to raise those hopes for postseason glory.

 

The result: Fielder inked a nine-year, $214 million megadeal that remains one of the 10 biggest ever signed by a baseball player. That number of years and dollars was shocking enough. What really made everyone's heads spin, though, was the timing. Fielder signed that contract on Jan. 26, 2012, six weeks after the Winter Meetings and long past the point at which free-agent bonanzas typically happen.

[sk7326]

The things with Hosmer (in particular) and Martinez is that Boston is the only team with both an identifiable need and a ton of money ... Boras has shown no hesitation to get into a staring contest in the past ... but the Red Sox might actually have the leverage here.

[mvp 78]

The things with Hosmer (in particular) and Martinez is that Boston is the only team with both an identifiable need and a ton of money ... Boras has shown no hesitation to get into a staring contest in the past ... but the Red Sox might actually have the leverage here.

 

I agree. Dombrowski should start putting out feelers to the other FA's and have them come by Fenway. JD doesn't want to lose out on his biggest payday. Right now, they are just hopping to get more bidders involved.

[harmony]

Again, I'd rather have neither than both.

 

Hosmer will be the biggest mistake signing this winter.

Eight years ago the Red Sox took a chance on an inconsistent corner infielder who, like Eric Hosmer, had won multiple Gold Gloves. Compare that player's line at the time and Hosmer's current line:

 

XX 6877 PA, .270/.325/.453/.779, OPS+ 105

EH 4393 PA, .284/.342/.439/.781. OPS+ 111

 

Player XX, of course, was Adrian Beltre, who eight years ago was two years older than Hosmer's current age.

 

Hosmer may not be the most attractive free agent but the 28-year-old should be given more credit.

[mvp 78]

Eight years ago the Red Sox took a chance on an inconsistent corner infielder who, like Eric Hosmer, had won multiple Gold Gloves. Compare that player's line at the time and Hosmer's current line:

 

XX 6877 PA, .270/.325/.453/.779, OPS+ 105

EH 4393 PA, .284/.342/.439/.781. OPS+ 111

 

Player XX, of course, was Adrian Beltre, who eight years ago was two years older than Hosmer's current age.

 

Hosmer may not be the most attractive free agent but the 28-year-old should be given more credit.

 

Oh, is Hosmer only looking for a 1 year deal? If so, it's a good get!

[jacksonianmarch]

Hosmer is an inconsistent player who has surprisingly posted poor marks defensively and doesn't bring even good power for the position. Stay away

[Bellhorn04]

Hosmer is only 28, though, so if you were looking at him with rose-colored glasses you might argue that some of the inconsistency was due to the learning process.

[a700hitter]

Hosmer is only 28, though, so if you were looking at him with rose-colored glasses you might argue that some of the inconsistency was due to the learning process.

He could be entering his prime.

[mvp 78]

Hosmer is only 28, though, so if you were looking at him with rose-colored glasses you might argue that some of the inconsistency was due to the learning process.

 

Peak age is only 29, so you'd get the second half of his prime I guess?

[sk7326]

Oh, is Hosmer only looking for a 1 year deal? If so, it's a good get!

 

What is interesting is that I actually would consider offering him a 2/50 sort of contract ... give significant extra AAV for a shorter hitch and a chance for him bet on himself and be back in the market at a decent age.

[mvp 78]

What is interesting is that I actually would consider offering him a 2/50 sort of contract ... give significant extra AAV for a shorter hitch and a chance for him bet on himself and be back in the market at a decent age.

 

25M smackeroonies? No way.

[Spudboy]

Eight years ago the Red Sox took a chance on an inconsistent corner infielder who, like Eric Hosmer, had won multiple Gold Gloves. Compare that player's line at the time and Hosmer's current line:

 

XX 6877 PA, .270/.325/.453/.779, OPS+ 105

EH 4393 PA, .284/.342/.439/.781. OPS+ 111

 

Player XX, of course, was Adrian Beltre, who eight years ago was two years older than Hosmer's current age.

 

Hosmer may not be the most attractive free agent but the 28-year-old should be given more credit.

 

Beltre was the best defensive player at his position and was signed for only one year at about $10. mil.

 

Apples and oranges to compare that "chance" with signing Hosmer to a 4,5, or 6 year deal for $100. mil plus.

[Kimmi]

All I've read is that he's willing to DH for BOS.

 

I have read that also. He said that he'd prefer to play the OF, but that he was not opposed to being a DH.

[Kimmi]

The things with Hosmer (in particular) and Martinez is that Boston is the only team with both an identifiable need and a ton of money ... Boras has shown no hesitation to get into a staring contest in the past ... but the Red Sox might actually have the leverage here.

 

Agreed. Dombrowski needs to wait it out, rather than misjudging the market and overpaying.

[Kimmi]

What is interesting is that I actually would consider offering him a 2/50 sort of contract ... give significant extra AAV for a shorter hitch and a chance for him bet on himself and be back in the market at a decent age.

 

This has always been my preference, to give a higher AAV for fewer years. $25 mil a year is rather steep for Hosmer, but I like the sound of 2 years. Anyway, it seems like a moot point now.

[moonslav59]

I'm thrilled we didn't get Hosmer, but Moreland returning is very sad.

 

1B comps last 4 years

 

HRs

Moreland: 22. 23. 22, 2 (inj), 23 in 2013

EHosmer: 25, 25, 18, 9

Morrison: 38, 14, 17, 11 (under 360 PAs in 2 low years)

 

OPS

Moreland: .769, .720, .812,> .736 (2013)

EHosmer: .882, .761, .822, .716

Morrison: .868, .722, .685, .735

 

Looking at the projected contracts, Moreland looks like a steal, but if I see this guy in the 4 slot next year, I'll scream!

 

(Note: Duda has 30, 7, 27 and 30 HRs with the 7 coming in 172 PAs. His OPS has been .818, .714, .838, .830)

 

Combined 2014-2017

OPS/ISO Player HR/PAs

.818/.242 Duda 94/1813

.799/.160 Hosmer 77/2552

.762/.196 Morrison 80/1875

.755/.187 Moreland 69/1778

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by moonslav59

[Hitch]

We will sign JD and Morleand keeps Hanley from vesting.

 

That saves us next year from Hosmer's huge contract (now he's not signing) and Hanley's huge final year. That money will go into somebody big at the free agency buffet.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like it.